Guild Leveling and Rewards - Blue Posts

[Rhyela]

Then I have to ask: Is having Invincible drop from LK 25-man Heroic unfair? There's a whopping three people with it on my server, maybe four if I've missed one. Is having a special top-tier arena mount unfair? Those could be called "certain" rewards. They're incredibly difficult to get and there's a very select few who will get them, and I'm certainly not one of them. Is that unfair? Do you want Invincible to drop off of Hogger? I would hate this game if they made everything available to everyone.

I'm having a hard time understandng what's so unfair. There have ALWAYS been rewards that most people can't get. Do you (speaking in general) want every single mount, minipet, weapon, piece of gear, etc. available to every single individual regardless of guild, experience, dedication, and effort? I would have to disagree with that.

I do not expect Blizzard to cater to every individual that plays this game. They cannot just hand everything out because the most casual of the player base feels they're being neglected. There has to be some incentive to being in those top-end guilds, or to working your hiney off to complete those intense achievements. It's really a small amount of rewards you're missing out on - the shiniest of the shiny, so to speak, but it's ALWAYS been that way. I'm sure even small guilds will have access to some really nice stuff, it'll just take a little while longer. Will you be able to get anything and everything your heart could ever dream of? No, but you can't expect to have everything you want, either. Someone, somewhere, is going to feel jipped no matter what they do. They can't please everyone.

So please, really read the guild stuff and try to realize that they are doing their best to help out the vast majority of guilds, and give out goodies to as many people as possible. We may not all be flying around on dark phoenixes because we're rewarded for logging on WoW, but I know we'll all have access to something nice, whether it's a minipet, a mount, or whatever. (And come on, let's face it, there are TONS and TOOONS of minipets and mounts in this game, is not having one or two reeeeally going to ruin the game for you?)

[Vephriel]

I couldn't have said it better myself, Rhyela. I'm equally confused as to why this is 'unfair'. I understand that some of the high end rewards might be desirable but unobtainable to those who aren't in large guilds, however that doesn't make it unfair. Blizzard has purposely allocated different types of rewards for different tiers of guilds and players. There should be a distinction like that because those large guilds that work hard to earn their benefits should be able to display proof of that.

I've certainly never been in a high end guild, Petopia is the largest I've been a member of. I would love to have that Dark Phoenix, but at the end of the day I understand that if I can't get it, no biggie. I equally don't expect to be able to obtain the awesome mounts from Arena Tournaments and such because I don't participate in them. It's really as simple as that.

Calling it unfair seems more like sour grapes than anything else.

[Ariamodasu]

Just to make it clear, I have no problem with things I cannot get at (Like a horse with very dodgy legs) otherwise with the stupid amount of times Baron has denied me I would have given up by now. I'm personally happy to slowly inch my way up to whatever the hell I'm after and accept there's things I can't, tis life. All I want to know is where I stand, nothing else.

You know it's wierd really, the raid drop mounts bar A'lar (Which is <3 but I sadly suffered a lot of connection problems about that time which furstratingly is how I missed out on the Warbear since Blizzard refused to acknowledge the problem) I don't even seem to like Oo Okay I love the ZG too and I was raiding there in Vanilla but was no sign, go figure.

[Vephriel]

Also, the Blue Post quoted in the original post of the topic did not include the question that it was answering. It doesn't change anything, but I think reading the blue post with this in mind gives more perspective.

Does anyone else (think that the Dark Phoenix mount) reward seems a bit too ... amazing to be given out for free to anybody who joins a guild?

The Phoenix is easily one of the rarest and most desired mounts in the entire game. I know of several groups that run Tempest Keep weekly just for a minuscule chance of obtaining this thing. People on my server form groups just to pay others 200k gold if the mount drops.

Why is a near-clone of this amazing mount being given out to everybody who joins a guild that has been around for a small amount of time?

If you keep putting neat mounts like Celestial Steeds and Phoenixes available to anyone with the slightest bit of effort, then what incentive (mount-wise) is there for the majority of your playerbase to tackle challenging content? Why should I go and get the next new raid mount from doing the hardest heroic modes when I will get a significantly cooler mount by clicking "Accept" on a guild invite and waiting a few days/weeks until my reputation is high enough? For that matter, why would I bother to run any holiday content or strive for any other mounts in non-raiding areas of the game when I can just use the Dark Phoenix?

I feel that the flying mount reward for being in a guild should be more in line with the Lion mount. You see lions everywhere. Sure, the mount is neat, but it's nothing compared to the rare raid land mounts like the Amani Warbear and Invincible, or the rare holiday mounts.

[Shinryu Masaki]

This sounds really nice! Having the phoenix require the legendaries is a brilliant idea, at least for really old guilds. We have a few people who haven't been on in ages who have those legendaries in their banks, so assuming it's rewarded retroactively we'll have a phoenix in notime!

And as said, making a guild requires ten signatures. That's what Blizz would consider a minimal guild. Saying that your threeperson guild deserves all this too is wrong Ryai. Blizzard don't consider guilds that small actual guilds. It's been clear all along.

