The Twelfth Doctor

[cowmuflage]

It's not really you it's like most people on the internet when it comes to this subject. It's like they act like their views are more important. I just want to talk about Doctor who with out someone being a uptight PC dick for once >>

[Aeladrine]

Their views aren't more important, Cow, but they do have equal weight to yours. And, as the Doctor is the perfect sort of character to change genders or race, a large number of people are upset that this hasn't been taken advantage of, and understandably so. It's not about someone being uptight or unpleasant, it's simply that they're frustrated. A lot of people are.

Of course, I don't think anyone wants Moffat to touch a character that's not a white guy. And, as I said, I personally won't be coming back to Doctor Who until he's replaced.

[Wain]

Actually, his companions have saved the Doctor any number of times. And by "wouldn't work", I think Castile meant work for her as a show structure, not within the lore of the universe (though I don't believe there's any evidence of a Time Lord changing genders when regenerating but plenty to suggest it's certainly uncommon if not impossible).

I can't help but feel this is somehow down to a sense of wanting the show to fill roles it just wasn't designed for. I don't think it needs to fill the role of a strong <insert characteristic> lead for everyone. It's a show about a male alien traveller who is a life-long Anglophile. While I'm always open to the possibilities of new angles to the role, I think it's not very practical to expect anything different. There are other shows and other universes that can fill those roles.

And I also think it's easy to become blinkered by fervent fan communities that somehow their desires are the desires of the majority fan base. This can often be very far from the truth.

[cowmuflage]

You can be frustrated with out doing what most people are doing. They are being unpleasant very much so. When you yell at people for being fine with the new Who you are being unpleasant. It's about being an adult and walking away from the keyboard. It's fine to be frustrated but the shit I'm seeing you can't just blame on being frustrated.

[Lisaara]

Actually, his companions have saved the Doctor any number of times. And by "wouldn't work", I think Castile meant work for her as a show structure, not within the lore of the universe (though I don't believe there's any evidence of a Time Lord changing genders when regenerating but plenty to suggest it's certainly uncommon if not impossible).

I can't help but feel this is somehow down to a sense of wanting the show to fill roles it just wasn't designed for. I don't think it needs to fill the role of a strong <insert characteristic> lead for everyone. It's a show about a male alien traveller who is a life-long Anglophile. While I'm always open to the possibilities of new angles to the role, I think it's not very practical to expect anything different. There are other shows and other universes that can fill those roles.

And I also think it's easy to become blinkered by fervent fan communities that somehow their desires are the desires of the majority fan base. This can often be very far from the truth.

Actually there is proof of it. :3

http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/The_Corsair

He's changed genders a few times. (Doesn't mean I support the Doctor doing the same, however!) I found this guy while researching for rp purposes. :3

And yeah, the companions aren't just arm candy and never have been. They play a vital role with the Doctor. The companion is just as much of a 'lead role' as the Doctor is. Kinda like 'lead male' and 'lead female'. Two different people, still both are leads. Also...Clara....she's a companion and because of her, the Doctor exists in a way. I'd say that's a pretty big deal.

[Wain]

Actually there is proof of it. :3
http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/The_Corsair
He's changed genders a few times. (Doesn't mean I support the Doctor doing the same, however!) I found this guy while researching for rp purposes. :3

Oh my god, I forgot that! And that was one of my favourite episodes.

[Lisaara]

Actually there is proof of it. :3
http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/The_Corsair
He's changed genders a few times. (Doesn't mean I support the Doctor doing the same, however!) I found this guy while researching for rp purposes. :3

Oh my god, I forgot that! And that was one of my favourite episodes.

Now I'm just imagining you headdesking going "How the hell did I forget that?! WTF!"

[Silivren]

Actually, his companions have saved the Doctor any number of times. And by "wouldn't work", I think Castile meant work for her as a show structure, not within the lore of the universe (though I don't believe there's any evidence of a Time Lord changing genders when regenerating but plenty to suggest it's certainly uncommon if not impossible).

I can't help but feel this is somehow down to a sense of wanting the show to fill roles it just wasn't designed for. I don't think it needs to fill the role of a strong <insert characteristic> lead for everyone. It's a show about a male alien traveller who is a life-long Anglophile. While I'm always open to the possibilities of new angles to the role, I think it's not very practical to expect anything different. There are other shows and other universes that can fill those roles.

And I also think it's easy to become blinkered by fervent fan communities that somehow their desires are the desires of the majority fan base. This can often be very far from the truth.

Thank you Wain for speaking so beautifully and taking the words out of my mouth. The Doctor has been a male from day one.. It's like to expect that to change so drastically is literally to nearly impossible. It's who he is. It's been that way for how many years? I personally, don't want a female Doctor, it wouldn't work for me.

I want the new Doctor to have a kick-ass strong female companion who isn't in "awe" of him. I want her to jokingly call him Grandpa and to give him hell and I want her to be strong because a companion isn't just a "secondary" character. A companion be definition is a great thing to have and to be. I see the Doctor AND his companions as the shows main characters.

