Hello new here and got some questions

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Pent
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Re: Hello new here and got some questions

Unread post by Pent »

Worba wrote:
Taluwen wrote:The only demon-like thing we tame is the blighthound and it's only one color.
Still clearly demonic what with the burning flames on paws and mane
We can't tame the blues because they're classified as demons.
Classification can change very easily
Hell Boars currently are untameable but they aren't demons either.
These are demonic creatures and we will be able to tame them in cata.
Also those ghost spirits? They're called SPIRIT BEASTS for a reason. ;)
Not ghost sabers ...

blah blah blah blah blah blah....................

more blah blah blah....

even more blah blah blah....
The point is... we don't choose what we can tame, we choose what we tame per Blizzard's standards.

We can't even tame everything in the game that is listed as a "Beast", and we sure can't tame anything that is labeled as anything else.

If something is labeled as a "demon" (or Undead) we are not going to run out and tame it unless Blizzard decides to change the demon's class over to the beast class.

Just because we can tame things that have "Ghost" in their name, or even something that looks ethereally doesn't mean it is a ghost/spirit in Blizzard's eyes... and even if it does then Blizzard is the one that still label them as beasts... not us. Therefore, they are BEASTS.

Do NOT play semantics with me.
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Re: Hello new here and got some questions

Unread post by Raydex-of-the-dawn »

pentupanger wrote:
Worba wrote:
Taluwen wrote:The only demon-like thing we tame is the blighthound and it's only one color.
Still clearly demonic what with the burning flames on paws and mane
We can't tame the blues because they're classified as demons.
Classification can change very easily
Hell Boars currently are untameable but they aren't demons either.
These are demonic creatures and we will be able to tame them in cata.
Also those ghost spirits? They're called SPIRIT BEASTS for a reason. ;)
Not ghost sabers ...

blah blah blah blah blah blah....................

more blah blah blah....

even more blah blah blah....
The point is... we don't choose what we can tame, we choose what we tame per Blizzard's standards.

We can't even tame everything in the game that is listed as a "Beast", and we sure can't tame anything that is labeled as anything else.

If something is labeled as a "demon" (or Undead) we are not going to run out and tame it unless Blizzard decides to change the demon's class over to the beast class.

Just because we can tame things that have "Ghost" in their name, or even something that looks ethereally doesn't mean it is a ghost/spirit in Blizzard's eyes... and even if it does then Blizzard is the one that still label them as beasts... not us. Therefore, they are BEASTS.

Do NOT play semantics with me.
Ffff I'm having a hard time deleting quotes in quotes for this (so. many. stacks) so bear with me.

He was asking if they'd been CHANGED to beasts. :/ As Helboars were CHANGED to beasts, this is not an unusual question.

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Re: Hello new here and got some questions

Unread post by Pent »

Raydex-of-the-dawn wrote:
Ffff I'm having a hard time deleting quotes in quotes for this (so. many. stacks) so bear with me.

He was asking if they'd been CHANGED to beasts. :/ As Helboars were CHANGED to beasts, this is not an unusual question.
Yeah, I see that, but from what I have gathered from Worba's comment was that even though we can tame beasts we also can tame undead and demons... and when someone else said there were classified as beasts he came back and basically said, "they look like demons, so they are demons".

So what I said to his quote is still correct.

We can only tame "beasts". If a demon dog is labeled as a beast then it is a beast and not a demon.

And he is correct about Blizzard being able to change monster/pets classes easily (well... it could be easy but taming-wise probably not), but it isn't that complicated to understand... if something is labeled as something other than "beast" we aren't going to tame it til Blizzard says we can... and then whatever it is will be labeled as a beast.
"Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it is wrong. No matter how fast light travels, it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it." ~ Terry Pratchett

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Re: Hello new here and got some questions

Unread post by Acherontia »

There's no point arguing what hunters should/shouldn't/can/can't be able to tame based on looks/ideals, because for one thing--

That blue demon dog? Half of them are demons. Half are beasts. They aren't tameable, but they're beasts. And the red ones that look exactly like them ARE beasts, and ARE tameable, so if you can find a good common-sense reason, explain. One of the very first questions in this post was incorrectly answered, in fact--some of the proto-drakes in Icecrown--and elsewhere--are indeed Beasts. They aren't tameable, though.

