Loreslaughter.

[Kaleos]

With Rag and Cenarius I can understand cause even in game back in vanilla WoW they stated Rag in MC was just a shade of his true power and not his true manifestation. And with Cenarius, during the AQ opening quest line he says that Cenarius is actually alive and well fighting with him in the Emerald Dream against the Nightmare. So it's not something that was just sprung on us or thrown into the lore.

[Palladiamorsdeus]

Ryai, are you even paying attention? It isn't just about that. It's about Cenarius coming back when Ragnaros comes back when Neff comes back when Onyxia comes back when C'thun comes back when god only know's who else is going to be asspulled all during this one expansion. The past two expansion's focused on different and fairly unique characters, with only a little bit of revision for Kael and then with....gah, that instance being redone in Wrath, can't remember the name right now.

COULD he have come back? Sure, they set that up a few years ago. That's not the issue. The issue is that they've just yanked all these dead characters back to life at the same time.

[Kaleos]

Is it C'thun in the Twilight Highlands though? I know there is at least one more old god left, not including C'thun and Yogg.

[Saturo]

I'm just going to say this. What I quoted? I am damn sure existed BEFORE CATA WAS LEAKED AT ALL. So fine, I'm not even going to bother. You just want to complain and moan about something and not accept, even remotely of a micron's possibility that in all this time Cenarius might have faked his death, or he was proclaimed dead so that the demon, Mannorth would not dessecrate his body and kill the god completely. That Ysera couldn't have begged Alexstraza to do anything within her power later, to help Cenarius, or that Ysera herself hadn't done anything to protect and nurture the body, because as long as the spirit is alive there is hope. Or possibly that Cenarius regrew his form while in the emerald dream, but is now bound to it except in special instances, unable to ever truly leave it. As Ysera herself is awake and this could be tied into Cenarius, battle scarred and all, showing up in MT Hyjal and ONLY mt Hyjal where Ysera herself is now.

So I'm not even going to bother quoting lore that Blizzard made well in advance of this, leaving possibilities open because I'm tired of you even complaining about magical conch shells in a fantasy MMO.

If you don't like it, don't play the game Saturo, or don't quest in Mt Hyjal. Blizzard ain't forcing you at gunpoint to pay 2 play, it's your choice. If you don't like the retcons or evolution of open door plot holes, then don't play the game. If it's stupid, drop this MMO and go elsewhere. All I can say.

Then you misunderstood. I meant that if we both quote Wowwiki for this, we won't get an answer, because there is too much cnflicting lore there. And how are those shells related to this? Besides, at the time, and for many years after, there wasn't even a HINT at his survival. That little "excuse" doesn't really cut it, since it was added so much later. At this point, they're retconning just to bring veterans back, andit won't work, because veterans tend to know the lore enough not to fall for the stupid things like this.

[Ryai]

Ryai, are you even paying attention? It isn't just about that. It's about Cenarius coming back when Ragnaros comes back when Neff comes back when Onyxia comes back when C'thun comes back when god only know's who else is going to be asspulled all during this one expansion. The past two expansion's focused on different and fairly unique characters, with only a little bit of revision for Kael and then with....gah, that instance being redone in Wrath, can't remember the name right now.

COULD he have come back? Sure, they set that up a few years ago. That's not the issue. The issue is that they've just yanked all these dead characters back to life at the same time.

The world is exploding.

The Cheeseburger Apocolypse is upon us.

Destruction of everything is almost upon Azeroth, from within and without. Everything, everyone is scrambling to hold it together. Ofc Ysera is going to pull out the big guns cause her babies- I mean, druids, are in trouble.

Deathwing is insane, and he lost two of his most powerful children. Honestly it's not surprising he used necromancy and sorcery and probably stolen scourge apocathary's to ressurect his children. He's insane. He couldn't give a damn if they're dead or not. The only wtf with them I have is the fact that Deathwing;'s last consort who got EXPLODIFIED or something, is now returned. That, is wtf.

