Secondly, none of you *know* for certain what their plans are - unless you are secretly game designers, and even then what is planned one week may change the next, I've experienced that second-hand.
Where was I? Oh yes... none of you *know* for certain, so please phrase your assertions accordingly. You *believe* X, Y & Z, you don't *know* them. Stating beliefs as facts may make you feel like you're in a stronger position in a discussion, but in reality it only seems to get everyone else's backs up and then things escalate.
This all came out of nowhere a few days ago this whole "they are removing flying from WoW for everz!" and then people started to run around like headless chickens!
Lots of words like "apparently" being throwen around and nothing to back it up :/ I think these froums should be for facts and stuff not "I heard *insert what ever rumor that has no proof here*" becuase then people will think they are real things happening and that really should not happen.
I'm just imagining all these exhausted proto drakes and firehawks cause they have such itty bitty legs after someone having made them run the entire map
I put this on the main forums and will again here...
Or you all can send them in game suggestions telling them how flying is meant to be kept in game and that we players do need it for easier traveling instead of complaining about something we know nothing about yet. For all we know they still may add it in 6.1 like they first thought we don't know till we hear more facts I am sure they know how us players rely on flying to get around when leveling another alt and hate using slow ground mounts.
It did not start from nothing and I certainly am not making anything up. It started with an interview of Alex Afrasiabi where he says that he thinks a world totally without flying could work. He is one of the head developers of the game and not just a CM like Bashiok. There have also been a number of posts and tweets by other Blizzard people portraying flying in a negative manner. Cory Stockton (Mumper on Twitter) tweeted that flying would be disabled at launch and they would play it by ear after that.
The interview can be seen here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8P4xSFOj0M and clearly shows that Draenor being a no flying zone for the entire expansion is something that is under consideration. He says the xpac will begin with no flying and they will go by player response as to when they will make it available, if at all. The interview also contains a lot of other information and is well worth watching.
Nobody is saying flying will be completely eliminated from the game but it is clear that they have at least considered eliminating it from WoD. Making all mounts able to be used as ground mounts suggests that this possibility has become stronger. It seems that it is up to us, as players, to make sure by our feedback that we can fly in WoD as soon as possible and that at the least, the original plan as presented is put in place.
I am happy to see that all mounts can work as ground mounts, even if I don't see myself using them as ground mounts... xD If I'm on the ground I prefer tight easy to maneuver mounts.
However, on the concept of no flying in Draenor at all...yes in original articles devs said it would wait until after 6.1.
Now the possibility of no flying in Draenor is being tossed around by several devs on Twitter. The youtube interview Daniel linked to mentions it around 6:00. I don't see them removing it from the game completely, but they are considering seeing if they can skip adding it in Draenor. Some quotes from that area of the interview for those who don't want to watch (though I do suggest you do). "At ship we will not allow flying at all. We really want to feel it out..." "We really want to feel out how the players react." "Is there a world where we have no flying but people love it? Is it a possibility? I believe it is."
A few snippets from recent twitters:
They're not really saying much one way or another, just that they want to test it out. I think it's the lack of an answer that has people nervous (myself included because I'd hate to never be able to fly in Draenor). That and I think people are nervous because before it was a "get flying at 6.1", and not more of a "we'll play it by ear/wait and see"...because now it leaves the door open for a potentially flightless Draenor even after level cap. Whether or not it happens, no one knows. Only time and the devs will tell. -shrugs-
Yeah, nobody doubts the info provided, there's just disagreement on the inference that it means they're considering disabling it on Draenor permanently. From what I've seen the "play it by ear" could work both ways, meaning they could delay it further or they could enable it sooner than 6.1. We don't know.
Personally, I'd hate to see flying gone for good. I love flying. Not for convenience, it's just fun!
I'm more concerned over suggestions that the Timeless Isle is any model for what is to come. To be honest I've found it a thoroughly miserable place to play in, especially as melee. A number of the mobs seem to be designed with no thought for melee at all, the amount of challenge to ranged being comparatively tiny (and I play a melee shammy and a hunter there equally so I have good experience at both). The novelty PvP device was tantamount to official encouragement for griefing. If that didn't occur to them when they added it then I'll assert they simply weren't thinking. The island also seems to have brought out the worst in people, with more human faecal waste trolling on General than the rest of the last two expansions combined. Create a miserable environment and trash will seek to transfer the misery to someone else. I can only hope that the Timeless Isle isn't a model but rather the product of neglect from their attentions being spent on Draneor.
Anyway, that's all a bit off-topic, sorry. Just that, for me, I think there are worse things to worry about than how soon we'll get flying.