Shooting someone down with a comment like "we're hunters, we tame beasts not undead" doesn't really explain much--WoW's classifications are not so clear-cut, by any means. This isn't semantics, it's just fact, and I think the person explaining that there are exceptions (ghostly tameables, etc) is perfectly correct.
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Re: Hello new here and got some questions

Unread post by Pent »

If it is labeled as a beast then it is a beast.

If it is a red demon wolf (labeled as beast) that looks exactly like the blue demon wolf (labeled as demon) except for the different colors... the red demon wolf is a beast and the blue demon wolf is a demon... according to Blizzard.

It is really that clear cut.

And there are no exceptions. If it isn't labeled as a beast you will not be taming it til it is.
I have also noted above that even some beasts are still untameable too... so technically if you wanted the non-tameable beasts to be the exception then fine... they can be.

If you want a ghostly looking pet then you have to tame a ghostly looking pet that is labeled as a beast.

It is semantics, and yes... it is a little bit of splitting hairs too...

People can sit here all day long and say that my Ghostly Jormungah-whatever (worm) is a ghost and technically "undead" but me being able to tame it shows that it is a beast in Blizzard's eyes... so it is a beast.

I'll apologize if the OP was just curious if there were any beasts that "looked" like <insert demon/undead mob here>, so he could tame them and I think I remember him saying as much... but for someone else to come in and say, "well so-and-so is clearly a demon/undead but we can tame them" isn't the right way to tell another hunter what can be tamed and what can't be tamed.

There are three pretty simple ways to see what is tameable and what is not... The Petopia site, Beast Lore skill, and other sites that you can browse the forums for others talking about certain mobs being tameable.
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Re: Hello new here and got some questions

Unread post by Anyia »

I sense there is some pent up anger in this thread... :)
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Re: Hello new here and got some questions

Unread post by Pent »

Anyia wrote:I sense there is some pent up anger in this thread... :)
I don't get angry.

I am stating the obvious.

(and I hear that all the time. :lol: )
"Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it is wrong. No matter how fast light travels, it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it." ~ Terry Pratchett

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Re: Hello new here and got some questions

Unread post by Worba »

pentupanger wrote:I'll apologize if the OP was just curious if there were any beasts that "looked" like <insert demon/undead mob here>, so he could tame them and I think I remember him saying as much... but for someone else to come in and say, "well so-and-so is clearly a demon/undead but we can tame them" isn't the right way to tell another hunter what can be tamed and what can't be tamed.
First of all I'm not the OP.

Second, I'M NOT THE PERSON WHO SAID XYZ CAN'T BE TAMED BECAUSE IT'S NOT A BEAST. If you read my post (from 3 weeks ago) I was responding to that person in the same fashion as your last sentence above.

The reason it is silly to tell someone "we don't tame undead" is because of the very simple and self-evident fact that Blizzard can, does and will change classification at will, and so just because something looks demonic, ghostly, skeletal or whatever does not mean it won't nonetheless become tamable at some point down the road.

Don't accuse me of playing semantics, and don't attack me for someone else's post.
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Re: Hello new here and got some questions

Unread post by Acherontia »

Worba wrote:
Taluwen wrote:1. No. They're undead. We tame beasts, not undead.
Except for undead piggies and ghost/spirit cats/wolves/bears.

And sometimes demons.

And sometimes elementals.

Etc etc.

;)

I'm talking about the first quoted comment. I found the original quote a bit harsh. The response to it was entirely accurate. The first question was asking if they had been changed to beast and made tameable, and the reply stated that they wouldn't, implying it was because they appear undead, as if the first questioner was stupid or something.

The second quoted reply gently and humorously points out that appearance doesn't mean squat. Agreed.

Then someone's getting pissy and saying "DON'T BLAH BLAH SEMANTICS BLAH BLAH AT ME" or whatever, which is just silly, because it's totally not the point. We tame beasts, yes, but shooting someone down because they asked if an undead-looking mob has been made beast + tameable is just rude. As is attempting to shoot down everyone who helpfully points out that:

* Things that look non-beastly are tameable
* Things that weren't beasts and look unbeastly have been made tameable

Consider people's feelings before you post, people, please.
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Re: Hello new here and got some questions

Unread post by Worba »

Acherontia wrote:Then someone's getting pissy and saying "DON'T BLAH BLAH SEMANTICS BLAH BLAH AT ME" or whatever, which is just silly, because it's totally not the point.
Thank you.

