Why should SV / MM hunters get Exotic Beast families?

[Nevar]

Personally I think rework it - make every pet tamable by every spec but give BM something else new. For those of you that say well I'm BM and I stay it because I love my pets - I'm an MM hunter and I ADORE My Loque and ADORE my devilsaur - I raid with a cat because hes one of the few options I have that I like. I dont really like wolves so I dont raid with one. Given the chance to raid with my Loque I'd love it.. I dont enjoy the BM spec as it is..when they nerfed it and made it kind of poor - it can perform well enough but everyone knows that MM takes the cake. I love the MM playstyle.. I just want my favorite pets in it too. I'm sorry if that makes some Bm hunters go well gimme what you have and blah blah etc - my point is when it all comes down to it.. I love my pets and wish I could use them as MM because in the end were all hunters here are we not?

[cowmuflage]

^ thats what i think too.

[Aquillian]

Ouch, why such virulence? I miss my exotic pets when I'm marks, is that so wrong? (Not that I don't adore my wolf... Old Cliff Jumper has long been my favorite wolf skin, and I finally found him just a week ago <3) I mean... they are /pets/, not abilities. I love both marks and BM for playstyle. Personally, I'd rather see BM get a signature shot to equalize it better, and be able to have any pet I'd like by my side, regardless of spec.

EDIT: Nevar said it better than I did, oops. *points to Nevar's post*

[Vephriel]

Well, this thread is mostly just speculative brainstorming.

Naturally I don't think that MM or SV hunters don't care about their pets. There is no blanket statement you can throw over any of the talent specs like that. What I personally find is that there are hunters out there who don't care about the pet aspect of the class at all. And that leads me to find interest in the possibility of a non-pet talent tree. I'm not saying it has to be MM, or SV. If something like that was ever implemented I'm sure every one of the specs would be drastically changed.

Slickrock's idea of even a spec where one could choose to either have a pet or not seemed worth some thought, that's all.

As for the Exotic argument, I can't say I have an opinion with that really. As it stands currently I like that it's BM exclusive as it gives this spec a unique flavor. /shrug

[Slickrock]

Who says you would get nothing in return? you might get something good like er i dunno extra pet buffs or something that would fit in with the BM theme unlike giveing them more shots unless the shots buffed the pet or something.

Well, I was just answering the "We want exotics too!" QQ.

But, like I said, if MM had the same pets as BM, and still did more damage like it did now, just why would someone in end-game content choose BM?.. because the pets get big and red? I don't think so.

[Nevar]

Aye it could be interesting yes but I personally have my own idea for the new end game Bm talent why not give them something called - The Pack - They retain the extra talent points they got from being able to tame exotics but now they can control two pets at once. I wouldnt care It'd be fine with me as long as I can have my Loque..

[cowmuflage]

Well we don't really know do we intill cata comes out heck BM could be the "uber" spec at 85 and stuff :S Its a waiting game and we shall wait!

(this has nothing to do with thsi but i'm on my lvl 70 ally druid atm and want to get SFK done but can't find any quests for it anyone know if there are ally quests for it?)

[Nevar]

Also very true all 3 specs saw top end damage in wrath and are constantly changing so no one can ever say for sure. (Nope there are not except for the level 20 paladin quest)

[Aquillian]

BM isn't even that terrible for raiding if done right. Before my hunter retired from raiding (for unrelated reasons; raid needed another healer ) he did several of the fights in ICC as BM and was always at least within 100 or so DPS of the other hunter, who raids as SV. Now for things like hardmode blood queen or Lich King (the spirits *shudder*) I would imagine you'd want to go Marks or SV, sure, but a lot of times, as long as you're speccing/gearing/gemming/playing to the best of your abilities, you can excel with any spec. At least, that has been my experience -- take it with a considerably sized grain of salt =P

[Dweezill]

I really don't want to see Exotic pets tamable by any other spec. But, if Blizz did decide to make exotics tamable by all hunters, we still have one thing that seperates us from other specs.... Bestal Wrath! If Blizz wanted to buff up Bestal Wrath a good bit, i would almost not mind losing my ability to tame those spakley pets. So, I would say, combine Bestial Wrath and The beast Within, move it to our 51-point talent, and buff it up drastically and I may be ok with losing "exotic" pets tot he other tree. We still have something to set us apart, we would get a raise in dps, and MB would maybe not be the "running joke" of the hunter world

