Leaving...Again.

[Azunara]

I agree. The Moderation is, to be completely honest, horrible. It does NOT work. We rarely see any threads locked that need to be or deleted when they're spam. Hell, don't we STILL have several scam threads floating around, one of which that had viruses in it, that no one has dealt with? Back in the days of real Mods, those would've been taken care of in an hour, tops. Threads are edited or deleted when they don't need to be. When they do need it, they're allowed to sit for days.

Furthermore, I've noticed an attitude of, "We're a pet forum. Everyone should care for pets like us. If you dare hurt a pet, we will shun you." One thread someone said they stole a pet. They were jumped and picked at and had tons of people piling on them when all it took was a simple, "No, bad, don't do it again." Instead? Tons of people sitting there going, "YOU ARE HORRIBLE AND A MURDERER AND WE HATE YOU. >:("

It gets to the point where if you dare suggest you even thought about pitting yourself againt Kirix or Deth in a not-taming way, people will lose it. If you think you can name your pet after the rare, you're a griefer. If you use it in its orginial zone, you are a griefer. Guess what? They have the right to name their pet and show it off whenever and wherever they want. Yes, it may be "common courtesy" not to do so, but they should not be reported, hated, or have complaints flung at them.

Furthermore, as someone younger than 18, obviously a biased disagreement. Many people wouldn't know my age until I told them. Many people older than I am act younger than I do. Age =/= maturity.

Edited some word choice.

[Royi]

strikes me as rather hyperbolic

Thats my most FAVORITIST word ever! I always liked the sound of hyperbolize, but my professor always insisted that it wasn't an actual word.

It is to me darnit!

[Royi]

I agree. The Moderation is, to be completely honest, horrible. It does NOT work. We rarely see any threads locked that need to be or deleted when they're spam. Hell, don't we STILL have several scam threads floating around, one of which that had viruses in it, that no one has dealt with? Back in the days of real Mods, those would've been taken care of in an hour, tops. Threads are edited or deleted when they don't need to be. When they do need it, they're allowed to sit for days.

Is there only one annon moderator now? I think there still is power for the Blue names to lock threads. But I've noticed the moderator account never really explains anything... its more "i'm locking this because I say so"

One thread someone said they stole a pet. They were jumped and picked at and had tons of people piling on them when all it took was a simple, "No, bad, don't do it again." Instead? Tons of people sitting there going, "YOU ARE HORRIBLE AND A MURDERER AND WE HATE YOU. >:("

I think the problem with that thread (if i'm remembering which thread correctly) is that originally they poured out their feelings on how upset they were when a pet was stolen from them and asked for compassion and support from the petopian community for having the pet stolen (which they got)... but then they turned around and did the exact same thing that they were upset about to another innocent hunter by stealing their Ban'thalos tame.

Thats basically saying "some random person just stole my wallet... I need a hug... " then a day later going... well guys i'm sorry but I saw someone with their wallet hanging out a little bit so I stole it since they sort of looked like the person who stole mine yesterday...

It gets to the point where if you dare suggest you even thought about pitting yourself againt Kirix or Deth in a not-taming way, people will lose it. If you think you can name your pet after the rare, you're a griefer. If you use it in its orginial zone, you are a griefer. Guess what? They have the right to name their pet and show it off whenever and wherever they want. Yes, it may be "common courtesy" not to do so, but they should not be reported, hated, or have complaints flung at them.

I agree here. Heck as long as you dont deliberately pull out pets to set off NPCSCAN on people that are obviously camping, use the pet wherever you want to. You tamed him, dont be ashamed. Sometimes the original name for a pet just sticks too... Sambas always was Sambas for me, I couldn't think of another name for him at the time. But heck, if i'm running my Hyjal dailies I am going to use my Banthalos, because he's just awesome and I'm still super excited that I tamed him. (his name is different though)

[Azunara]

I agree. The Moderation is, to be completely honest, horrible. It does NOT work. We rarely see any threads locked that need to be or deleted when they're spam. Hell, don't we STILL have several scam threads floating around, one of which that had viruses in it, that no one has dealt with? Back in the days of real Mods, those would've been taken care of in an hour, tops. Threads are edited or deleted when they don't need to be. When they do need it, they're allowed to sit for days.

