Crappy Groups

[Saturo]

Indeed, Velkyn. Just read up before you go in, or ask, and it'll be fine. If anyone dies, it's not your fault, it's because of the bad explaining.

[VelkynKarma]

Yeah, normally I DO try to read ahead of time, I don't like going in unprepared. This one just caught me by surprise, 'cause I thought I couldn't random into any of the ICC ones yet due to gear requirements. But if what Kalliope said was true, and the requirements got dropped...well, I won't fall for that mistake again. I'll read up on these fights before I try randoming again. XD

~VelkynKarma

[Kalliope]

I suppose that's a possibility too. There were a lot of Mirrored Souls going on there, before and after I died, it was hard to keep track of'em all. Especially when I was busy panicking over what I might or might not have done wrong.

Oh! The healer was also a paladin, too. I imagine that would be a tough boss to heal as a pally? When a number of people are taking damage all at once? The tank from the boss, plus people getting swarmed, plus the mirror souls...?

~VelkynKarma

Yes indeed! Pallies can have a rough go of it on that fight. BoP won't save anyone from mirrored souls, for the most part, and if people take a lot of AoE damage from being careless or undergeared (or both), in addition to not grouping up, it could get ugly.

[Anansi]

The Devourer of Souls can't really be healed through by anyone, people really need to not stand in the stuff they shouldn't stand in, which some advance reading will tell you about.

Velkyn, if you're finding that you're getting FoS in your random, you might want to read up on the other two instances, Pit of Saron and Hall of Reflection, just to be on the safe side

[Sarayana]

Velkyn, if you're finding that you're getting FoS in your random, you might want to read up on the other two instances, Pit of Saron and Hall of Reflection, just to be on the safe side

She'd have to do the quest before it'd let her in there though..

[VelkynKarma]

I'd rather be on the safe side and just know what I'm doing. Like Kalli suggested, I think I'll just read up on each fight and do them on Regular, so I know what I'm doing. That way if I get random'd into them in the future at least I'm not caught flat footed like I was today.

~VelkynKarma

[Kalliope]

Velkyn, if you're finding that you're getting FoS in your random, you might want to read up on the other two instances, Pit of Saron and Hall of Reflection, just to be on the safe side

She'd have to do the quest before it'd let her in there though..

Nope, you can get randomed in as long as you've done the instance prior (FoS->PoS->HoR). The quests are just an added bonus for gold/badges. The attunement is linked to completion of the instances.

You'll be fine, Velk!

[Sarayana]

Nope, you can get randomed in as long as you've done the instance prior (FoS->PoS->HoR). The quests are just an added bonus for gold/badges. The attunement is linked to completion of the instances.

Huh. I thought the quest was the lock... oh well. It is a nice little badge boost.

[VelkynKarma]

That's what I initially thought too, Sara. And since I figured Sil wasn't quite geared for the instance, I wouldn't do the quests until I'd earned more badge rewards or gotten lucky with other heroic drops, and THEN I'd try the ICC heroics. Which is why I was totally stunned when the loading screen popped and I didn't recognize it at all...and then I phased in, and it was DEFINITELY Forge of Souls...

Now that I know it can happen though, I'm forewarned. I'll be more prepared now. Plus if I happen to get random'd into one of those, the loot drops can help considerably I suppose...

~VelkynKarma

[Sarayana]

That's what I initially thought too, Sara. And since I figured Sil wasn't quite geared for the instance, I wouldn't do the quests until I'd earned more badge rewards or gotten lucky with other heroic drops, and THEN I'd try the ICC heroics. Which is why I was totally stunned when the loading screen popped and I didn't recognize it at all...and then I phased in, and it was DEFINITELY Forge of Souls...

Now that I know it can happen though, I'm forewarned. I'll be more prepared now. Plus if I happen to get random'd into one of those, the loot drops can help considerably I suppose...

~VelkynKarma

Well once you know the fights it's really just a matter of getting lucky with the random dungeon finder. A decent tank and healer can make the dungeon, but someone that can't heal through the party damage or a tank that doesn't know how to pull those groups? It's rough.

If you really can get randomed in there now, I'd recommend running them regularly, on both regular and heroic. The gear is NICE. Aside from the ICC tanking gun, the crossbow from Ick is the best ranged weapon if you don't raid.

And honestly, once you know the fights that'll make up for much gear discrepancy. I've seen well-geared people do STUPID things in there (like suicide on Garfrost because they don't clear the debuff behind the boulders). Can't dps when you're dead, you know...

