Discussion of Inappropriate Content

[TygerDarkstorm]

In my opinion, this is a forum about hunters, hunter pets, and non-combat pets - as such, nothing that does not relate to that topic belongs here.

I feel the same way about the professional forums where I participate. There's no need to bring up discussion about topics unrelated to the focus of the forum.

Forum users have other avenues if they really need to discuss those issues.

It doesn't mean I have never participated in any off-topic discussions, I have. My preference is for forums to remain focused on their particular topic.

By that logic, a HUGE chunk of the forums would be destroyed. Making a bunch of the people who actively participate in those parts of the forums angry is probably an un-wise decision. Mania put those boards there in the first place so I imagine she's okay with non-huntery stuff being here.

[Silivren]

I'd stick to if your unsure PM Mania about it, I see no problem with nudity tbh as long as its tasteful and thats saying no hardcore porn style pics of any kind... My friend has drawn a wonderful picture of her blood elf huntress bathing in the Basin River while her Krush sunbathes on the beach, that I consider tasteful.. Theres far too much censorship for my tastes these days I mean I cant stand when a favorite song of mine on the radio is destroyed because of a "bad word" or they beep out like that entire line..then whats the point of playing it? My point is as long as its tasteful and comes with a warning for those uncomfortable then its not really a big deal to me.

[SgtMakkie]

What one person considers tasteful another will not. That will open a huge can of worms ! Also could lead to hassle for the Mods when people complain about said 'distasteful art' or to spite someone.

[Silivren]

What one person considers tasteful another will not. That will open a huge can of worms ! Also could lead to hassle for the Mods when people complain about said 'distasteful art' or to spite someone.

Hence why you PM Mania for her opinion before posting, if someone complains after shes approved of it.. Well not much that can be done as she would warrant it alright. Furthermore if anyone would be posting or complaining anything out of spite thats clearly wrong and would go against forum rules in the first place. [...]

[Nubhorns]

The difference between drawn nudity and photographed nudity is fairly small, but the big reason is artistic license. No one has to draw nipples, hair can fall in just the right ways, and there are ever-convenient props to mask any naughty bits that would otherwise be visible. While props can be utilized in photographs as well, majority of the time they're not for artistic nudes. At this point I'm for these sorts of 'artistic license' doodles(although I personally don't mind full-frontal nudity in drawn art, I can't expect everyone to feel the same), tasteful nudity in drawn format...photographs, sadly, seem a little too iffy. People tend to be a lot less mature over a photo than they are over a drawing.

'Tasteful' isn't really used by it's dictionary description. Tasteful seems to imply non-erotic art with or without the censorship I mentioned above. At least that's how I see it.

Honestly, I think this entire thing could be resolved by going "If it has non-erotic nudity, either put it in a link or a cropped thumbnail with a warning of what may follow. If you ignore the warning, tough cookies, cry more for your tears fuel my doom machine you brought it upon yourself by ignoring the warning.".

P.S. Thank you Mania for the bat-brushing thread. <3

[Mania]

I locked this topic briefly while I split out the adorable but off-topic bat pictures.

This discussion is fascinating to me for several reasons. I never would have considered the difference between embedded pictures, attached pictures, and linked pictures, for example, or the difference between drawn nudity and nude photographs.

And I had never explicitly thought about how some of the forums fit into our main goal here. Like the art and RP forums - despite the fact that I just moved them to the Other area, I had really considered them to be pretty central. And yet there's no particular reason for me to assume that they are any more central to "WoW hunter pets" than the Real-Life Pets board is. I'd love to hear more feedback on that, although this isn't the right thread for a general discussion on that I suppose.

The erotic vs. non-erotic thing makes a lot of sense to me, but it's so hard to judge sometimes. I reserve the final say, sure, but I really don't want anyone to be afraid to post their art because they don't want to ask me. (Apparently I still scare some people.) In the same vein as erotic vs. non-erotic, I personally would be a lot happier to see a drawing of a male getting out of a pool with no shorts on and a fairly realistic penis than a cartoon-style upskirt doodle of a female with humorously enormous breasts and her mouth in a suggestive O. But that is an especially hard line to draw, given how routinely we sexualize any depictions of females.

[Kalliope]

I personally would look at things in the RP vein from the perspective of "is this necessary for the story or is it exploitational?" If the male and female characters getting out of a pool in the nude led to an embarrassing moment between the two which would change the entire tone of their relationship, that would be one thing. But if it's the cliche of one character spying on the other and the former doesn't get caught, then I'd say it's more voyeuristic for that character and for the audience, therefore making it inappropriate. But that's a very fine line to draw.

[lilatha]

I know most of what I'll say has been said but hey!

Ok nude images, or images showing female and male sexual body parts in detail (yeah that took me a good 5 mins thinking what to call it D:) should not be allowed. Again I said in detail I refer back to ofc DA where they have base images which dont show nipples or any other sexual part of the body.
Any image showing something gruesome; like dead bodies, animals or cut up etc.
Swearing now aslong as its not used in every line of a post its really ok .... We are all grown ups here no matter age. But it is nice to avoid swearing the best you can. Then again when your really mad, raging or having a outbrust I find it fine to use strong language.

