Blizzard's Cataclysm reasoning with Exotics.

[Worba]

I think what the OP is saying that instead of having wolves as a must have pet for raids. Now if your raid is misisng a buff or debuff you'll have to use the pet that will supply it instead of using the pet you love. If you have a more even raid it would make it so much more easier but not every raid has that. So instead our pets who we love will not be a stat stick for us (as some hunters veiw there wolves) but instead a stat stick for the raid. And a hardcore raiding I am going to be finding myself having to tame a wide variety of pets I may not even like because of how it may help the raid. All the hunters in my guild are either never on, or will be changing to a different class come cata. So my stable slots are going to get full pretty fast.. and even with the level increase to pets... level 25 pets in time for a raid is.. scary lol

I am still excited about the possibilities its just.. I am also worried that I may now instead of using a pet I love and wanna use. Ill have to switch it out for something else.. and as a raider and guildee I understand this and am now ok with it.

I was responding to the OP's comment about the DPS component being removed and thus causing pet special ability descriptions (like wasp sting et al) to now look a little odd at first glance.

In re: having to tame a wide variety of pets for raid utility... if you agree that no one pet should be "the" raid pet a la wolves, then spreading raid utility across the ferocity tree and thereby forcing raid hunters to diversify would be the alternative...

And as others have already commented, that's really only for smaller raids - once you get up to a 25 man, you generally will be able to bring any pet you want since the "basics" probably already will be covered (by the classes who do them best).

[Shandorei]

It's not really a nerf*. In many cases, the attack's damage was subpar to their Basic Attack's damage - Wind Serpents were better off with Lightning turned off. The Exotics are also a lot better in some situations (read: Core Hounds have bloodlust).

*depending on the pet - SB's, crocks, bears, and warp stalkers are arguably nerfed.

But still -most- of them was better of with the abilities turned on.

I consider this a nerf, I just hope they try to keep most animations of the spells... I mean having some dust blow out to increase damage taken or just decrease armor...

It just sounds
so
...
...
...
lame.

[Kalliope]

Really, I don't see the point of complaining about it. Blizzard could've been total asses and said "No more abilities period! Whats in the tree is what you get!"

I ask the complainers....would you rather that instead where pets didnt get to be a little unique then?

Always remember before complaining.....it could be worse.

I really have to point out how wrong this is. Pet abilities are not unique right now. At all. They are shared buffs, debuffs, and in one special case a heal from other classes. Our pet's just got LESS unique, not more so.

Oh yes, our pets are less unique because they don't have their damage skills. Or are they? Let's do a breakdown of the pre-patch skills:

Acid Spit = Sunder Armor
Bad Attitude = Retaliation
Demoralizing Screech = Demoralizing Shout/Demoralizing Roar
Dust Cloud = Scorpid Sting
Fire Breath = Fireball
Froststorm Breath = Frostfire Bolt
Furious Howl = an extra Battle Shout/Blessing of Might
Gore = straight damage
Lava Breath = Curse of Tongues
Lightning Breath = Lightning Bolt
Monstrous Bite = Rabid
Nether Shock = Wind Shear
Pin = Entangling Roots
Poison Spit = Curse of Tongues
Prowl = Prowl
Pummel = Pummel
Rake = Rake
Ravage = Maim
Savage Rend = Rend
Scorpid Poison = Scorpid Sting
Serenity Dust = Hysteria with a health gain
Shell Shield = Divine Protection
Snatch = Disarm
Sonic Blast = Maim
Spirit Strike = Moonfire
Spore Cloud = Consecration+Expose Armor
Stampede = Mangle
Sting = Faerie Fire
Swipe = Swipe
Tendon Rip = Hamstring/Wing Clip
Venom Web Spray = Entangling Roots
Warp = Shadowstep+Evasion
Web = Improved Hamstring

Not looking so unique now, are they? The truly unique abilities that don't have a real equivalent are vastly outnumbered by the direct copies.

There was a better answer then this. Giving each family one damage dealing ability, all of which did roughly the same amount of damage, and one buff or debuff.

All of the damage dealing abilities would end up looking quite similar, since Blizzard was having trouble balancing the different types of damage dealing abilities to begin with. So Blizzard acknowledged this problem and cut out the shinier pet family damage abilities in favor of the plain vanilla basic pet damage abilities, which they KNEW they could balance.