[Vephriel]

BM isn't even that terrible for raiding if done right. Before my hunter retired from raiding (for unrelated reasons; raid needed another healer ) he did several of the fights in ICC as BM and was always at least within 100 or so DPS of the other hunter, who raids as SV. Now for things like hardmode blood queen or Lich King (the spirits *shudder*) I would imagine you'd want to go Marks or SV, sure, but a lot of times, as long as you're speccing/gearing/gemming/playing to the best of your abilities, you can excel with any spec. At least, that has been my experience -- take it with a considerably sized grain of salt =P

I pugged ICC as BM and I did just fine the entire run. We cleared the initial 4 bosses. It was my very first time going in there, and I didn't get any complaints about showing up with a Devilsaur or anything.

It's not quite on topic, but I just wanted to quote something BRK posted recently on his blog that I really liked:

Let’s say that Survivalist gets nerfed to the ground in Cataclysm and Tier 218 gear will allow the best Survivalist hunter in the world to max-out at 20,000 dps.

But then we find out that Marksmanship is jacked up and wigged out, and Tier 218 gear will allow a person who buys a hunter on eBay to do 29,000 dps without learning which way of the gun is forward.

Is this a gear-problem, a player-problem, or a spec-problem? It’s the spec, obviously, and that means math is our enemy. This is what we don’t want to see; our spec chosen because the math says we must.

If we can play BM and get within 3% of the best cookie-cutter spec the EJs of the world says we would if we went Marksmanship, then we’re coming with our Spirit Beast, dang it! But if we’re 15% below the standard for our class — which is kinda what happened with the Great BM Nerf — then we’ll have to go Survivalist or Marksmanship because it’s stupid not too.

If we’re a good BM hunter, we want to raid as a BM hunter and not be denied because of the mathematical realities of the spec, foshizzle. The min-maxers will min and they will max, and they will come up with a spec that they can argue about and tweak and post articles about. We will bring Spirit Beast Hobbes and have Fun!

[Aquillian]

Cheers Vephriel ^_^ I like hearing about people playing the way they want, with the pets they want. Hehe. Devilsaurs in ICC are too fun. I loved seeing Krush dashing around, blending in with all the slime in Rotface's room =P

[Palladiamorsdeus]

The only way it'd be even kind of feasible for the otehr two tree's to have exotic's would be if Blizzard reworked the BM tree to fit in something else unique. When people say "Well give us explosive shot/chimera shot" they aren't being literal. They are saying that in order for us to lose something unique to us, we'd need to gain something ELSE unique to us, and a lot of us have been clamoring for a unique shot.

As for the 'petless MM/SV' debate, easy solution. Just make it a talent that confers a buff if the hunters pet is alive but currently dismissed. Make it a 15 or a 20% damage increase, which ever is closer to the portion of damage done by the hunters pet in those tree's. Then you can take the point and be petless if you want it, or you can not and keep your pet. Simple, and everyone wins.

[Nevar]

Aye it could be interesting yes but I personally have my own idea for the new end game Bm talent why not give them something called - The Pack - They retain the extra talent points they got from being able to tame exotics but now they can control two pets at once. I wouldnt care It'd be fine with me as long as I can have my Loque..

Like I said ^^^^ New Talent - right there

[Shandorei]

I would only agree for exotics for all speccs for one reason.

If BM got equivalents for shots like MM and SV have.

Sofar all we get is a nature version of Steady Shot that most likely will get the same buffs and bonuses that we already have for Steady in the BM tree.

So if SV and MM want a Devilsaur?

Fine.

Give me your Explosive Shot and or Black Arrow, or give me Chimera Shot and or Silence Shot.

But what's the difference between the specs then?..

Simply. This is were it must stop, you give arms warrior Titan's Grip, and do Bladestorm.



Mixing up specs because "dat elitist dere is too elitist to respec bcuz dat spec suxx" and that he want what he can't get, I'd love to have the 10k each tick Exp Shot, but I CAN'T. Simple, I would be FURIOUS if blizzard lose the grip and make all pets in the world tameable, that is just crossing the line. That is where BM will lose its signature
You don't get what I'm saying- BM wanting Explosive/Black Arrow and or Chimera/Silence shot is NO DIFFERENT than MM or Surv wanting Exotics tameable by ALL speccs.