Mostly I want people to stop judging this poor man before they know him. That's completely unfair to already voice your opinion on him AS A PERSON before even seeing what he has to offer. You may not be happy he isn't female, a different race, or something along those lines, but, THAT'S NOT HIS FAULT, and he's the Doctor and I suspect he'll do a fine job of being the Doctor.

[Lisaara]

It's funny....while the whiners are being loud, I'm seeing a lot of support for him as well.

[Sigrah]

While each Doctor is unique, there need to be some constants, or at least things that change slowly. The fact that he's very English is one of them. Maybe he'll use a Scots accent, but I suspect he won't.

I don't know why he couldn't, Sylvester McCoy (#7) used his and he's one of my favorite Doctors.

[Nevish]

I apologize if anything I have said has come off as rude or snippy. I'm fairly certain I didn't call anyone sexist, including Moffat, but I still believe it's long past time we had a female Doctor. As I said, it's fine if you don't want a female Doctor. But it is important to understand why people do want one, and why they are upset they have been once again denied.

Agreed with all your posts. If we have a better potential for a female Doctor next time around, I hope to god Moffat is far, far away from having any executive power over Doctor Who. Before him, being the Doctor's companion was never really a "secondary" job or something that could be degrading - they definitely had their heroic moments, and more often than not there were incidents in the show where they were sometimes more important to a universe-saving plot than he was. There's a reason why Donna Noble was once called "The Most Important Woman in the Universe". Then Moffat pulled his claws out, and we're at where we are now.

Neil Gaiman had a really good stance on it. He said that a female Doctor should follow Peter Capaldi's performance, and not Matt Smith's. I think Peter Capaldi's role is going to be what makes the show cool it's heels, so to speak. I'm really looking forward to seeing what he can bring to the table, and hope for a better future for the show now that we'll be losing the Fez Wearing Wonder soon.

[Aeladrine]

Agreed with all your posts. If we have a better potential for a female Doctor next time around, I hope to god Moffat is far, far away from having any executive power over Doctor Who. Before him, being the Doctor's companion was never really a "secondary" job or something that could be degrading - they definitely had their heroic moments, and more often than not there were incidents in the show where they were sometimes more important to a universe-saving plot than he was. There's a reason why Donna Noble was once called "The Most Important Woman in the Universe". Then Moffat pulled his claws out, and we're at where we are now.

Neil Gaiman had a really good stance on it. He said that a female Doctor should follow Peter Capaldi's performance, and not Matt Smith's. I think Peter Capaldi's role is going to be what makes the show cool it's heels, so to speak. I'm really looking forward to seeing what he can bring to the table, and hope for a better future for the show now that we'll be losing the Fez Wearing Wonder soon.

I had told myself I wasn't going to reply to this thread anymore, but you reminded me of one last thing I wanted to say.

A lot of people are very upset because there has been, for a long time, the implication that there will only ever be 12 Doctors. We don't know if the Doctor will circumvent this somehow. A lot of people think this is it. Capaldi will be the last Doctor. And, as there is really no reason for him not to be anything except male and white, it's kind of frustrating. People see a show that has more influence in the world than any other show. They see a show known across the world for portraying actual, controversial issues during a time when they're relevant. Part of why people are so upset is that the show has a history of doing things like this with its companions. People who wouldn't normally be chosen for the role are. For the Doctor to be exempt from this, and for anyone who's not a white guy to not be able to go for the role... It seems to go against a lot of what the show tries to impart to us.

That being said, I think Capaldi will make an excellent Doctor, but I'm still not touching the show with a ten foot pole until Moffat is gone. This would be true no matter who the Doctor was, so please don't think I'm "boycotting" it because I think they could've made a better choice.

I'm just not watching because Moffat's writing is mediocre at best and he's incapable of remembering his own plots at worst (coughs Weeping Angels coughs). Until he's gone, so am I.

[Lupis]

I apologize if anything I have said has come off as rude or snippy. I'm fairly certain I didn't call anyone sexist, including Moffat, but I still believe it's long past time we had a female Doctor. As I said, it's fine if you don't want a female Doctor. But it is important to understand why people do want one, and why they are upset they have been once again denied.

Agreed with all your posts. If we have a better potential for a female Doctor next time around, I hope to god Moffat is far, far away from having any executive power over Doctor Who. Before him, being the Doctor's companion was never really a "secondary" job or something that could be degrading - they definitely had their heroic moments, and more often than not there were incidents in the show where they were sometimes more important to a universe-saving plot than he was. There's a reason why Donna Noble was once called "The Most Important Woman in the Universe". Then Moffat pulled his claws out, and we're at where we are now.

THIS abut companions. I'm really sick of companions that are special from birth, because that's not the point of them. Donna was just a woman in a bad job. Rose was just a girl. Martha was just a doctor. They didn't start glorious, they grew into it, showed how every normal person had the potential to be incredibly important and strong. Then Moffat and now the companions are either BORN to save the Doctor (are you serious) or they're destined to meet him. Amy had the crack in her wall and didn't get the chance to grow up normal. Clara is... Clara. I'm dying for a companion to be special because they grow and become strong out of nothing, not a companion that starts out super important and they just have to solve a bunch of riddles to figure out why.

