What would people say to... (BM Exotic Redesign)

[Taaveti]

Personally, I don't have a problem with certain pets being only usable for BM specs (purely appearance-wise), exotic beasts are supposed to be exotic, they are supposed to be untamable and uncontrollable by regular hunters, and will only bow into submission (or fight alongside at its only will) to those most experienced with beasts. With that in mind, I will be against the idea of letting SV/MM hunters to use any of the exotic beasts. Whether you 'think' you should be able to use 'any pet you want' does not matter to this in my opinion, I think I deserve to win the lottery too, but does that automatically means I should actually win one?

On the other hand however, I do feel the restriction with the impression of 'being forced into using an exotic pet simply because it gets an additional ability' even though we are not, an extra skill never hurts, it may only be of minimal help (on the rare occasion of someone providing that buff/debuff died off early in the fight), but it never really hurt. Without dwelling into the coding issue that I certainly have no authority to give any opinion on, I do think the OP's suggestion can potentially be refined into a workable solution. Allowing BM hunters to pick a secondary skill for out pets does seem to be a possible workaround to make our pet choices feeling 'less limiting'.

This, however, subjects to the most problematic area of the game: balancing.
As the OP has agreed, some of the ability combination may be considered overpowered. If the current exotic pets' ability combinations were indeed carefully chosen regarding the balancing issues, then there will also have to be limits on which secondary abilities a particular pet family could train. Provided that this issue can be solved, this could widen the degree of choiced on pets for BM hunters (not to mention a ferocity pet with some kind of AE could help narrowing the gap with BM's AE damage with the other specs, since the buff to Multishot does not seem to be enough)

As for letting BMs to have 2 active pets out at the same time, I know I am not authorized to comment on the degree of coding it would require, but if we cannot ride on the camel in Halls of Origination and have our pets out at the same time (since the camel counts as an active pet in that fight), I really don't see it coming any time soon.

TL/DR version: My opinion on the OP's suggestion is:
1. No go for letting SV/MM controlling exotic pets;
2. Allowing BM to train their regular pets with a secondary ability ouf of a limited choice is possible provided that there is no problems with balancing issues (both PVE and PVP)

[Lisaara]

TL/DR version: My opinion on the OP's suggestion is:
1. No go for letting SV/MM controlling exotic pets;
2. Allowing BM to train their regular pets with a secondary ability ouf of a limited choice is possible provided that there is no problems with balancing issues (both PVE and PVP)

^ This. Totally agreed.

[Acherontia]

Thanks for the continued comments guys

Two points to point out--

BM's signature shot is Kill Command, not Intimidation--Intimidation isn't a signature, it's a spec bonus I was pointing out Kill Command because you'd (Taluwen) originally said that *exotics* were BM's Signature, and that without them, well, why not give us Aimed/Chimaera etc. Kill Command is our signature shot, not Intimidation and not Exotics.

To you saying that I'm using "we are locked into Exotics" as "an excuse"--just to point out, I believe it. Nobody's forcing me to--but nobody's forcing me to min/max, or to reforge for Arena, or to pick a good arena partner or spec for PvP. Nobody's forcing me to bring any pet at all, or putting a gun to my head forcing me to play Hunter--or WoW at all, for that matter--either. I am talking about when you want to do your best, in PvP, you HAVE to bring an exotic rather than the comparable non-exotic in a several cases.

That's not to say OMG MY IDEA IS RIGHT, but I don't want a couple facets of what I said being misinterpreted

[Lisaara]

Thanks for the continued comments guys

Two points to point out--

BM's signature shot is Kill Command, not Intimidation--Intimidation isn't a signature, it's a spec bonus I was pointing out Kill Command because you'd (Taluwen) originally said that *exotics* were BM's Signature, and that without them, well, why not give us Aimed/Chimaera etc. Kill Command is our signature shot, not Intimidation and not Exotics.

To you saying that I'm using "we are locked into Exotics" as "an excuse"--just to point out, I believe it. Nobody's forcing me to--but nobody's forcing me to min/max, or to reforge for Arena, or to pick a good arena partner or spec for PvP. Nobody's forcing me to bring any pet at all, or putting a gun to my head forcing me to play Hunter--or WoW at all, for that matter--either. I am talking about when you want to do your best, in PvP, you HAVE to bring an exotic rather than the comparable non-exotic in a several cases.

That's not to say OMG MY IDEA IS RIGHT, but I don't want a couple facets of what I said being misinterpreted

So is Aimed Shot(MM) and Chimaera Shot(SV). Those are spec bonuses. If you get exotics, then BM should get BOTH those shots. See what a problem that would cause? We inherit Intimidate for being BM. KC is used by ALL SPECS, therefore NOT the signature shot for BM because all specs have access to it. If it was the signature shot, it would be BM only.

And I'm gonna say no you dont unless you're min/maxing. Most arena hunters dont use exotics. Most I've seen and talked to use normal pets. So again, I'm gonna say and emphasize, you are NOT locked into using exotics whether it be pvp or pve. They have perks but aren't necessary. Some of the best pvp pets aren't exotic and some of the best arena teams dont use exotic pets.