Now Im not a huge RP'er but I personally wouldn't want to wander into that part of the forum and see every detailed and graphic sex sences if you and a friends character want to hit it off suuuure! Go ahead But say they spent the night together or something along those lines (yeah you can tell I don't RP D:) if they want to go into detail you would keep it in pirvate and if anyone else wanted to know you could mail it to them.

But really if someone puts in big red letters WARNING MATURE CONTENT. And a underage wanders onto it, it isn't the poster full falut the child should not of wandered onto said page or continued reading. I know when I have kids I won't be able to contorl them but I know for sure if I catch them on something they shouldn't that stated a warning I wouldn't blame the poster or the website I would blame myself more for not keeping a eye on them or blocking key words in posts.

Again just my two pennies on this sorta thing I know some might not agree with me but tis life :3

[TygerDarkstorm]

I locked this topic briefly while I split out the adorable but off-topic bat pictures.

And I had never explicitly thought about how some of the forums fit into our main goal here. Like the art and RP forums - despite the fact that I just moved them to the Other area, I had really considered them to be pretty central. And yet there's no particular reason for me to assume that they are any more central to "WoW hunter pets" than the Real-Life Pets board is. I'd love to hear more feedback on that, although this isn't the right thread for a general discussion on that I suppose.

I know you said that this may not be the right place to say this, but, I wanted to give my opinion anyway. I hope you don't mind.

I know that I personally would be upset to see about half the boards in this forum disappear because some people think our forums should only be dedicated to hunters and their pets. That means that the Real-Life Pets forums, RP forums, most of the Fan Art stuff, Off Topic forums, Mounts forums, Tabards forums, and Mini-pet forums would all disappear. And I know that some of the people saying the Petopia forums should only be about hunters and their pets post in those other forums.

I like this community and I like talking about pets, but the RP community here is what got me started in RP and between the RP boards and the pet challenges, are one of the large reasons I stay active here.

My question to the community is: Would you really want to upset that large of the culture of people on these forums because you think we *can't* have topics other than hunters and their pets? Hell, even MMO-Champion has a whole bunch of new Off-Topic forums.

The erotic vs. non-erotic thing makes a lot of sense to me, but it's so hard to judge sometimes. I reserve the final say, sure, but I really don't want anyone to be afraid to post their art because they don't want to ask me. (Apparently I still scare some people.) In the same vein as erotic vs. non-erotic, I personally would be a lot happier to see a drawing of a male getting out of a pool with no shorts on and a fairly realistic penis than a cartoon-style upskirt doodle of a female with humorously enormous breasts and her mouth in a suggestive O. But that is an especially hard line to draw, given how routinely we sexualize any depictions of females.

I agree and understand that making a decision on this kind of stuff is hard to given a final decision on.

[SgtMakkie]

I really don't understand why people feel it necessary to post certain pictures on this forum. If you want critique on what you've done then simply make post saying you've update your work on DA or where ever you load it to and here is the link. Simples.

The saying rings true for a reason, a picture is worth say a thousand words! Basically can then be interpreted in a thousand different ways.

Would it be viable or an idea to have a system on the forum that does a number of checks when people sign up to join the forum that only appear when people fill in ( a mandatory) date of birth. *just an idea* The people who have correctly follow the items (2-3 extra checks) they are given access to a tick box in the create post option to add a warning to their post. The people that have created their profiles correctly will be able to see these posts and naturally have the option of turning the posts of so the are not even visible to them.

Maybe a separate section in the forums where this can be discussed/shared. The membership to these groups would be strictly controlled by Mania and the top level Mods.

[TygerDarkstorm]

From what I've been reading, most people here are against anything that's overly and explicitly sexual posted straight on the site. In fact, most people have said that if any nudity or extreme violence to get posted that it be in the form of a link or thumbnail and advanced warnings placed.

[Cialbi]

There's been some questions as to why I consider there to be a big distinction between drawings and photographs when it comes to nudity. I have a few reasons. First, you are far more likely to find a photograph of someone who doesn't want it to be on the internet than it is to find a drawing, especially with the problems of 'sexting'. Second, within the context of these forums, I highly doubt that someone will be posting some nude photography that is their own work, and falls under the category of fan art (i.e: LARP). If there happened to be someone who wanted to do just that, they can PM Mania and ask for an exception to the rule. Finally, as Nubhorns helpfully pointed out, when depicting nudity, it's much easier to tone down the detail on certain parts of the body; not so feasible with a photograph. Just as how an artist can make a drawing all about the sexuality of a body, as in Mania's example of what would clearly cross the line, they can go in the opposite direction and tone down the sexual parts of the body, just having enough detail to make it clear that the figure is intended to be naked.

[cowmuflage]

If you ask Mania about something concering your art/topic before hand if your not sure about it then I don't see the problem I allways do when it comes to this kind of thing. I did with my model sheets becouse of the nudety and the women health thread. Its not too hard.

Oh BTW I can't post my model sheets on DA they think its hentai. Yet they think its fine for furrys and real life naked people to post there stuff. Allso a model sheet is not porn. infact alot in the professtion do nude ones for a race.

