What happened to Shatterspear Village?

[Saturo]

Because it is GARROSH that we are talking about. The man who almost single-handed started a war between the alliance and the horde, right in northrend, right as Arthas was going "Hey guys! Die now!" from Icecrown Citadel. He's a moron, and no amount of lorefuck will change that.

[Cerah]

/applaudes Saturo

[Senna-Umbreon]

Because, the Night Elves haven't given them ANY trouble 'til now, so why would they if the Shatterspear hadn't been forced to rile them up? And I know because Garrosh is the type of person to slaughter anyone who disobeys him. Hell, just for unknowingly helping some NPC who got manipulated by a demon, Garrosh threatens to BE-HEAD the player.

*Edit*

/applaudes Saturo

I totally second that! /cheer

[VelkynKarma]

My problem with Garrosh is he doesn't think before he acts, and he's a grudge-holder. I've seen his discussions in Warsong Hold (Borean Tundra) before...he wants to just charge in and slaughter the opposing side without thinking of the ramifications of his actions. Because he hates them. No other real reason for it.

Now granted, the Alliance is at war with the Horde. It's been going on for a very long time now. It probably won't change either, although I do love thinking about how the two sides could get together.

But lore-wise it's also been proven they CAN work together, and recognize the value of each others' strengths too. Look at the Wrathgate (before Putress got involved). We had Horde and Alliance battling together against a common enemy, and it was an absolutely badass scene. They can work together if they have to, and they HAVE worked together before, and could continue to do so--or even just ignore each other--as long as they don't actively try to stir up the problem. A simple 'you leave me alone, and I'll leave you alone' could work just as well.

Garrosh doesn't think about this. He doesn't think about ANYTHING his actions could cause, except if it directly affects him. For example the only reason he helps the Tauren after Cairne was killed in their duel is because he doesn't want to look dishonorable and he holds a grudge against Magatha for poisoning his blade. It's not because he really thinks they need or deserve the help. He helped them because he was pissed.

Garrosh, in short, flies into action without thinking, and he holds grudges. Neither quality is suitable or acceptable in a leader. It's just dangerous, because they have the power to get thousands of people killed because they're annoyed.

(This is also why I dislike Varian for the record; he is another hot-headed grudge-holder. Dangerous).

~VelkynKarma

[Vephriel]

I dislike Garrosh as a character...I hold no fealty towards him at all, however I am absolutely thrilled at his addition to the storyline. Why? Because it's exactly what is needed. A foil to Thrall, a wrench tossed into the grand scheme of things. Though I hate him and his attitude/views, I am loving what he brings to the plot itself. Horde politics are in turmoil, and this is the kind of spice that tantalizes with a promise of things to come. I'm on the edge of my seat for everything that's unfolding. I love the complexity of the Horde right now. It's exciting. Garrosh is a character that's meant to be hated. He has a role to play that goes beyond any sort of player fondness.

I know there will be people who disagree with me on this, I'm too weary to start a back-and-forth argument, so I'll just leave it at that for my personal reasons of liking his role in the game.

[Gumballs]

I think the relations between the Horde and the Alliance in Cataclysm, or even the friction between the factions and their own members, is amazing. I really like Garrosh, if only because he brings (what I think) is much needed drama and tension between the races in this game. I think what Blizzard did with this expansion is great. It makes us (IC and out) question our leaders, and maybe realize its not all sunshine and daisies... bad shit happens, and not everything is black or white.

And that being said, I definitely think it is NOT fair to call someone a griefer for the simple fact they like Garrosh and you don't. It's immature and really unneeded. After all, this is a video game right? No need to hurl insults at each other, and this is directed at everyone because I know how quickly things can be turned into a flame war.

Of course I think its absolutely terrible that the Shatterspears are being killed. I have RP'd multiple Shatterspear trolls as well as made my home there in some big RPs on Wowheads forums.