Sorry I can't remember who said it, but whoever said that "This was easier for Blizzard." had it spot on.

That would be me. And just because it's easier, that does NOT make it the incorrect course of action from a programming standpoint. If Blizzard went through each pet family and renamed Bite/Claw/Smack to a family-themed ability, would you be satisfied? It's just window dressing.

[Sarayana]

I don't understand why people are upset that the direct damage abilities are being removed. Our pets don't do less damage because of it (unless Blizz decides to adjust the baseline damage for pets), they just don't have superfluous skills that, like Kalli said, are window dressing (not to mention, more to spend focus on).

[Lisaara]

I don't understand why people are upset that the direct damage abilities are being removed. Our pets don't do less damage because of it (unless Blizz decides to adjust the baseline damage for pets), they just don't have superfluous skills that, like Kalli said, are window dressing (not to mention, more to spend focus on).

QFT. Not to mention, the damage dealing abilities is not where most of the DPS came from.

[FuzzyDolly]

IMO, it's going to be NO different than it is now. Now people HAVE to bring wolves. Soon people will HAVE to bring a certain pet to fill a buff. We still won't get to bring the pet WE want. I'd rather have every ability available to every pet as a talent. Then we could spec a spirit beast as a buff, or a core hound as a debuff, or an owl as a healer, or anything as anything, and bring the pet we want to bring. I'd be happy to visit the PET trainer and spec my pets into the buff/debuff I want. We'll have to specc the 20 in th estables when we pull them out anyway, so what's the difference?

[Lisaara]

Fuzzy, even if that was the truth, I'd still bring what I want and if people dont like it, then they are a failgroup to begin with for telling me how to play MY hunter that I paid a subscription to play as.

[PorrasouxRex]

I don't understand why people are upset that the direct damage abilities are being removed. Our pets don't do less damage because of it (unless Blizz decides to adjust the baseline damage for pets), they just don't have superfluous skills that, like Kalli said, are window dressing (not to mention, more to spend focus on).

QFT. Not to mention, the damage dealing abilities is not where most of the DPS came from.

Let's look at the other pets the other classes can use. They don't have talent trees, but really don't need to and the hunter pet talents were a silly idea to increase % of whatever you choose. Considering pets will be getting 100% of our stats it's pointless. Rabid didn't increase alot of my pet's DPS and CotW should be used by all pets, including alot of other talent skills. What I'm getting at is our pets are also getting less "Shiny" looking for the sake of balance. Don't lie and admit some of you miss Rhino Bowling before it was turned into "Increased Bleed damage that doesn't make sense for a soloing tank pet to use, when both don't have any bleed damage spells, and MM couldn't use Rhinos anyway."

[Lisaara]

*glances to Loque'nahak* No he's still fairly shiny. I don't care what other people think. He's shiny in MY eyes and THAT is what's important and you should take to heart.

[Worba]

Soon people will HAVE to bring a certain pet to fill a buff. We still won't get to bring the pet WE want.

I disagree. We are a ranged DPS class. The only reason we have to take wolves currently is to ensure we're bringing our best DPS to the raid.

In cata we will be gaining limited utility value, sure, but only as stand ins for the other classes - our core role will always be rdps and people aren't going to start snubbing hunters lacking choice pet utilities but accepting rogues with the same DPS output.

TL/DR: even if your ferocity pet's utility spell isn't perfect for that particular raid, you will still rate as basic rdps... and if your pet happens to have a utility for a role that's underrepresented in the raid, then you will have an edge over fury warriors and rogues...

[Knobhead]

Now people HAVE to bring wolves. Soon people will HAVE to bring a certain pet to fill a buff. We still won't get to bring the pet WE want.

This will probably be true on the hardest boss of the most cutting edge content, but most of the time it shouldn't be an issue.

[Lisaara]

Now people HAVE to bring wolves. Soon people will HAVE to bring a certain pet to fill a buff. We still won't get to bring the pet WE want.

This will probably be true on the hardest boss of the most cutting edge content, but most of the time it shouldn't be an issue.

Yeah I can see this if you're in a super duper hardcore raiding guild.