Is there only one annon moderator now? I think there still is power for the Blue names to lock threads. But I've noticed the moderator account never really explains anything... its more "i'm locking this because I say so"

One thread someone said they stole a pet. They were jumped and picked at and had tons of people piling on them when all it took was a simple, "No, bad, don't do it again." Instead? Tons of people sitting there going, "YOU ARE HORRIBLE AND A MURDERER AND WE HATE YOU. >:("

I think the problem with that thread (if i'm remembering which thread correctly) is that originally they poured out their feelings on how upset they were when a pet was stolen from them and asked for compassion and support from the petopian community for having the pet stolen (which they got)... but then they turned around and did the exact same thing that they were upset about to another innocent hunter by stealing their Ban'thalos tame.

Thats basically saying "some random person just stole my wallet... I need a hug... " then a day later going... well guys i'm sorry but I saw someone with their wallet hanging out a little bit so I stole it since they sort of looked like the person who stole mine yesterday...

It gets to the point where if you dare suggest you even thought about pitting yourself againt Kirix or Deth in a not-taming way, people will lose it. If you think you can name your pet after the rare, you're a griefer. If you use it in its orginial zone, you are a griefer. Guess what? They have the right to name their pet and show it off whenever and wherever they want. Yes, it may be "common courtesy" not to do so, but they should not be reported, hated, or have complaints flung at them.

I agree here. Heck as long as you dont deliberately pull out pets to set off NPCSCAN on people that are obviously camping, use the pet wherever you want to. You tamed him, dont be ashamed. Sometimes the original name for a pet just sticks too... Sambas always was Sambas for me, I couldn't think of another name for him at the time. But heck, if i'm running my Hyjal dailies I am going to use my Banthalos, because he's just awesome and I'm still super excited that I tamed him. (his name is different though)

Quotes splices are a nightmare, so...

1. The only blue names who can change threads are Ryno and I. Sat could as well, but, you know, she's banned. Beyond that, only the Moderator and Mania can change threads. Furthermore, Ryno and I can't edit posts, nor can we act as a mod outside of our set forums. (Petopian Guilds and Role-Playing respectively.)

2. I understand the action behind it, but what I'm saying is that the way people went about was not right. Way too many people jumped on them and argued and harshly critisized. And they were all repeating themselves with varying degrees of savagery. If it had been a mere, "You did a bad thing, let's not do again," it wouldn't be bad. But it was more along the lines of, "If I were the person, I would report you so fast and you will never be forgiven. You can't redeem yourself. You don't deserve the pet, and you deserve to delete your character." It was rather harsh.

3. And yeah, you're agreeing with me. Not much to say.

[Royi]

Quotes splices are a nightmare, so...

1. I wonder if Sat ever used her powers... anyways. I'm tired of the annon Moderator account. I think they should change their name to a userID/tag and become a part of these forums just like everyone else. Or it would be nice to have someone able to doublecheck what the moderator is doing besides Mania since she is busy with other stuff.

2. I think I said something about them making sure to feel bad about it at least, maybe i was harsh... i dont think i was the worst by far. I'll go reread it since I honestly have forgotten what I said. I just dislike hypocracy. I'm in a weird mood this week since we're giving away one of our dogs to another family member tomorrow and its a bit hard.

3. Yeah we're both right. End of story. *high five*

[Novikova]

Honestly I'm mostly worried about the malware links. Those guys are prime candidates for identity theft and wrecking computers. :/

Also, many people are leery of people under 18 because of 'cover your backside' policies. I tend to be very, very careful talking to anyone under 18 so I don't end up in any sort of legal trouble - even if I'm just chatting or in an RP. Teenagers are immature - they're still growing and changing. Many of us over 18 still are too. Heck, your frontal lobe doesn't even finish developing until you're 21. And I'd swear for some people it never pops in. Truthfully? Any human being still doing stuff and things is growing and changing anyhow.

[Nubhorns]

Maybe I'm just blind, but I don't really see a lot in the way of froth-at-the-mouth hostility around these parts. I do see a lot of passive-aggressive behavior, though, which is potentially more infuriating than outright hostility. If you have a problem with someone, get the metaphorical balls to talk to them about it directly instead of beating around the bush with little side-glares and whiny...uh, some child-friendly non-curse. Whiny stuff. If people would actually follow that - and I mean everyone, myself included - I seriously doubt this place would be as tense as it is.