The play it by ear absolutely could go either way. That's why I say it's up to those of us who want to be able to fly to make our voices heard. It just seems from all the comments by Blizzard people that at this time, they are leaning towards making Draenor a flightless zone.
Danielfboone wrote:The play it by ear absolutely could go either way. That's why I say it's up to those of us who want to be able to fly to make our voices heard. It just seems from all the comments by Blizzard people that at this time, they are leaning towards making Draenor a flightless zone.
May seem like that to you, maybe. To me, it seems the exact opposite since they stated flying would be allowed in 6.1(from the article I linked previously). *shrug* Could that change? Yeah, sure, but I highly doubt it.
If you feel strongly about this, it certainly is valid to make your voice heard!
But I'd honestly wait until the expansion is released and you've played it a bit. If you read what they're saying, they're seeing if they can change everyone's minds about no-fly zones, which means any negative feedback right now will not be nearly as persuasive as "I've played it and still don't like it" feedback later.
Wain wrote:I'm more concerned over suggestions that the Timeless Isle is any model for what is to come. I can only hope that the Timeless Isle isn't a model but rather the product of neglect from their attentions being spent on Draenor.
Even as ranged, I haven't found Timeless Isle compelling content. My main isn't even honored yet.
I love flying. In real life I can walk or run around or even ride a motorcycle or horse (ok, I've never ridden a motorcycle, but I could). I can't fly. Even when I lucid dream, I am bad at flying. In warcraft, I adore flying. When BC came out, flying was the major reason I kept playing the game. Just the way the world moves when you fly is wonderful. When I took a year break during LK, I came back because I missed my guildmates, but I was struck with how well the game looked when I was flying around.
In addition to the aesthetics, flying also offers other benefits. It takes the advantage away from the attacker in the "capture vs elude/escape" type of pvp encounter. A lot of times, there's someone more powerful than you that you know is going to attack you or has already attacked you. It's no fun trying to fight them because they will 100% win. But there is some challenge in trying to escape. Flight offers an endpoint to the capture vs escape encounter. Otherwise, some griefer may just chase you until they catch and kill you. Then camp you. The people who cite wpvp as the reason why other people shouldn't be allowed to fly. I expect those people are sore losers, failing to catch as many people as they want in the catch vs escape type encounter. If blizzard wants to swing the balance back towards the attacker, then they could just make an improved version of Hardened Shell. A cooldown of 5 minutes, you could use while flying where it dismounts both players (attacker and quarry), and puts them in stasis as it pulls them towards each other as they fall. They could have a 5 minute debuff that made flying and stealthing impossible. For the quarry, the debuff would also allow them to rez at a gy with no rez sickness, and the debuff would be removed when they rezed in any manner.
Flying also immerses you better in the world than flight points (the alternative). With flight points, you just hop on, and either alt-tab or afk for hulu, cooking, bio, etc. Sometimes you don't come back. When you fly, you can adjust your path as you see fit. You might be passing a pet daily quest, or some underground mining nodes, or a rare spawn. You can think, "while I'm out here, why don't I engage in the world in this other, additional way". Flight points are basically portals that take several minutes to work.
Flight points have been missing something since WoW classic, when they first gave us the ability to chain flight points. You can't easily land at some flight point in the middle of your long path. Whether or not there's flying, when you're on a taxi, there should be a button that tells you the nearest flight point (either ahead of you or behind you) and if you click the button, the taxi should go to that flight point and land. That might mean turning a 180. You shouldn't have to log off and back on, to force a landing (and only at the flight point ahead of you).
I'm trepidatious about flying mounts used as ground mounts. The maximum size of ground mounts has been smaller than the maximum size of flying mounts. I'm worried Tauren on massive flying mounts will make it harder to do things in BG.
Don't get me wrong, I understand why flying shouldn't be allowed at the beginning. It ruined questing in Cataclysm. And gating it with max level allows rooftop griefing and trivializes questing at max level (think dread wastes). I absolutely loved exploring the world on foot during LK and MoP. Jade Forest was a sublime questing experience, and I was one sub-zone short of getting explorer title in LK before I even leveled up one level (I later found a spot I could have walked to to discover that subzone). But after I'd already explored Jade Forest, the excitement of exploring it was already felt. It's not that flying took away that sense of awe. Having already done it did. Flying just added a new perspective, where there was a different sense of awe.
And if they don't add flying to any of the patches' new zones (or Ashran), I can get that too. It's been ok on a small scale, like in Thunder Isle and Timeless Isle. But I do keep a stack of golden gliders on every non-engineer character. But I already played the game where you had to run everywhere or double back both before and after using a flight path. It was tedious. It's not just players who have rose-colored nostalgia glasses, devs can have them too.