The legendaries achievement is not required to get the Dark Phoenix, it was just used as an example. Also, already existing legendary items are not retroactively accountable for the achievement. You need to get them after the new guild system is in place. =/

[Saturo]

Also, already existing legendary items are not retroactively accountable for the achievement. You need to get them after the new guild system is in place. =/

Well that sucks!

[Mindsprocket]

Thanks Veph, that post really shows the heart of the matter: incentive.

For those who think it's unfair, imagine it was the other way round. Imagine you were in a strong guild, working hard and going out of your way for difficult achievements. Wouldn't you want a reward for that? Something that acknowledges your efforts? Of course you would. It wouldn't be much of reward for your hard work if you just got something that you could as well have gotten in an easier way, would it? It can't just be "if something's so difficult that not everyone can do it then no-one should be rewarded for doing it". It's necessary to have special rewards for special achievements, otherwise nobody would have any reason to achieve anything.

As I said, I'm not in such a guild myself. But just because I'm not willing to make such efforts that doesn't mean I don't want others to be rewarded for theirs.

[Vephriel]

Exactly. It's like an Olympic Medal, or something of a similar caliber. They don't just hand those out on the street. You have to work hard to achieve one and it's something you get as a show of your dedication. I'm not trying to make some deep metaphor, just using it quickly as an example. I think it's unrealistic to expect the same level of rewards for two vastly different types of Guild activity.

[Nevar]

Honestly, on my main server there will probably TWO guilds with the phoenix mounts and they are the top two guilds who never recruit really because they've had the same members since they started so getting in is like 0 to..1 . However the phoenix is nice and yes I'd like to have it but if I have to raid everything and be the best in everything to get the lion mount..then I wont be happy >< (I want it more than the phoenix and with my guild falling apart is like...ugh)

[Rhyela]

Nevar, it all comes down to what YOU are willing to do to obtain that mount, then. You can be unhappy about it all you want, but you have to decide whether or not it is that important to you. I would really, really LOVE to have Invincible, it is quite possibly one of the baddest mounts in the game (gimpy legs and all). But I am not willing to spend 7 days a week raiding with strict guilds to get it. But honestly, I'm not unhappy about that, either. I say more power to them, and grats to them for being willing to endure the challenges and headaches that comes with obtaining something like that. If you really wanted it that badly, you would have to decide that you'd do what it takes to get it, even if it meant xferring servers to join a recruiting, top-end guild. You have that option, it's up to you to take it. If you can't or won't go through that, then there's not much anyone can do to help you. But just because you happen to like the lion doesn't make it unfair that it may require a lot more dedication or time or effort to get it, and that you may not ever get it. You seem to be taking it personally almost, which you can't do. Just try to find another mount you'll be happy with and use that instead. For me, it's Anzu (man I love that bird). It's going to take a long time to get, but it's the kind of challenge I'm willing to put up with. Invincible?...not so much. I'll just admire it from afar on the steps of the Dalaran bank (darn you, Midwinter, darn you! )

But saying Blizz is being unfair by making a mount you happen to like a little harder to get is kind of unjustified. They are doing a lot by making many, many things available to all walks of life, so to speak. Even things like proto-drakes and regular drakes and mini-pets. Some take more or less time than others, but there is at least one type available to everyone (green proto from eggs, bronze drake from a heroic, etc.). You just have to decide what you're willing to go through to get what you want, and you can't blame your guild situation on Blizzard, either.

Still luv ya, but just try to look at it from all angles.

[Kalliope]

Nevar, it all comes down to what YOU are willing to do to obtain that mount, then. You can be unhappy about it all you want, but you have to decide whether or not it is that important to you.

Yep. This is always how it's been.

I'm actually curious as to how cross-guild runs will work now. Just because an 8/10 run would give the eight credit, the two wouldn't get it. So yeah....I expect we'll see guilds merging and such. :/

[Palladiamorsdeus]

I pretty much agree with Ryai on this. I've always been a member of smaller guilds, it's just more comfortable for me. I don't think it's unreasonable to have guild experience be rewarded for having at least two people from the same guild in a run, just reward them with less experience.

That being said, there are other ways to earn experience that don't even involve running instances or dungeons, so you can still level a guild. It'll just take longer.

[Ariamodasu]

I pretty much agree with Ryai on this. I've always been a member of smaller guilds, it's just more comfortable for me. I don't think it's unreasonable to have guild experience be rewarded for having at least two people from the same guild in a run, just reward them with less experience.

That being said, there are other ways to earn experience that don't even involve running instances or dungeons, so you can still level a guild. It'll just take longer.

Indeed, hence I want to know what the stand is on instance boosting and do ALL quests of all colours count as that really will be what hinges it. I can hope it will be greys as well but I'd rather see them state, yup those too. Not that I'll have many quests left over at the rate I'm going.