Concerning rare-hunting, don't use flagrant hyperbole to get your argument across. Yes, it's looked down upon, but I've been killing rares for years now and these people know - I have yet to be fussed at for it. The most I've gotten is a "I'm sorry you feel that way". Wow, that's hostile. I'm not denying that people have been attacked for killing rares, but no one is going to room 101 for their rare killing ways.

I think if people would use common sense and address their issues the moment they crop up instead of hoarding them away like so many rare spawns, we'd have an easier time of it all.

• If you have a problem with someone, talk about it. Don't bottle it away.
• When you send them a PM, don't be overtly accusatory or hostile - you're just going to make them defensive. Work out your issues.
• For the love of Celestia, DO NOT RESPOND WHEN YOU'RE FROTHING MAD. Step away from the computer, do something else until you cool off.
• In the shocking event that your discussion doesn't work for some reason, these forums have a block feature. Use it.
• Yes, I know that doesn't block PMs.
• Delete any PMs you get that you don't want to read. Wooooah.
• And I think Pinkie could teach us something too. Laugh at your monsters. ;P
• Don't put too much stock in your gut feeling when reading tones through text. Assume the best.
• Likewise, don't ever immediately attribute something to malice when it could be better explained by something else.
• Laconic: No one is out to get you, calm down.

As for the other stuff, I agree with the Moderator discussion...I'm not entirely sure why we lost the mods in the first place, but I'm sort of confused by the anonymod. On one hand I assume we have an anon, infrequent-posting mod to keep bias from forming - but if you can't trust a mod to interact with the community and not become biased, then they're not a very good mod. If anything, I think a lot of the problem here is that we don't know the mod at all, aside from what Mania has told us, and it makes the whole situation feel very disjointed and sort of cold. The old mods were - and for the most part still are - active in the community, and they still interacted with the rest of the forum frequently while doing their jobs - it made them feel a lot friendlier, for one.

Edit: I think a lot of the griefer threads could stand to be compiled into some 4.2 Complaints thread or something, because they appear to be making up the bulk of the forums now. I'm not sure if that's hindering the mood any as well.

[cowmuflage]

The mods stoped being mods after the "it grinds my gears" thing. Basicly best left at that.

[Aeladrine]

Since this thread has gotten way off-topic anyway (was there even a real topic to begin with?), I'm copypasting something from one of the support threads, since people seem to have forgotten about it.

One thing that was mention in there was that we should all try to look at things we could do differently to help make the forums a better place. I think this is a fantastic idea and we should all do it! If we admit our own problems out loud, it'll be easier to deal with them. And, should all of us do that, the forums will become a much better place.

Here's mine:
Well, I should probably stop having such a mod attitude. Sometimes I feel like I'm overstepping my bounds and infringing on other's territory. And, when I have what I like to call my "mod" voice on, I often come off as cool or clinical and tend to expect people to listen to what I say. Not too long ago, I was tested by a forum member simply ignoring what everyone had to say. I will readily admit I quickly lost my patience and gave a couple of not-so-subtle, passive aggressive quips. That is something I should never allow to happen, though I am happy to say it doesn't seem to happen too often.

I should also stop getting irritable when people have grammar or spelling issues. I'm far from perfect and I generally don't say anything unless the sentence is impossible for me to understand because of grammar or spelling mishaps, but I really shouldn't allow myself to get irritated by it either way.

I shouldn't use the rant thread as much as I do. It gives off the impression that I'm an angry person and that leads to people being less willing to listen to my own opinions.

I suppose I should also try to shorten my posts a bit. People seem to dislike reading long posts. That one, however, I don't think I'll be willing to change. You guys will just have to suffer through my obnoxiously wordy (and, if I may compliment myself, eloquent) posts.(;

[zedxrgal]

I'm pretty new around here, I'll admit, but "The true rare spawn of the forums is threads without a single negative post in them" strikes me as rather hyperbolic. I see lots and lots of threads in here without negativity. That doesn't make what there is good or not a problem, just that it's not quite that prevalent.

One thing that I said in my post was that I do not come on here often anymore simply because of the negativity. So when I come on once every week or two and try and read threads a large portion have negative content in them or very passive aggressive. So that's where I am basing my opinion off of. Just because you personally have not seen it doesn't mean it's not there.