I went from being excited and curious about new models, garrisons, and lore questions like if Draenor was in an alternate universe, or if just Draenor was duplicated. Now I've gone from "pretty certain" I'd get the expansion to "maybe, I'm playing it by ear". I'm glad I didn't pre-order. I'd feel like having ordered a pizza, and then being told it may or may not have two slices already eaten. And that the delivery driver was probably hungry.
Wain wrote:I'm more concerned over suggestions that the Timeless Isle is any model for what is to come. I can only hope that the Timeless Isle isn't a model but rather the product of neglect from their attentions being spent on Draenor.
Even as ranged, I haven't found Timeless Isle compelling content. My main isn't even honored yet.
Timeless Isle was only interesting for me the first time around. I basically only spent one day there to go sightseeing, find some of the treasure chests (the mechanics for reaching them were fun in some cases), but I have zero desire to stay and grind there or do dailies at all, free gear or not.
I enjoy the Timeless Isle more then the Trhone of thunder place. That place is just depression island man. It's so dark and gloomy @.@
I've been farming for that Golden cloud serpent mount from the rep guy in Timeless Isle and I've only been able to do that because it has not made me feel sad like that place
I have nothing against the Timeless Isle. I have done all the quest lines, including the Kairoz ones but I do not have or care much about getting the exalted rep. That is far too much of a grind.
Danielfboone wrote:The play it by ear absolutely could go either way. That's why I say it's up to those of us who want to be able to fly to make our voices heard. It just seems from all the comments by Blizzard people that at this time, they are leaning towards making Draenor a flightless zone.
May seem like that to you, maybe. To me, it seems the exact opposite since they stated flying would be allowed in 6.1(from the article I linked previously). *shrug* Could that change? Yeah, sure, but I highly doubt it.
That all depends on who you want to listen to. A mere CM like Bashiok whose job is to attempt to keep things positive and who has no input to design decisions, or main development people like Afrasiabi and Stockton. Even Ghostcrawler, before he left, had negative things to say about flying and whether it should ever have been added to the game. All Bashiok said was that no changes have been made to the original plan, YET.
Of course we have to wait until at least beta to really have our input be influential. Right now, all they will do is say "wait until you actually try the content". That is another strong indicator of the direction they are leaning.
I've been farming the white raptor. Talk about -grind-. @_@ (And I started doing it on someone who isn't a skinner, so all the wasted leather just kind of galls me, but what can you do.)
I didn't like Isle of Thunder either but was motivated to do it because I really wanted the dino mount. (I still haven't managed to get one off a warbringer.)
someday I'll find someplace to host a sig that isn't stupid money-grubbing photobucket
I've been farming the white raptor. Talk about -grind-. @_@ (And I started doing it on someone who isn't a skinner, so all the wasted leather just kind of galls me, but what can you do.)
I didn't like Isle of Thunder either but was motivated to do it because I really wanted the dino mount. (I still haven't managed to get one off a warbringer.)
LOL I won't farm for the white raptor either. I have the red and green ones but of course, the one I really wanted from the beginning was the black one. Getting the Direhorn mount in Isle of Thunder was really not a grind. It was just a reward of following the story and didn't take any unusual effort or time to get.
cowmuflage wrote:I enjoy the Timeless Isle more then the Trhone of thunder place. That place is just depression island man. It's so dark and gloomy @.@
I've been farming for that Golden cloud serpent mount from the rep guy in Timeless Isle and I've only been able to do that because it has not made me feel sad like that place
I agree. The Timeless isle has been alot better then Thunder Isle. I don't mind it and free loot is free (I have banked so much every alt is taken care of lol). The pets where fun to collect too (except Gu'chi you can go DIAF you stupid bug aaaaaaaaaaah!). I'd hate it on a PVP server thats for sure though!
Wain sounds like you missed the fun and games of the Isle of Quel'danas!! That was a similuar experience in BC where people stacked on FP's and flagged themselves....mob stealing and dragging elementals onto everyone lol!
Castile wrote:the fun and games of the Isle of Quel'danas!!!
OMG, that was crazy! On our realm when the blacksmith was due to open up, the Ally/Horde balance on the sever was like 3.5 Ally to 1 Horde and of course they all flagged up. It was impossible to click on the vendor without flagging and they just destroyed you. They did this for hours! It's the only time I've seen a GM step in, They literally came in a booted the majority of the flagged (It's a PvE Realm) from the area. It was a little shocking as shitty as 1/2 my guild was flagged by miss clicking (some of them joining the fray) and most got booted too. But those that weren't were very very happy
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