For this Doctor, I have hope for the Doctor himself becoming something I can get behind, something more akin to 7 and 9. Yeah, I wanted a female doctor, but I certainly didn't expect it from this show and this writer, so I'm not that disappointed. We'll just have to see.

[Lisaara]

Agreed with all your posts. If we have a better potential for a female Doctor next time around, I hope to god Moffat is far, far away from having any executive power over Doctor Who. Before him, being the Doctor's companion was never really a "secondary" job or something that could be degrading - they definitely had their heroic moments, and more often than not there were incidents in the show where they were sometimes more important to a universe-saving plot than he was. There's a reason why Donna Noble was once called "The Most Important Woman in the Universe". Then Moffat pulled his claws out, and we're at where we are now.

Neil Gaiman had a really good stance on it. He said that a female Doctor should follow Peter Capaldi's performance, and not Matt Smith's. I think Peter Capaldi's role is going to be what makes the show cool it's heels, so to speak. I'm really looking forward to seeing what he can bring to the table, and hope for a better future for the show now that we'll be losing the Fez Wearing Wonder soon.

I had told myself I wasn't going to reply to this thread anymore, but you reminded me of one last thing I wanted to say.

A lot of people are very upset because there has been, for a long time, the implication that there will only ever be 12 Doctors. We don't know if the Doctor will circumvent this somehow. A lot of people think this is it. Capaldi will be the last Doctor. And, as there is really no reason for him not to be anything except male and white, it's kind of frustrating. People see a show that has more influence in the world than any other show. They see a show known across the world for portraying actual, controversial issues during a time when they're relevant. Part of why people are so upset is that the show has a history of doing things like this with its companions. People who wouldn't normally be chosen for the role are. For the Doctor to be exempt from this, and for anyone who's not a white guy to not be able to go for the role... It seems to go against a lot of what the show tries to impart to us.

That being said, I think Capaldi will make an excellent Doctor, but I'm still not touching the show with a ten foot pole until Moffat is gone. This would be true no matter who the Doctor was, so please don't think I'm "boycotting" it because I think they could've made a better choice.

I'm just not watching because Moffat's writing is mediocre at best and he's incapable of remembering his own plots at worst (coughs Weeping Angels coughs). Until he's gone, so am I.

It won't be the last Doctor....two reasons why.

1. River gave the Doctor all her regenerations and we don't know how many she had. Far as we know, she has only regenerated once.
2. The '13 regen only' thing was never confirmed. It was mostly a fan theory last I read up about it on the wikia. I had been researching it for rp purposes when creating a race for my OC.

So the people flipping out kinda should calm themselves.

[AdamSavage]

[cowmuflage]

I think people got their hopes up way too goddamn high when it came to the whole female Doctor thing. They assumed they would do that and we all know that saying >.>

[Castile]

I think people got their hopes up way too goddamn high when it came to the whole female Doctor thing. They assumed they would do that and we all know that saying >.>

Alot of people seem to have lost what Dr Who was originally about too. Alot have only seen the new sparkly version so they want all these things in a show which essentially doesn't need them. The premise of Dr Who was a renegade Time Lord who liked to meddle in affairs he wasn't supposed to. Kinda like a rebel in space. He doesn't need a love interest and certainly doesn't need to change genders. There are already plenty of other strong female leads in sci fic I just don't think the Dr needs to be one of them sorry.

I think he is fine the way he is and the producers would lose a massive fan base of older viewers if they pandered to the new "whovians" desires. And I think with Matt Smith they may have already in a way which is why the new one kinda returns to the traditional way the doctor was seen in easrlier incarnations.

I think the new guy will be great and I'm glad hes older this time round. No more kitchen sink romance thanks!

[Wain]

The twelve regenerations thing isn't just fan theory. I remember from the old series that the Master had already used up all his and was circumventing it by stealing the bodies or life energies of others.

Actually, rather than my poor memory, lemme check Wikipedia....

It was first stated in The Deadly Assassin[20] that a Time Lord can regenerate twelve times before dying (thirteen incarnations in all). There were exceptions to this rule, however: when the Master reached the end of his regenerative cycle, he took possession of the body of another person to continue living. In "The Five Doctors", the Master was offered a new cycle of regenerations by the High Council to save the Doctor from the Death Zone, which may indicate that there are methods to circumvent the twelve regeneration limit. The Master says in "The Sound of Drums" that the Time Lords "resurrected" him to fight in the Time War, which appears to support this. It was revealed in "The Brain of Morbius" that the Time Lords also use the Elixir of Life in extreme cases, where regeneration is not possible.

I'm certain they'll find ways of keeping the Doctor regenerating for as long as they want. When they first created the "twelve regenerations" thing, it must have seemed impossibly far off that they'd ever have to deal with this. But the solution would be trivial compared to a lot of the weird things that have happened in the Whoniverse.

[Silivren]

Case in point..



(I love Matt though, he's so adorable. Deserved MUCH better than River )

[Wain]

Case in point..

(I love Matt though, he's so adorable. Deserved MUCH better than River )

Love it Though I've really enjoyed River's character. She's... unexpected, weird, off-beat. And when he referred to her as "Mrs Robinson" I couldn't stop laughing.