[Shandorei]

I'd still like to see a Ranger class made... Something that doesn't get pets, but can Either be like a MM hunter, or a Rogue, or some third spec, that way, the fools who just use pets as stat sticks can either re-roll or be left out by true hunters. That, and I'd just love to have something similar to how Legolas can fight. LoTR ftw. =)

And I would disagree on your statement about how Exotics are the only thing keeping BM 'afloat' Kryte. Hell, with how I've seen some hardcore BM raiders do things, and put their adversaries in their places, i wouldn't even call it a 'Drowning' spec.

I don't raid, so I can't really speak to the viability of anything. I'm basing my argument on the doom and gloom pronouncements in this thread, that BM would be a dead spec if not for exotics. To me, that sounds ridiculous. Now, I love pets, but that ultimately comes down to saying, "I'm only this spec because of a cosmetic." That, to me, is messed up. A person should be, say, speccing Shadow because they like the spec, not because Shadow form turns them purple. If that really is the only reason that people spec BM, then there's something fundamentally wrong with the spec, and it should be reworked.

We spec BM, because we want to be their support, we want them to be strong, and perhaps unique to us.. The last talent there, excites the spec even more and give us a opportunity to get our own special pet, I think, in my opinion, that we "deserve" this seeing as we specced totally and only for our companion to be as good, atleast nearly as good as us. This is as I've said a BMs true signature, on my BM hunter, I have only exotics, and one wolf, which I only take up when the RL demands it. Taking the pets the few of us only can tame, and be proud of... Taking away that talent would remove some of my heart from the BM tree, but I wouldn't change anyway, because is still remains the "Pet spec"

I couldn't see this happen, it is our LAST TALENT dude, what is it that doesn't click? GIEF B. Arrow, Exp. Shot, Silence, and Ch. Shot... It just isn't correct giving this to MM / SV, they have their thing, we have our thing... What would be left in the BM tree then? Woah strong pets, exciting. *sarcasm*

[Saturo]

Make it a 15 or a 20% damage increase, which ever is closer to the portion of damage done by the hunters pet in those tree's. Then you can take the point and be petless if you want it, or you can not and keep your pet. Simple, and everyone wins.

The pet for a MM hunter is closer to 5% of his total damage, but I'd LOVE that buff! xD

[Shandorei]

Ouch, why such virulence? I miss my exotic pets when I'm marks, is that so wrong? (Not that I don't adore my wolf... Old Cliff Jumper has long been my favorite wolf skin, and I finally found him just a week ago <3) I mean... they are /pets/, not abilities. I love both marks and BM for playstyle. Personally, I'd rather see BM get a signature shot to equalize it better, and be able to have any pet I'd like by my side, regardless of spec.

EDIT: Nevar said it better than I did, oops. *points to Nevar's post*

I think you miss the point abit, every single spec(almost) have signatures from what their spec is built upon.

Survivial and Marksmanship spec = A signature shot,


Beastmastery is built on a spec improving the pet = Signature pets


Removing the "ability" of having a pet as signature, is like removing its nature. We don't want a signature shot, just because you (not you, but all) MM / SV hunters like the shot.

[Nevar]

No offense but your being way to harsh based on someones opinion... Maybe this should be closed as its getting a bit out of hand when others are simply expressing their opinions and why they feel that way...

[Aquillian]

With all due respect, I have to imagine that everyone has different reasons for their spec. I do not solely spec BM because of the exotic pets (though I did roll a hunter for pets in general : ) ) -- I spec BM because I like all the useful talents it has, such as stuns, lowered CD on master's call, the 3% damage boost to my fellow players, bestial wrath, etcetera. This is perhaps why you're so vexed by other people having different ideas? I can see what you are getting at though, right now it is what makes BM so /visibly/ special. For me, it's the rest of the spec that already makes it special, and I often find myself wishing it had a signature shot to add to the rotation, and that I could use any pet I wanted in any spec, period. For you obviously what makes it special is having access to pets that no other spec can have. I suppose it all comes down to personal preference, like anything else... very curious to see how Cataclysm handles it in any case. Hopefully in a way that will please at least most hunters.

EDITED EDIT: Previous statement is no longer true or needed :3