Obviously Kira has seen it and had it directed at her which is why she is choosing to take her leave of this forum once more. She's not the only who've made this decision based on the negativity here in these forums and the personal attacks they've received. I to have taken my leave and come back to not only see things hadn't change much but seemingly haven't changed at all and in some threads got worse.

Again sorry to see you go Kira and I understand.

[Sukurachi]

Some of the comments about "posting negativity" appear to contradict the "new people coming have made this place worse" argument.

"I too have taken my leave and come back to not only see things hadn't changed much but seemingly haven't changed at all and in some threads got worse" seems to say that the issue has existed for a long time and is not because of any "change" on the part of the forum and the influx of new members.

And then the older forum members wonder why new members don't really feel welcome here?

[Azunara]

"A long time" is a relative term. The time period most people must be thinking of is probably since Cata, things have grown drastically different. If you ask me, ever since those 10 new rares is when the problem really got to be an issue.

In all honesty, though, I don't blame anyone leaving. I'm considering it myself. It seems if you're not part of a club (The best part, Sukurachi, is that you're starting to see "clubs" dissipate, if I remember right), then you're not welcome. You either believe in Chitter and Dante, protect pets with everything you have, and play BM, or you don't and you're not entirely welcome.

[zedxrgal]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you Sukurachi or you may be misunderstanding me but since you quoted me directly I'm responding directly. I've not one time said it was newer members or potentially put blame on anyone as to why the negativity issue is around.
I guess maybe it depends on a person's (no one in particular) definition of what a "long time is". The negativity seems to have really started around Cata and since then has seemingly become worse not better even after attempts, be they light hearted or not, were made, opinions were requested in the hopes to change that. That has not happened. Nothing is anyone's direct fault.
Yes even some of the old members have a part they played in the negativity. Myself included which I firmly admit. Hence why several months ago I stopped visiting the forums daily. And in several months others have chose to take their leave also. It's not the "new people" or the old member's faults but individuals who've chosen to supply their opinions /responses to another member in a negative way whether it be passive or not.

[Morven]

One thing that I said in my post was that I do not come on here often anymore simply because of the negativity. So when I come on once every week or two and try and read threads a large portion have negative content in them or very passive aggressive. So that's where I am basing my opinion off of. Just because you personally have not seen it doesn't mean it's not there.

One thing that comes to mind is that we may be reading different parts of the forums.

Another is that some kinds of passive-aggressive behavior may not be obvious unless someone knows the history between people. Having not been here all that long, I'm not going to notice subtle digs at other posters, for instance, because I don't know the hot buttons.

Also, different people have differing levels of definition of "negative". I simply may not be as sensitive to it in general.

I think some forum members have been getting very stressed because of the 4.2 rares, camping, stealing and griefing. That has not been helping things at all, but will likely die down over time.

[Morven]

You either believe in Chitter and Dante, protect pets with everything you have, and play BM, or you don't and you're not entirely welcome.

I haven't felt any negativity or unwelcomeness through repeatedly stating that I prefer MM, feel that it's an integral part of my character's nature, and remain divided as to whether I should delete her BM off-spec completely. I'm unlikely to simply because of attachment to a couple of pets that I'll admit are purely there for vanity & roleplay reasons.

The Chitter and Dante things I just consider forum silliness, roleplay and in-jokes, and I don't get the feeling that one is expected to join in if one doesn't want to.

As to protecting rares, I've seen the whole spectrum here. About the only thing that seems to be nigh-universally criticized is actively trying to spoil other players' times through tame-stealing or tame-killing or other such forms of griefing. There are several players here that I've seen say they'll kill rares if nobody's camping it and they feel like it / want the loot / want the achievement, and while some have disagreed it doesn't feel to me that there's major exclusion going on based on it.

[Nubhorns]

You either believe in Chitter and Dante, protect pets with everything you have, and play BM, or you don't and you're not entirely welcome.

I haven't felt any negativity or unwelcomeness through repeatedly stating that I prefer MM, feel that it's an integral part of my character's nature, and remain divided as to whether I should delete her BM off-spec completely. I'm unlikely to simply because of attachment to a couple of pets that I'll admit are purely there for vanity & roleplay reasons.