[Golden]

So, I've been into leveling my Mage lately - she's almost 78 noe, just need 10% more exp. I entered a random dungeon queue and got Violet Hold. Summoned a table, buffed up, the portals started to spawn... And then I noticed that our tank was a lv80 moonkin. @.@ Before I noticed the level, I said "druid, you're tank", to which he replied "mage, you're dps". Surprisingly enough, everything went fairly well, seeing as the druid was in very good gear.

The DK in the group dings and gets lots of grats, when suddenly he, along with the druid, drop group just as a group of trash step out of a new portal, leaving me, an ele shaman and the priest healer to take care of everything. -.-

[Kalliope]

Heroic HoR is as much about the dps being smart and taking down the rogues first, then the priests, then the rest. Focused fire is key on those waves. Sure, gear helps with facerolling it, but having smart dps is better. A friend and I did the instance once (me on my prot pally, him on his pretty decently geared dk - he needed the boots still at that point, but was fine otherwise) with two mages in ilevel 200 blues. My friend carried the dps in terms of firepower, but the mages knew what they were doing, so we got through it fine.

That's terrible, Safri. >_< Not only do I hate people who pull crap like that (dinging and leaving), but that dk could have tanked himself. There was no need for an owl tank, even if he was capable.

[Anansi]

So, I've been into leveling my Mage lately - she's almost 78 noe, just need 10% more exp. I entered a random dungeon queue and got Violet Hold. Summoned a table, buffed up, the portals started to spawn... And then I noticed that our tank was a lv80 moonkin. @.@ Before I noticed the level, I said "druid, you're tank", to which he replied "mage, you're dps". Surprisingly enough, everything went fairly well, seeing as the druid was in very good gear.

The DK in the group dings and gets lots of grats, when suddenly he, along with the druid, drop group just as a group of trash step out of a new portal, leaving me, an ele shaman and the priest healer to take care of everything. -.-

Wow, that's the sort of thing that makes you lose any faith in humanity you may possess. Sadly, there are more than too many people who play this game solely to grief other players because they lack the intelligence to find anything to do more rewarding than being complete assholes.

When people behave like that it makes me question why I play this game but at the same time it is still fun or at least routine enough to keep me going!

Heroic HoR is as much about the dps being smart and taking down the rogues first, then the priests, then the rest. Focused fire is key on those waves. Sure, gear helps with facerolling it, but having smart dps is better. A friend and I did the instance once (me on my prot pally, him on his pretty decently geared dk - he needed the boots still at that point, but was fine otherwise) with two mages in ilevel 200 blues. My friend carried the dps in terms of firepower, but the mages knew what they were doing, so we got through it fine.

Yeah, being smart about HoR is more important than being able to overpower the fights. Although I tend to find it better to take down the mages first, followed by the priests and hunters, and let the melee handle the rogues and warriors. Sometimes though the tank requests a very specific kill order and there's often a reason for that request, so I go with that. Lacking any request, I follow the kill casters first rule which is usually effective.

[Ryai]

Left my name unedited.

Basically went like this; tank ignored runner. Runner grabbed friends. Runners grabbed more friends. Healer was like afk, idk, she wasn't healing the tank and had plenty of mana. Then shit hit the fan and she was like refusing to heal us. Then she died, and refused to use SS until I reminded her but by then it was to late and she just idled about doing nothing except running up and down, letting the mobs hit her, instead of you know getting out of the dungeon or healing me.

We wipe.

And it somehow is all our fault for using Life Tap. Or something.

[Mockingbird]

Left my name unedited.

Basically went like this; tank ignored runner. Runner grabbed friends. Runners grabbed more friends. Healer was like afk, idk, she wasn't healing the tank and had plenty of mana. Then shit hit the fan and she was like refusing to heal us. Then she died, and refused to use SS until I reminded her but by then it was to late and she just idled about doing nothing except running up and down, letting the mobs hit her, instead of you know getting out of the dungeon or healing me.

We wipe.

And it somehow is all our fault for using Life Tap. Or something.

Did they remove curse of recklessness?