[Anyia]

While I don't think it would happen, closing down the "Other" / not-solely-WoW boards would really break up the community. It's the random stuff you get in the off topic boards that gives you a chance to connect with other people. There is only so much WoW-talk that can be done before all has been said and done.

[Acherontia]

I wanted to address something that's coming up in this conversation now, that I was thinking about myself:

The discussion of whether "questionable" (for the purposes of this thread) content is acceptable due to its relevancy to hunter pets, as compared to whether the RP/General etc boards are acceptable due to their relevancy.

I think that the Roleplay boards came about because of, and tend to have a lot of, WoW and hunter-oriented roleplay. Most of the RP I see over there (I lurk around now and then out of curiosity) seem to have to do with taming beasts and fighting alongside them, even when it strays into Pokemon The Fan Art / Creative Writing has a lot of hunter- & pet-oriented images and stories. The others have sprung up for a place for the growing community to socialize and share ideas, and that's fine.

I think, though, that the "relevancy" of pure erotica is crossing the line. Reasoning? It is kind of at odds with the "family" atmosphere. There's a point when your home-grown community might realize they all like something that might not be acceptable elsewhere, and hell, they figure, we like it so who cares? But one thing to remember is that this is a public site, with a public and pet-related forum, and even though we have other forums for socializing (which is fine), the forum should still be open, welcoming and accessible to newcomers. Coming in and finding nude fanart and ERP just doesn't fit (in my mind) with the idea of a family site--but there, I'm beating a dead horse again!

TLDR: The other boards are "relevant" as further extentions of the hunter/pet theme and it's fair enough that they grow from there, or are "relevant" as places for the hunter/pet community to socialize outside the theme--but erotica is too far and strays from the family-friendly atmosphere (all IMO).

[Mozag]

While I don't think it would happen, closing down the "Other" / not-solely-WoW boards would really break up the community. It's the random stuff you get in the off topic boards that gives you a chance to connect with other people. There is only so much WoW-talk that can be done before all has been said and done.

I agree. I have to say that I would probably stop visiting if this ever happened. While I still use this forum as a resource for my hunter activities, as well as hope to sometimes help others if I have an answer to their question, I stay here because of the community, the people, the joking around.

As for the rules regarding inappropriate content, I really am not the best person to judge or give opinions on the matter, it would seem. While I agree that hardcore porn and graphic violence is really not suitable for a place like this, I am a firm believer that we live in a far too sheltered society. I find it repulsive that we can play a game that, while not containing blood (as if this makes it all better), does have scenes of torture, death and killing innocents, amongst other things, and nobody bats an eyelid, but as soon as bodily functions or sex are brought up, people are up in arms. So, murder and torture get a teen rating, but sex is PG-18? I'm sorry, it's just wrong.

Makkie brings up some good points about respecting each other, but I still don't consider it the fault of the poster (after putting up appropriate warnings) if someone unable to deal with the content clicks on it. Warnings are a big red PRESS ME NOW button, but, yet again, that isn't the poster's fault, and I fail to see why we are responsible for the doings of some badly monitored child out there. If you have kids and don't want them to see the real world, then it's perhaps best to make sure they don't have access to television, the internet, or books for that matter. It is the parents' responsibility to keep their children in the dark, not ours.

So, I realise that monitoring and censorship are necessary parts of our culture, but I do naively dream of a day when we can start accepting our bodies and sexual urges as easily as we accept blowing people's heads up in video games.

[TygerDarkstorm]

And people have already agreed that "erotica" like posts be left out of the RPs and taken to private chats if the people wish to have them happen.

I don't really think anybody's contesting that point anymore from what I've seen.
(Above part directed to Ache and the people still bringing up the "erotica" RP scenes.)

And amen Mozag!

[Anyia]

I do naively dream of a day when we can start accepting our bodies and sexual urges as easily as we accept blowing people's heads up in video games.

^
This!

[GormanGhaste]

I find it repulsive that we can play a game that, while not containing blood (as if this makes it all better), does have scenes of torture, death and killing innocents, amongst other things, and nobody bats an eyelid, but as soon as bodily functions or sex are brought up, people are up in arms. So, murder and torture get a teen rating, but sex is PG-18? I'm sorry, it's just wrong.

I do naively dream of a day when we can start accepting our bodies and sexual urges as easily as we accept blowing people's heads up in video games.

^This. How can violence be more acceptable than sex? Or even just nudity? Last time I looked, most people weren't test tube babies.

[Worba]

Personally I have no desire to see any forum closed down - in some cases like with Taming Stories I think creating new forums is a good idea to help things stay reasonably organized and on-topic (otherwise it turns into anarchy, at which point mods throw up their hands since *nothing* is now "offtopic", and then the bots take over...etc), but again the end goal being to give everyone (within reason*) someplace to talk about pretty much whatever they want.

*I don't consider ERP as a reasonable exception (unless, again, it is placed behind a link with a warning), as I've seen far too many cases of people in-game essentially violating the EULA and then proudly explaining "but that's how my character would act - he's evil / conflicted / complex / lupine / etc after all!"... no.