C'thun was NEVER killed, and I never thought he was killed. Not after what we did with Yogg-saron, bot after what the Titans did. Not after remembering what the Titans had to go through to NOT kill the old gods because of the fuckery it will cause. And even then, C'thun was defeated before by the Titans. But he slept, he grew. He recovered. Do you really think 40 people who could be 1 shot by him if not careful, could knock him down for as long as the titans did? We won the battle, not the war, with him. There's a difference.

This is not like Kael'thas Sunstrider where we killed him AND THEN HAVE TO KILL HIM AGAIN. That shit made no sense. Seriously.

And as someone said we just banished Rag from one of his points of attempting to enter the world. He was attempting to use twilight cultists and the dark iron to obtain passage or whatever into the world, more than he had. And obviously because people thought oh Raggy has been defeated lets go to outlands and etc and BLATANTLY IGNORE THE CULTISTS STILL CULTING ABOUT cause oh what can they do. They're insane.

Well evidently in WoW, insanity is the mother of all fucking evil.

Besides, at the time, and for many years after, there wasn't even a HINT at his survival.

I think it was already said by someone that Cenarius was evidently alive- atleast in a form. And besides why hint when he's not needed until now? Keal'thas wasn't even hinted I bet until TBC. Arthas was all but forgotten until Wrath for the most part. Deathwing was forgotten COMPLETELY until now.

[Saturo]

Kael'Thas was a prominent character in WC3. That's how we got a high amount of naga lore too. He existed loooong before TBC.

[Palladiamorsdeus]

You also aren't addressing the issue. I've said time after time that ressurecting Cenarius make's sense with the later established lore, but what DOESN'T make sense is so many heavy lore characters coming back at the same time. I'll even go so far as to give you Ony and Neff, since Deathwing is insane, but pulling back C'thun AND Ragnaros, not to mention whoever else might make an appearance, all in the same expansion is more then a little much. I can take a bit of lore twisting at a time, but this is all at the same time, and for no really good reason. The best you can do is call Deathwing insane. I'd have much rather seen either other lore villains make an appearance, or new villains that got a lot of screen time to make us hate them. Not "Oh look! It's Onyxia 3.0!"

[Ryai]

Kael'Thas was a prominent character in WC3. That's how we got a high amount of naga lore too. He existed loooong before TBC.

I mean ingame.

As a boss.

As any influence or possible influence for WoW. As any possible paradoxal, arcane addicted, Naaru kidnapping asshole.

Because I bet you, there was no warning until TBC came out/was leaked/was Beta'd, that Keal'thas was going to return to the game in WoW.

Just like all the others I mentioned, just like Cenarius. The only difference though, Cenarius was felled- but Mannorth seemed to appear the moment Cenarius was felled. Meaning if you're hurt, mean hurt so badly you are on the verge of death and a pitlord has come to not only gloat but enslave orcs and would happily use these enslaved orcs to kill you once and for all if you so much as twitch, what do you do? You play dead.

If it works on bears, it'll work on Pit Lords. They both seem about as equally intellegent, tho, that could be an insult to the bears.

The best you can do is call Deathwing insane.

No. That's the best Blizzard can do. Insanity is a running theme for bosses. Even C'thun and yogg-saron run that gauntlet by fucking with your head.

I'd have much rather seen either other lore villains make an appearance, or new villains that got a lot of screen time to make us hate them. Not "Oh look! It's Onyxia 3.0!"

Obviously you need to learn what I have already learned. It's the same with movies. Why risk something original when a sequal has just as good a chance as drawing in the same audiance, if not more. It's why people remake movies, because they always assume it's less risk to profit scenario or gain.

Blizzard already showed that they aren't going to go the originality route, they dropped the Emerald Dream completely, there's no hint. And even when people thought the Zep leak from TB to Org was going to mean Emerald Dream!! no. All we have is half finished quests and druids eternally fighting a nightmare that we can't do diddly about.

but pulling back C'thun AND Ragnaros, not to mention whoever else might make an appearance, all in the same expansion is more then a little much.