[Palladiamorsdeus]

As far as I am aware, it's based on the amount of experience you get for the quest. You get a certain percentage of quest experience as guild experience. Even if it's not enough of a percentage to be a point's worth, I think I remember hearing. So I think grey's would still count too, as would dailies.

[Ariamodasu]

Well dailies they already confirmed so thats good, if they even do SOMETHING to help inch up the exp (If highly reduced compared to a yellow+ but that should be expected) that'll be good enough for me though bet there's a few Loremasters/Seekers going GODAMNIT now lol. I know I am though maybe Silverpine quests providing it doesn't explode might finally get a use in life.

[Tahlian]

The way these guild rewards are going to be implemented is a bit of a concern for me. Feathermoon is somewhat unique in its culture in that for us, multi-guild raiding alliances are very, very common, with single-guild raids being less common. This is most likely because we're an RP server. I mean, from an in-character perspective, there are several characters in my raid that Tahlian can tolerate well enough to work with for 3 hours a night two days a week. But if he were guilded with them? They'd be trying to kill each other before a week was out.

Just seems a little odd that I should be forced to shoehorn my character into a guild situation neither he nor I (nor probably several other of the characters involved) would be really happy with to earn some of these benefits. But then, I guess FM is just a weird mutant server that way, so your mileage may vary.

[Shinryu Masaki]

Also, already existing legendary items are not retroactively accountable for the achievement. You need to get them after the new guild system is in place. =/

Well that sucks!

I agree. While I'm guessing this is to prevent people to join guilds just so they can get credit for having a member that has a legendary weapon, it's going to be really annoying to go back and get those all over again.

[Ryai]

I pretty much agree with Ryai on this. I've always been a member of smaller guilds, it's just more comfortable for me. I don't think it's unreasonable to have guild experience be rewarded for having at least two people from the same guild in a run, just reward them with less experience.

That being said, there are other ways to earn experience that don't even involve running instances or dungeons, so you can still level a guild. It'll just take longer.

Thank you Palla, for being like the ONLY ONE TO READ what I wrote, without imediately claiming I was bitching for a free Dark Phoenix, wanting a Phoenix without the work, or anything of the sort, when I was crying foul on one aspect of one unit of measurement for leveling a guild.

To everyone else that seemed to jump the gun and put words in my mouth that I evidently, was wanting a free ride for a Phoenix? Or telling me to abandon my guild, or calling me subtly worthless for being in a small guild or insulting my friends because we aren't a real guild?

Well if that's what this system makes you all act, honestly I am just going to leave Petopia because while I do have moments of jumping the gun and doing it badly mind you, never have I seen so many jump the gun and never really read the original post it seems.

Here let me quote it for you to show it was never about the phoenix.

That's the problem. Because Blizzard expects most guilds to be large enough for 10 mans.

So where are we going to get the spare 1-2 people?

That's what sucks. That you need Four out of five in a run. Instead of atleast two.

It's a dungeon for christ sake not a raid.

So thank you everyone, for making me feel like I was worthless because I was complaining about one thing and am in a small guild :D This is just what Petopia is all about!

ciao

[Kalliope]

Thank you Palla, for being like the ONLY ONE TO READ what I wrote, without imediately claiming I was bitching for a free Dark Phoenix, wanting a Phoenix without the work, or anything of the sort, when I was crying foul on one aspect of one unit of measurement for leveling a guild.

Hey now, I emphathized.

I still have misgivings with this system because the players in the minority miss out on a portion of the benefits for their efforts unless they choose to join the guild they're running with. After all, they're doing the same amount of work as the rest of the group; why shouldn't they also get the additional perks? Blizzard could possibly extend an option for two guilds to do joint runs, though that might get complicated.

I guess in the end, Blizzard decided that even the smallest guilds will get points from questing and such, so they won't fall completely through the cracks.

[Mockingbird]

So thank you everyone, for making me feel like I was worthless because I was complaining about one thing and am in a small guild This is just what Petopia is all about!

ciao

Actually, I don't see anyone suggesting you were asking for a free phoenix or anything of the sort.

This reaction is a little un-necessary, and I think I can speak for pretty much everyone in this thread saying DON'T GO.

Having people with different opinions around on forums is always better, and whether you agree with us or not, nobody has levelled a personal attack at you that I can see. I'd much rather you stick around and keep discussing this with us!

The specific part of your post is that you think 3/5 is more appropriate for dungeon runs than 4/5, and that you compared it to the 6/10 required for the 10-man raids, correct?

Well the thing is, 5-man dungeons are easier, quicker, and importantly, there are many, many more of them. In my opinion this justifies the slightly higher % needed to call it a guild run.

As for this:

Or telling me to abandon my guild, or calling me subtly worthless for being in a small guild or insulting my friends because we aren't a real guild?

I see literally nobody doing that. Honestly, I know it can be annoying online when it fels like you are under attack, but on this occasion I really think people are disagreeing with your position reasonably, and are not having a go at you personally, or your guild or friends. It's a game and we all play it as we enjoy, there's no right or wrong way.