In other news, had a fun failPuG yesterday.
UK (normal) - halfway to first boss healer "feels tired" and quits group.
-new healer, then at first boss, all goes fine. At second boss (barbarian and mage), tank will only aggro one of the two. Wipe. We ask him to get threat on both and apparently "fuk yuo yor all retarted." aaaaaaand tank quits.
- new tank joins. Second healer leaves because guild mates asking him for something. He is apologetic about it. Seems fair enough.
- New healer joins. Joins with no mana, in shadow spec. First words (before "hello" which he never said) are "gogogogoggogo"
- Tank is discussing tactics, having never done the instance before. Super healer says "STFU and pull, it's easy I tank it all the time with my tank." "gogogo" "pull".
- Healer "just pull, I'll show you" - casts smite on a boss (I think the second boss - we had reset the instance by now). Dies. Blames tank. Refuses to accept that the whole group corpserunning is more of a delay than waiting 10 secs for the tank.
- Next pull, says "screw you guys" and leaves group. My shaman buddy keeps the tank up and we survive just fine. He mentions he had to 'help out' our mouthy healer several times.
- finally, new healer arrives, and we complete the instance happily and steadily.

Phew

[Kalliope]

Yeah, being smart about HoR is more important than being able to overpower the fights. Although I tend to find it better to take down the mages first, followed by the priests and hunters, and let the melee handle the rogues and warriors. Sometimes though the tank requests a very specific kill order and there's often a reason for that request, so I go with that. Lacking any request, I follow the kill casters first rule which is usually effective.

It depends on the group's makeup too. If there's a pally in the group to AoE stun, pretty much any order works, as long as there's focused fire. But those rogue stuns are just awful on dk tanks in particular, since icebound isn't up for every pull. I personally like having control of my character as a tank, so I prefer the rogues. The mages are a good choice too in that they don't move too well, since it's difficult to lock them out of both schools at the same time, so only certain classes can reel them in. Only dks can reel in the hunters, which makes them a good choice as well. If dps is being clowny or is low, killing the priests early on is a good idea, just to stop the healing - but at least they tend to move into melee.

Did they remove curse of recklessness?

Yes, it was merged with curse of weakness some time ago. Curse of exhaustion would work, but that's a level 30 spell. The only thing Ryai could have done there was made sure the runners died, hoping that someone else would slow them. The healer sounds dumb, but so does the rest of the dps....and of course, the tank didn't pull back far enough.

As for the UK run, which of the bosses did the tank not have aggro on? Because the warlock is pretty much untankable. You get his melee hits, but he casts on whoever he wants. Sounds like a fun run, though, heh. Had so many like that, it's not even funny. >_<

[Ryai]

Yes, it was merged with curse of weakness some time ago. Curse of exhaustion would work, but that's a level 30 spell. The only thing Ryai could have done there was made sure the runners died, hoping that someone else would slow them. The healer sounds dumb, but so does the rest of the dps....and of course, the tank didn't pull back far enough.

I thought Recklessness just lowered armor. But Curse of Exhaustion wouldn't have helped either >_<

See it was Stockades, so already the mobs are close together, even if you can't see. It started off alright, we managed to dps down the first two no problem. Tank starts to hurtle off, hunter stupidly cuts it to close to the door. I say stupidly cause when the mobs aggroed and started pounding on him, he didn't recall his pet, use a trap nor Disengage. He did nuthin.

Then the paladin completely ignored him so I'm having to spam my dots on 4 mobs and then focus fire the ones on the hunter, I down one alright, and start doing the other.

DEFIAS DORK FLEES IN FEAR.

And LoS's me before I can do anything, I go ogod cause as my drain life finally kills him, defias dorkwad got friends.

And it went to hell from there, healer didn't heal tank, runners scattered, the other warlock went oom, the hunter's scorpid died, he died, I died, healer died again.

[Kalliope]

Yes, it was merged with curse of weakness some time ago. Curse of exhaustion would work, but that's a level 30 spell. The only thing Ryai could have done there was made sure the runners died, hoping that someone else would slow them. The healer sounds dumb, but so does the rest of the dps....and of course, the tank didn't pull back far enough.

I thought Recklessness just lowered armor. But Curse of Exhaustion wouldn't have helped either >_<

Recklessness also made the target unable to flee and upped their melee attack power (?!). It was really nice for control. Exhaustion works like slow, so at least it would have been something. Bad hunter, not dropping frost traps. :/ Assuming he had them....he at least had conc shot. -_-

[Anansi]

Wow.
"I've got no problem with big pulls as long as I just have to heal tank" and admonishing you for using Life Tap in combat? Yikes. Someone has a lot to learn about healing and they certainly should take out that lack of knowledge on the rest of the group.

[Kalliope]

BTW, Ryai, what class was the healer?