And it wasn't just silly, it was misdirected - even though it was the "we don't tame undead" comment we both took exception to, he went after me for it.

wtf.

It reminds me of a cat I once had - if he saw another cat outside the window, he would go into a rage and attack my other cat (who was sitting indoors next to him).
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Re: Hello new here and got some questions

Unread post by Pent »

Worba wrote:
pentupanger wrote:I'll apologize if the OP was just curious if there were any beasts that "looked" like <insert demon/undead mob here>, so he could tame them and I think I remember him saying as much... but for someone else to come in and say, "well so-and-so is clearly a demon/undead but we can tame them" isn't the right way to tell another hunter what can be tamed and what can't be tamed.
First of all I'm not the OP.

Second, I'M NOT THE PERSON WHO SAID XYZ CAN'T BE TAMED BECAUSE IT'S NOT A BEAST. If you read my post (from 3 weeks ago) I was responding to that person in the same fashion as your last sentence above.

The reason it is silly to tell someone "we don't tame undead" is because of the very simple and self-evident fact that Blizzard can, does and will change classification at will, and so just because something looks demonic, ghostly, skeletal or whatever does not mean it won't nonetheless become tamable at some point down the road.

Don't accuse me of playing semantics, and don't attack me for someone else's post.
I wasn't apologizing to you anyway right then... I was apologizing to the OP.

I don't go around hunting down everyone's previous posts from other threads to make sure at some point in time they didn't say the same thing as I did.

I "attacked" (as you put it) the post that you were quoting someone else replying to them. You were answering their questions but in a way that I took a stance against. From what I remember (I am not going to go up and read exactly what was said, and I am fighting the flu right now so I am not totally right in the head right now), you said something about how we can tame certain creatures that were clearly not beasts...

I came back saying they were beasts, because we could tame them and we can only tame "beasts" per Blizzard's standard.

Let me give an example on how I see this whole thread:

Whoever: The red demon wolf can be tamed but you can tell just by looking at it that it is a demon.
Me: No, if it was a demon we couldn't tame it. It is a beast.
Whoever: No, it is clearly a demon labeled as a beast and that is why we can tame it.
Me: It is still a beast!

Now, I don't really see how this got blown out of proportion and how everyone thinks I am the one doing the "raging". Trust me, I am not even close to being angry, and I am seriously not trolling.

I'll be the first one to apologize to everyone who has said anything on this thread, especially if I just misread something and then started a whole slew of backlash from my comments on whatever I misread.

It has came to a point though that I really don't even remember what the whole deal was anyway... when I first read the OP I thought he was asking if certain creatures could be tamed and when it was pointed out that the creatures were undead. Then someone else stated that we have the creatures out there that look like undead/demon/elementals and we can tame them.... this is when I started in saying we can tame most things that are labeled as beasts even if they didn't look like "beasts". Semantics came into play when someone mentioned that although something was labeled as a beast... if it looked undead then it was undead.... even though it was labeled as a beast. (there were other instances of semantics, but I think you get what I am talking about.)

That's how I remember the thread. If I misread something or even took something out of context then let me apologize to whoever needs it.

Furthermore, I'll apologize to whoever else that reads the thread, because I really did not mean to be taken so seriously over something like "a beast is a beast is a beast" type of thing.

I actually think that most of this thread's "hot spots" were just miscommunications between a few people who knew what they were saying but just wasn't clicking with each other.
"Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it is wrong. No matter how fast light travels, it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it." ~ Terry Pratchett

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Re: Hello new here and got some questions

Unread post by Pent »

OK... I see now... I seriously didn't realize that this thread started 3-4 weeks ago and the OP actually necroed it back...

It didn't even dawn on me that I quoted from a post that was that old.

I am not sure if it changes anything, but I'll admit my mistake on the timeline of things.

I apologize and I vote to have this thread locked.

To the OP... start a new thread next time, heh.
"Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it is wrong. No matter how fast light travels, it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it." ~ Terry Pratchett

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