But I'd imagine most hunters are never going to be in that situation so we will get to bring what we want. I've come to know if you got a really good raiding group, they dont care what you bring. My ICC25 has a BM hunter and an SV hunter. They have told me they'd rather bring these two that know WTF they're doing rather than a high dps MM that stands in Marrowgar's fire.

[Worba]

Now people HAVE to bring wolves. Soon people will HAVE to bring a certain pet to fill a buff. We still won't get to bring the pet WE want.

This will probably be true on the hardest boss of the most cutting edge content, but most of the time it shouldn't be an issue.

Yeah I can see this if you're in a super duper hardcore raiding guild.

But I'd imagine most hunters are never going to be in that situation so we will get to bring what we want. I've come to know if you got a really good raiding group, they dont care what you bring. My ICC25 has a BM hunter and an SV hunter. They have told me they'd rather bring these two that know WTF they're doing rather than a high dps MM that stands in Marrowgar's fire.

Demonstrating knowledge of the fight (e.g. whispering the achievement) and GS are usually the only reqs for a blind invite... showing up without a wolf may get you kicked but normally once you're in they just expect you to put out good DPS and not stand in fires.

In cata I suspect it will be much the same; you may be able to finagle your way in ahead of other hunters if there is a need for your pet's utility spell and you are good at marketing it but generally I think it's still going to come down to DPS and knowing the fights - anything else is just going to be gravy (especially in a large raid).

[Renle]

Which is why Core Hounds will be loved by raids with no shamans. Feels like wolves all over again, but with favoring buffs to the raid.

Mages will also have a BL type ability. I quite frankly don't foresee my raid leads turning to me very often and asking for the corehound ;P

Now people HAVE to bring wolves. Soon people will HAVE to bring a certain pet to fill a buff. We still won't get to bring the pet WE want.

Once again people, you need to look at the list that GC posted on raid buffs. There will be more then one class offering the same raid buff, with the extra option of hunter pets bringing a weaker version of the buffs. It will be rare, and far between when we are actually required to bring out a pet for a particular buff in raids I'm thinking. So quit the doom-and gloom. You can raid with whatever pet you want >.>

[Gimlion]

Just because they took out the damage components of abilities doesn't take away any of the 'flavor' in them, which is what you truly seem concerned about. In fact what they did was add even more flavor with all these buffs going around. Cooler flavor in ability choice, same, if not more damage as before, and A great deal of choice seeing as each pet will do the same dps if specced the same, within each family. I don't see how this could be taken a bad way. Granted there are a few pets that I do think got nerfed a bit, like Warpstalkers and Crocs, but this was the only way to truly make any pet viable, without making them bland and boring, at least with the situation we have atm.

[Ellaran]

Core Hounds are not going to be the Wolves of Cata. Why? Because their special operates the exact same way the Shaman's does, so we're not gonna have five hunters with five Hounds alternating Bloodlust/Heroism. Hell, you can use the Core Hound for that, then put him away and bring out a pet that has other abilities to offer.

We now have a HUGE variety of pets that can and will be useful for raiding for a variety of situations. Yes, in a 25-man the important stuff is gonna be taken care of (most likely), but you what? We can still interrupt caster mobs with our Moths, Gorillas and Nether Rays. We can still slow, snare and stun runners with our Crocolisks, Wasps, Chimaeras and Warp Stalkers. Classes who love bleeds will love our Rhinos and Boars for making their bleeds hurt more. And the damage reduction of bears, the armor reduction of Raptors, the magic damage increase of Dragonhawks... good god, I don't know where to start with taming and raising pets.

Hunters can actually do more than just stand back with a Wolf and pew-pew nonstop. We, and our faithful companions, have a plethora of options and abilities, and we now have a variety of creatures to take.

[Vephriel]

Core Hounds are not going to be the Wolves of Cata. Why? Because their special operates the exact same way the Shaman's does, so we're not gonna have five hunters with five Hounds alternating Bloodlust/Heroism. Hell, you can use the Core Hound for that, then put him away and bring out a pet that has other abilities to offer.