Its' awful that they were pretty much forced into a situation and the elves just said 'okay kill them all.' I remember reading a discussion about one of the Alliance quests when this was in beta that pretty much said 'kill every man woman and child in that village'. I don't know how to find the quest so I am not sure if it's still in game as I am not Alliance.

Anyways, I still think its an amazing thing to do from a neutral standpoint to make people feel some actual emotions (sadness, rage, betrayal, hurt, etc.) and get more IC (and OOC as we see) reactions from this game and the decisions our leaders make.

Edit: Veph beat me too it.

[Vephriel]

I think the relations between the Horde and the Alliance in Cataclysm, or even the friction between the factions and their own members, is amazing. I really like Garrosh, if only because he brings (what I think) is much needed drama and tension between the races in this game. [...]It makes us question our leaders, and maybe realize its not all sunshine and daisies... bad shit happens, and not everything is black or white.

Anyways, I still think its an amazing thing to do from a neutral standpoint to make people feel some actual emotions (sadness, rage, betrayal, hurt, etc.) and get more IC (and OOC as we see) reactions from this game and the decisions our leaders make.

Yes! ^^ Well said. Those are my thoughts too.

[Lazuly]

Mmhm. I feel so sorry for the Tauren lately... They've lost at least two outposts, their LEADER, and their original homeland... I mean, they've cut themselves off from THE BARRENS, which was where they lived until the Centaur drove them out. What's even worse is that Camp Taurajo is hardly any sort of 'war camp' or anything.. Lore-wise, it's full of civilians. And yet the Alliance still attacked.. For no fricken reason! It drives me insane how stupid and cruel they are.

One thing that Cata is doing right, is giving each race a REASON for fighting with the other side. I will admit, that before the Taurajo massacre, Laz really didn't have personal bad feelings towards the Alliance besides the Dwarves for encroaching into Mulgore and the Barrens. But the Taurajo attack made things personal for every Tauren, whereas before it was more that they fought the Alliance mostly out of loyalty to their allies.

[cowmuflage]

I am with Vephriel on this. The story really needed someone like him to spice it up as really the story would of just gottern stale and boreing. The horde story seems to have had more thougt put into it in cata then the alliance has and well I welcome it really spices things up in a good way. Now people can't truely say one side is "good" and the other is "bad" now as both have done both good and bad things and both have leaders who act before thinking now.

[Gimlion]

I slightly wish I was far more involved in the Horde Leaders lore/plot, as personally, in the Alliance, I don't see any drama other than Magni turning stone... And that'll take, what? Another Major patch before the Gnomes figure it out??

However, I strongly DISLIKE (yeah, I said it) the tensions between the Horde and Alliance from a 'Civilian/Soldier' standpoint. They worked SO hard in Wrath to cut these tensions and unite to fight a greater power, only to make that a moot point b/c in Cata it's "Oh we all hate eachother again!!".

Obviously from a fan Standpoint, it adds a lot of story, conflict, and WTFing, but it doesn't make sense for two such powers, that combined, with whatever other help they can find (other Aspects?!) could probably take care of the Corrupted Aspect... They took care of one of them already. It could be done again if they weren't too busy with their heads up eachother's asses screaming about who's wrong or right (Yeah, that's you Varian [Though he has a decent reason] and Garrosh).

And am I the only one noticing the common theme of Corrupt Aspects and Old Gods in Azeroth/WoW/expacs? It's nice that they have all this to build on, but It sometimes gets old when you're pretty used to the whole Old God/Dragon Aspect thing... And with freaking 4 (I think, or more?) Old Gods left, and the Emerald Dream, that's at least another 5 times I can almost guarantee we'll see the theme show up again...

[Agravaine]

Thats also not really why the night elves hate the orcs, though.

The orcs slew Malorne...

The night elves will never forgive them for that.

Er, sorry to nitpick, but the orcs slew Cenarius. Malorne was slain by Archimonde. Same sad result as you observed, though.

[12gunner]

Alright that's it I'm making a check list of new alliance areas to obliterate starting with this. The alliance went way to far and now they are going to pay for hurting my favorite trolls!

