Pet talent summary...

[Worba]

Not in the pugs I've run in. Raid though I could see.

[Kalliope]

Raids are the only things that "count" when it comes to talking about endgame pet dps, because 5s can be run with anything and are usually missing many of the standard buffs anyway.

[Worba]

Only true for those who prefer raids; pugs obviously have their own requirements, and which shapes public perception as much as anything else.

[Kalliope]

True enough!

[Sesamee]

I'm not quite sure what you mean Ses. There wasn't ever a real point (at least recently) where Cunning didn't have a purpose. They are great in PvP, with amazing utility talents. They also are on par DPS-wise with Ferocity pets. It's been a very long time since they were over-shadowed by Ferocity pets, especially in a raid where their utility AND damage made them just as useful, if not moreso than Ferocity pets.

Cunning is good for MM pvp but for BM ferocity pets are preferable. SV pvp isn't viable right now so it doesnt really matter. And in a raid situation the only reason to bring a cunning over ferocity depends on the buff/debuff. I don't think they quite up to par with Ferocity pets for dps, everything else being equal. If all buffs are covered I'd bring whatever ferocity pet I want but I'd only use my wind serpent, for example, if we needed the magic debuff. I do agree that cunning pets like spiders and monkeys have great pvp abilities. For MM they're great but BM, which is already not terrific for high level pvp, is at an even greater disadvantage without the dps a Ferocity pet brings.

IDK, it just seems to me that Tenacity pets have their niche as tanks, Ferocity are the damage dealers, and Cunning has been like the weird uncle at the family reunion, the odd man out, so to speak.

[Ellaran]

I'm not quite sure what you mean Ses. There wasn't ever a real point (at least recently) where Cunning didn't have a purpose. They are great in PvP, with amazing utility talents. They also are on par DPS-wise with Ferocity pets. It's been a very long time since they were over-shadowed by Ferocity pets, especially in a raid where their utility AND damage made them just as useful, if not moreso than Ferocity pets.

Cunning is good for MM pvp but for BM ferocity pets are preferable. SV pvp isn't viable right now so it doesnt really matter. And in a raid situation the only reason to bring a cunning over ferocity depends on the buff/debuff. I don't think they quite up to par with Ferocity pets for dps, everything else being equal. If all buffs are covered I'd bring whatever ferocity pet I want but I'd only use my wind serpent, for example, if we needed the magic debuff. I do agree that cunning pets like spiders and monkeys have great pvp abilities. For MM they're great but BM, which is already not terrific for high level pvp, is at an even greater disadvantage without the dps a Ferocity pet brings.

IDK, it just seems to me that Tenacity pets have their niche as tanks, Ferocity are the damage dealers, and Cunning has been like the weird uncle at the family reunion, the odd man out, so to speak.

Cunning was meant to be the "middle ground" between Ferocity and Tenacity, strong and defensive but not quite both. I think Blizzard decided to change it so that the three trees have more sharply defined roles: Ferocity as PvE dps, Cunning as PvP dps/utility, and Tenacity as soloing/questing/utility. Giving us the ability to pick the Tree for our pets lets us ensure that the pets themselves aren't stuck as only one type, now we can have raiding Worms, tanking Birds-of-Prey, player-chasing Hyenas, whatever we wish.

[Kalliope]

IDK, it just seems to me that Tenacity pets have their niche as tanks, Ferocity are the damage dealers, and Cunning has been like the weird uncle at the family reunion, the odd man out, so to speak.

Cunning is the designated PvP spec. The best utility. Tenacity and Ferocity have their uses, but the overall most flexible is Cunning.

A.k.a what Ellaran just said.

[Gimlion]

Eh, I've gotten the same numbers in endgame (back when I raided) with both Cunning and Ferocity, and Frostheim stated that Cunning would sometimes outshine Ferocity in the OP's link. Also, SV is completely PvP viable. One of the best PvP hunters on my realm is SV. Either way, my Spider and SB get equal usage in PvP with me, and don't see too much of a difference other than abilities brought to the table. I was never doubting Cunnings use leaning towards PvP, but I liked being able to use them in PvE as well, which will be much more situational with the new talent setup. I'm not going to be too concerned, as I'm sure it'll work out fine though. I also think some of this convo should probably move to PM, or at least another thread, I didn't mean to take over Slick's thread with a debate, sorry Slick!

[Astratia]

Sorry, I'm sure I missed it somwhere when scanning this thread, but I have a question.

Will our pets be maintaining their special buffs, or are we losing the specific family buffs. Example: Ferious howl, Shell Sheild, Web wrap ect.

[Kalliope]

As of right now, the pet family buffs are staying, Astratia. HOWEVER, beta is beta and some of them are going to have to change, due to certain types of buffs being removed (from everyone).

[lilaughingwolf]

Being the game keeps crashing on me....did I see things when it looked like they gave pets a duel spec? It looked like there was two tabs like on a char for spec. I'll try again later to see if I was just seeing things but keeps crashing for me : /

[Kalliope]

Yep, you get to choose your pet spec for each of your specs. Unfortunately, it keeps resetting at the most random times, but hey, it's there.