We now have a HUGE variety of pets that can and will be useful for raiding for a variety of situations. Yes, in a 25-man the important stuff is gonna be taken care of (most likely), but you what? We can still interrupt caster mobs with our Moths, Gorillas and Nether Rays. We can still slow, snare and stun runners with our Crocolisks, Wasps, Chimaeras and Warp Stalkers. Classes who love bleeds will love our Rhinos and Boars for making their bleeds hurt more. And the damage reduction of bears, the armor reduction of Raptors, the magic damage increase of Dragonhawks... good god, I don't know where to start with taming and raising pets.

Hunters can actually do more than just stand back with a Wolf and pew-pew nonstop. We, and our faithful companions, have a plethora of options and abilities, and we now have a variety of creatures to take.

I love the way you put everything here. ^^ I definitely agree with you.

[Sarayana]

Core Hounds are not going to be the Wolves of Cata. Why? Because their special operates the exact same way the Shaman's does, so we're not gonna have five hunters with five Hounds alternating Bloodlust/Heroism. Hell, you can use the Core Hound for that, then put him away and bring out a pet that has other abilities to offer.

We now have a HUGE variety of pets that can and will be useful for raiding for a variety of situations. Yes, in a 25-man the important stuff is gonna be taken care of (most likely), but you what? We can still interrupt caster mobs with our Moths, Gorillas and Nether Rays. We can still slow, snare and stun runners with our Crocolisks, Wasps, Chimaeras and Warp Stalkers. Classes who love bleeds will love our Rhinos and Boars for making their bleeds hurt more. And the damage reduction of bears, the armor reduction of Raptors, the magic damage increase of Dragonhawks... good god, I don't know where to start with taming and raising pets.

Hunters can actually do more than just stand back with a Wolf and pew-pew nonstop. We, and our faithful companions, have a plethora of options and abilities, and we now have a variety of creatures to take.

I love the way you put everything here. ^^ I definitely agree with you.

Me too.

[Renle]

Core Hounds are not going to be the Wolves of Cata. Why? Because their special operates the exact same way the Shaman's does, so we're not gonna have five hunters with five Hounds alternating Bloodlust/Heroism. Hell, you can use the Core Hound for that, then put him away and bring out a pet that has other abilities to offer.

We now have a HUGE variety of pets that can and will be useful for raiding for a variety of situations. Yes, in a 25-man the important stuff is gonna be taken care of (most likely), but you what? We can still interrupt caster mobs with our Moths, Gorillas and Nether Rays. We can still slow, snare and stun runners with our Crocolisks, Wasps, Chimaeras and Warp Stalkers. Classes who love bleeds will love our Rhinos and Boars for making their bleeds hurt more. And the damage reduction of bears, the armor reduction of Raptors, the magic damage increase of Dragonhawks... good god, I don't know where to start with taming and raising pets.

Hunters can actually do more than just stand back with a Wolf and pew-pew nonstop. We, and our faithful companions, have a plethora of options and abilities, and we now have a variety of creatures to take.

Ditto pretty much ;P

The only thing that's concerned me so far is that it doesn't seem as if any tenacity pets have AoE attacks beside their thunder stomp ability now. On a soloing standpoint, even in BM it seems as if this will make it a lot harder for our pets to keep aggro on groups of mobs :/

[Lisaara]

Core Hounds are not going to be the Wolves of Cata. Why? Because their special operates the exact same way the Shaman's does, so we're not gonna have five hunters with five Hounds alternating Bloodlust/Heroism. Hell, you can use the Core Hound for that, then put him away and bring out a pet that has other abilities to offer.

We now have a HUGE variety of pets that can and will be useful for raiding for a variety of situations. Yes, in a 25-man the important stuff is gonna be taken care of (most likely), but you what? We can still interrupt caster mobs with our Moths, Gorillas and Nether Rays. We can still slow, snare and stun runners with our Crocolisks, Wasps, Chimaeras and Warp Stalkers. Classes who love bleeds will love our Rhinos and Boars for making their bleeds hurt more. And the damage reduction of bears, the armor reduction of Raptors, the magic damage increase of Dragonhawks... good god, I don't know where to start with taming and raising pets.

Hunters can actually do more than just stand back with a Wolf and pew-pew nonstop. We, and our faithful companions, have a plethora of options and abilities, and we now have a variety of creatures to take.

QFT. I think I'm gonna fourth this one.