The Chitter and Dante things I just consider forum silliness, roleplay and in-jokes, and I don't get the feeling that one is expected to join in if one doesn't want to.

As to protecting rares, I've seen the whole spectrum here. About the only thing that seems to be nigh-universally criticized is actively trying to spoil other players' times through tame-stealing or tame-killing or other such forms of griefing. There are several players here that I've seen say they'll kill rares if nobody's camping it and they feel like it / want the loot / want the achievement, and while some have disagreed it doesn't feel to me that there's major exclusion going on based on it.

Basically this is what I wanted to say, but couldn't really phrase it as eloquently. :P I play Survival/Marks on my hunters with BM off-specs - and my new main is a feral druid - I kill rares, I don't follow Chitter/P.Dawg...I was around for Dante but ended up adopting a different black scorpid instead, and I haven't felt any of this hostility that is apparently all around me.

What I don't agree with is griefing(although I'm sort of on the fence when it comes to killing Firelands rares because it's tactless, considering how sought after they are now) and I'm pretty sure that's universally agreed on here.

Edited to add I'm not denying the tension on some parts of the forums - I'm just saying I don't really see the 'rar rar kill the rare-killers rar burn them at the stake' sort of mentality that is supposedly here.

[cowmuflage]

Um Nubs I do. That rant I did a few weeks back in the rant thread about rares got me a few PMS saying I'm bad O.o and that I should change my ways XD

[Nubhorns]

Um Nubs I do. That rant I did a few weeks back in the rant thread about rares got me a few PMS saying I'm bad O.o and that I should change my ways XD

I'm sorry you got a few stray sillies, then, but I don't really think that's representative of the community as a whole. The way Azunara played it out made it seem like we have roving bands of people with pitchforks and torches, shrieking profanities at people who aren't wearing cheeto-stained "I ♥ Loque'nahak" t-shirts and us rare-killers play the part of the gritty war veterans who have to hide in a bomb shelter to stay alive. It's not really like that at all unless something is going on behind the scenes and I'm missing it.

I think, besides the few crazies, the situation is less bad than it's being portrayed as here - I'm not denying it, of course, as I've had some run-ins with people disagreeing with me before as well - but I've never felt persecuted, I've never been shunned or isolated from the community due to the way I play the game. If anything, people have accepted me with open arms, and I think I've only been jumped on once and it wasn't even related to rare-killing and more to how I phrased my argument. I wonder if the 'persecution' is self-imposed by people who think they're not welcome, maybe by reading too far into things or getting the wrong tone, or if there's more stuff going on over PMs that no one is really getting out. It just doesn't make a lot of sense that you have, say, 10 people who openly follow an unpopular opinion, and only 2 out of 10 people are supposedly harassed for it. For it to spark this much rage, you'd think more people would be getting attacked over it. I suppose a lot can play into it - someone may have a bone to pick with someone else*cough*aswehaveseen*cough* due to a prior engagement, for example...it just doesn't really click with me, I guess is what I'm saying.

Regardless, it does need to stop, I'm wholeheartedly in agreement with that.

[Morven]

Is some of the problem to do with bleed-over from the Petopian guilds and that area of the site? I've heard tell of schisms there, partly about rare-killing — I don't go on that area of the forums, so if there's things going on there, I'm probably missing it.

[Aeladrine]

Aww, I feel unloved. No one wants to reply to me. ;n;

Just kidding, obviously. I have yet to have someone act hostile to me, but I see many, many cases of passive aggressive hostility each time I come onto the forums.

The outright hostility tends to be located in thread about the new pets, whether it's about someone being griefed or someone getting the pet.
Someone else said we should just have one, large, stickied thread about losing rares and being griefed. I'd love to see that. Honestly, like a number of others, I'm rather sick of seeing all those threads about losing rares. I miss the days where we'd have a thread about how you were camping something and everyone would come in to give you their support. Those threads were great, we shared the ups and downs of the camp with the entire forum. I understand a number of people didn't like those. I, personally, would far prefer seeing those to seeing a bunch of threads that some people would say "whine". I'm not saying they do, but those threads seem to generate a lot of hatred.

I'd also love to see a return to the old way of moderating. Mania has recruited people to use the Moderator account, but none of those people really explain why they're doing what they're doing. They either overmoderate or don't moderate at all. There's never an in-between.

Edited for a silly typo.