[Slickrock]

Eh, to you Horde fans, I could argue Southshore is a pretty nice example of Horde being evil. Granted, that's the Forsaken, so it's a stretch...But Southshore wasn't the most militaristic of towns either.

Meh. I don't know enough about lore and whatnot to argue much. Carry on. I'll just keep loving my NE druid and my human lock. (No, really. I am really loving my lock. It's scary. >.>)

I'd say that's quite different. The Forsaken did that due to how they were treated by the humans for something THEY COULDN'T CONTROL. How would you like it if you got turned into a zombie and had your family try to kill you for something had you no control over? That's what the humans did to the Forsaken. That, and as Sylvanas has stated, Forsaken are unable to reproduce, hence.. They kind of need a way to, you know.. Not die out? (...... The Forsaken are kind of reminding me of the Dusk, now that I think about it >.>)

Also.. The Night Elves lashed out at the Trolls for, again, something they really had no control over. The Shatterspear tribe would have been murdered by Garrosh if they disobeyed him. Which is why they started cutting down trees and stuff... And then the Night Elves attacked. I seriously do not think that's fair. Cause either way, the tribe is going to get murdered. Seriously? That's a horrible ending for a tribe that really wanted nothing to do with anyone else in the world. They were just happy with dancing in their little village, and they would still be like that if Garrosh hadn't been a jerk and the Night Elves hadn't been so "MY TREEEEESSSS YOU'RE KILLING THEEEEMMMMMMM YOU DIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEHYZTJSERTHYZSKRFTHZJR"

Always someone else's fault, now isn't it?.. The NE are defending their forests, and the humans were trying to exterminate an abomination. You think the Forsaken are even supposed to exist? You think the Forsaken would leave peaceably with humankind?

[Slickrock]

Alright that's it I'm making a check list of new alliance areas to obliterate starting with this. The alliance went way to far and now they are going to pay for hurting my favorite trolls!

Bring it.

[Saturo]

So, just because they're undead, you support a genocide, Slick?

[Aleu]

I always kinda thought Night Elves were the most prejudice race. << >> Just from my standpoint on them and how I've viewed them for a while. (Although Elves in general tend to be prejudice, really. X()

Garrosh, in short, flies into action without thinking, and he holds grudges. Neither quality is suitable or acceptable in a leader. It's just dangerous, because they have the power to get thousands of people killed because they're annoyed.

(This is also why I dislike Varian for the record; he is another hot-headed grudge-holder. Dangerous).

~VelkynKarma

^ This.

[Lisaara]

Thats also not really why the night elves hate the orcs, though.

The orcs slew Malorne...

The night elves will never forgive them for that.

Er, sorry to nitpick, but the orcs slew Cenarius. Malorne was slain by Archimonde. Same sad result as you observed, though.

Oh right, Cenarius. I was close. XD One generation. But yeah still..results are the same either way. the elves are pissed off because of it and will probably never forgive the orcs for that. No apologies necessary! You're the red shirt person of Petopia? XD

[Azunara]

Okay. I think it's time for people to cool down a bit. The hostilities in this thread are getting a biiiiit high. Just saying.

[VelkynKarma]

And am I the only one noticing the common theme of Corrupt Aspects and Old Gods in Azeroth/WoW/expacs? It's nice that they have all this to build on, but It sometimes gets old when you're pretty used to the whole Old God/Dragon Aspect thing... And with freaking 4 (I think, or more?) Old Gods left, and the Emerald Dream, that's at least another 5 times I can almost guarantee we'll see the theme show up again...

Not to mention the 'tragic hero who became an evil raid boss because he was really trying to help his people' bit.

I mean, seriosuly. Illidan, Kael'thas, Arthas....

For once I want to see an expansion villain who is the center of an expansion be genuinely EVIL.

~VelkynKarma

[cowmuflage]

Well Slickrock lore wise humans are not meant to exist aswell. They are after all the retarded kids of the vrykul and where not part of the titans plans. SHould we kill them all too?