Already explained C'thun and Ragnaros. Deathwing, should even explain it, as the old gods are using him, to destroy the world or try to. There's also the fact that Deathwing could have pulled Raggy with him, or some of his forces to help draw Ragnaros into the world once more. And all the twilight cultists.

Mean, it's only NOW that we really get to see what happened to ALL THOSE POOR NETHERWING EGGS D:

*weep*

We're also getting a few new raid zones and dungeons anyways, mean they're only NOW getting around to putting Uldum into the game. That should kinda explain enough as it is for the fact of re-used bosses.

Honestly I could care less about that aslong as classes get fixed to something decent. I've already become numbed to retconning as I've seen worse thanks to Worgen actually being fanatical druids of Lo'gash/Goldrinn who oh by the way is still alive, and well.

[Palladiamorsdeus]

You do quests involving Goldrinn! .....you uh....probably are going to hit me now......

[Ryai]

You do quests involving Goldrinn! .....you uh....probably are going to hit me now......

No I want to hit blizzard for ruining the one original use of WOLFMEN FROM OUTER SPACE/ANOTHER DIMENSION *cry*

Oh they're really crazy druids who can turn you into crazy wolf men who can also turn into wolves and they were originally all asleep under a tree because of something something involving Goldrinn but then Elune gave this magic stick to a night elf and the horrors were unleashed and oh by the way you know Arugal? He's actually trying to be an anti-hero now and was trying to keep the worgen all confined to SFK and yada yada....

It's why I'm much more accepting of Cenarius. Because there was plot left open door'd for him.

[Palladiamorsdeus]

Wait, they retconned all that that heavily? Even Arugal? God, shoot me now.....

[Redith]

.....I like cookies.......Just thought you should know

[Palladiamorsdeus]

The sad thing is, I've played through the worgen area now. I got the whole Goldrinn thing when I was there, but I didn't think they were trying to say she summoned THOSE worgen with the scythe. I thought they might have just been formed up of worgen who'd come to their senses......now, I am in pain.

[Kayb]

.....I like cookies.......Just thought you should know

^^ omg me too!

[Kalliope]

This really is turning into something like All my Circuits, Calculon's show in Futurama... Everyone gets amnesia, or fakes their deaths, or have multiple personalities, and so forth. Plain stupid, in other words.

Stupid, but entertaining.

Can the lore people please return to their respective corners, take deep breaths, and count to 20 before posting? Yes, you're passionate in your views and are entitled to debate the points, but tensions are starting to run a bit too high.

Thanks!

[Lazuly]

Gods, by definition, can't be killed.

Even when we kill loa like Hakkar, it's clearly said they are not -really- dead... that there is an original plane they live in while only borrowing physical bodies to live in the 'real world'. Cenarius' soul was still alive in the Emerald Dream, and probably Malorne's too. Though it generally takes a lot of power to summon a god into the physical realm (as those who summoned Hakkar/Ragnaros found out).

[Shinryu Masaki]

*cough*

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/communit ... y.html#314

...

what?

>.>;

[cowmuflage]

Anit Onyxia, Neffie comeing back as zombies? i don't see how thats wrong its not the two are 100% back I;e not the same skin used.

[Lazuly]

Anit Onyxia, Neffie comeing back as zombies? i don't see how thats wrong its not the two are 100% back I;e not the same skin used.

Yeah, I don't get how's it's unbelievable that Ony and Nef could be brought back as undead. There are tons of zombie dragons in Northrend, after all.

[Saturo]

Gods, by definition, can't be killed.

Cenarius ain't a god.

Onyxia and Nef I'm fine with having back. But they're also bringing back C'Thul, Ragnaros and Cenarius. It's a bittoo much for one single time, don't you think?