[Acherontia]

Most arena hunters aren't BM. If a BM hunter in arena is using a spider over a Silithid without a priest, they're not min/maxing. If they're using a wolf over a devilsaur, they're not min/maxing. If they're using a cat over a spirit beast.... See where I'm going with this? You can't say BM has freedom of choice when taking one of those choices gimps you.

To reiterate the "signature shot": You'd said that if BM couldn't use Exotics, then we should get Aimed/Chimaera shot instead. Exotics should be replaced in that concept with Kill Command; Exotics aren't related to our shots at all. They're an entirely separate concept.

[Lisaara]

Most arena hunters aren't BM. If a BM hunter in arena is using a spider over a Silithid without a priest, they're not min/maxing. If they're using a wolf over a devilsaur, they're not min/maxing. If they're using a cat over a spirit beast.... See where I'm going with this? You can't say BM has freedom of choice when taking one of those choices gimps you.

To reiterate the "signature shot": You'd said that if BM couldn't use Exotics, then we should get Aimed/Chimaera shot instead. Exotics should be replaced in that concept with Kill Command; Exotics aren't related to our shots at all. They're an entirely separate concept.

I've seen BM hunters kick butt using plain pets. So yes I can say being BM has freedom in PvP and I can say I highly doubt Blizzard will change it because it would cause a huge uproar.

Exotics are the perk for getting a craptastic shot(Intimidate) for speccing into BM. So no, they're more closely related than you may think. Plus, again, Lore. MM would be shot dead if caught with a corehound rather than a sneaky stealthy cat. Why? Corehounds are noisy. BMs dont sneak around like the MM ranger does. BMs are on the frontline with their pets in brute force.

Anyway....it's simple as this. BM gets the big buff pets. MM/SV get fancy powerful shots as it should be.

[Acherontia]

Yes, Exotics are a core part of being BM. That does not make them our signature shot.

And I completely disagree with the idea that we have freedom of choice; I think that if a BM hunter takes a standard pet rather than the exotic counterpart for Arena, they're just plain bad. Sorry.

I won't belabor these points anymore, as it's going nowhere.

[Lisaara]

Yes, Exotics are a core part of being BM. That does not make them our signature shot.

And I completely disagree with the idea that we have freedom of choice; I think that if a BM hunter takes a standard pet rather than the exotic counterpart for Arena, they're just plain bad. Sorry.

I won't belabor these points anymore, as it's going nowhere.

So you're assuming someone's bad just because they're not pvping the way you think they should despite they're doing just fine? I fail to see the logic in that, but thats just me. :/ I judge by skill. If they do something thats working for them, kudos to them. I won't call someone a baddie because it's not the same way I pvp.

[Acherontia]

Like I said, the argument's going nowhere. This is what I meant when I said "please don't let the discussion get too heated." Just drop it.

[Worba]

What would you all say if, tomorrow, this was in the patchnotes?

The tag "exotic" has been removed from some pets called Exotic.

Instead, Beast Mastery hunters may now visit a hunter trainer to add a second buff of their choice to each of their pets, previously only available to Exotic pets:

* Prayer of Fortitude equivalent
* Blessing of Kings equivalent
* Spirit Mend equivalent
* Bloodlust equivalent
* AoE damage
* Mortal Strike effect

In other words, a BM hunter could run with a Spirit Mend wolf, a BoK raptor, or an MS Scorpid. A NON-BM hunter could use a Spirit Beast that still has Roar of Courage but no Spirit Mend, etc.

Now, this is just a casual idea, so please don't let the discussion get too heated. I know that in the past, topics about Exotics being made available to all got hot. But the reasoning behind the post is this: I'm just curious about what people feel the pros and cons of this would be.

For me,

The Cons:

* It would make the Exotic pets less of a commodity/rarity
* It would make rare Exotics, such as spirit beasts, *potentially* harder to get due to *possibly* increased competition (although it's quite possible that many non-BM hunters have BM offspecs)
* In PvP it'd be harder to get a quick idea of an enemy hunter's spec & abilities

The Pros:

* BM hunters wouldn't be "locked" into only using Exotic pets
* BM hunters would have some customization of pets, which I think is a pretty neat idea
* All hunters would have all "pet content" available to them, meaning that hard work on exotics isn't wasted, and that all specs of hunters aren't "locked out" of using a pet they may love the looks of

Your thoughts?

There's actually a much simpler and IMO better way to make exotics more accessible...

Make tame exotics a core passive.

That way, they're still reserved for BM spec, but just like how MM starts with aimed shot, and SV starts with explosive shot, BM would now start with exotics.

Proper / common sense scaling moots any questions about bloodlust or the like.

This would use the strengths of the post 4.0 talent system to make BM what it was always meant to be - having to wait till 60 for exotics became antiquated in 3.0 and pushing it to 69 in 4.0 imo was frankly shortsighted, backwards and just ... bad.

Give lvl 10-20 BM hunters something to get excited about too!

[Slivers]

Although I like the original idea, I would prioritize this above the other changes:

- Allows the Hunter to assign each pet to a family; Cunning, Ferocity, or Tenacity

[Tulune]

I hate the idea of spec only pets. If MM and SV could tame "exotics", i would drop my BM spec for MM (my main spec is SV) Alas, I have a few exotic pets I would miss so I keep my secondary spec BM.