just a thought

[Vephriel]

I don't think I even want to read through the cyclical argument I just skimmed over, but I'll just comment that I don't see how a single common Spirit Beast takes away from the rest of the family at all.

People go nuts for Sambas, King Krush, Madexx, Aotona, etc. Those pets are from families that are filled with common models, yet no one's bothered by that fact. Spirit Beasts would almost be the polar opposite - a family full of rares with one common mob.

There will still be a ton of other hard-to-find Spirit Beasts to 'collect' or go after. Hell, there's even Olm the Wise who could almost be considered a Spirit Beast in appearance, and yet he's just a regular owl. The only barriers and devaluations are the ones that you apply yourself. Spirit Beasts are a dime a dozen in any case, just about everyone has them, so it just seems silly to try to claim one common mob would somehow ruin the entire family.

[Golden]

Just cause you fail to see the point its dose not mean not there

Please, just take a moment to realize that that exact could just as well be said to you. ^^ By being open to other people's opinions, they may often open up to yours, too.

Also..

... that's just how it is blizzard likes to put rare things in the game like that take more than just the common player to get.

Do they put in rare things because they want to or because we ask for them? ;)

I actually think it would cause a bit of harm to the community. There goes your good luck charms, the heart felt "aww, that sucks that it got ganked from you" threads, the joy of posting that victorious screen shot of you and your new shiny Spirit Beast you saw on Petopia at level 10.

I don't really understand this... Spirit Beasts are far from being the only pets people make taming topics for here. There's topics for everything from the newest Firelands rares all the way to those really lowbie ones that don't even have a unique skin. How would having a common Spirit Beast affect that?

It's not like this common Spirit Beast would use any of our current Spirit Beast skins or in any way change the ones you've already tamed. All it would do is give those of us who don't wish to spend hours camping a chance to have a pet that can heal them. Because our way of enjoying the game is NOT the only one or even remotely the most important, and I think we should respect that.

[Dr. Rockso]

whats the harm of keeping it rare there are tons of pet classes out there that are common there is no harm at all in keeping it rare. Common pet classes keep the people that dont want to hunt happy and the ONE rare class can keep the people that like to have a challenge happy.

Do they put in rare things because they want to or because we ask for them?

Cause they want to thats a no brainer Blizzard is gona do what they want no matter what we can ask till we a blue in the face and yes they will listen to our suggestion but in the end blizzard dose what they want. that being said i believe blizzard wants to keep them rare cause this suggestion has been around ever since the first spirit beast came out and they still remain rare and i think blizzard is doing the right ting by doing that.

[Lupis]

The harm is that some people might want a spirit beast for raiding or dungeons and might not get one because it's rare and they don't have time (for real life reasons or other) to get one, or have gone through such heartbreak over the rares that they just don't want to camp anymore. Besides, I don't know how many times this has been said…. ONE rare SB will not make the entire family common. ^.^ It'll just make that specific skin common. Honestly, Sambas is still rare and sought out, but you can get cats easily, and there's no uproar.

[CrystalKitten]

whats the harm of keeping it rare there are tons of pet classes out there that are common there is no harm at all in keeping it rare. Common pet classes keep the people that dont want to hunt happy and the ONE rare class can keep the people that like to have a challenge happy.

There are still rare "challenges" for other people. King Krush, Aotona, the REST of the spirit beasts, etc etc. If spirit beasts had NO extra abilities, there would be "no harm", but they do. They have the heal. Hence, those who don't have time to camp constantly, or who don't WANT to spend days stuck at home because they want.. <.< I dunno, a life miss out. I'm not trying to knock one living/playing style over another... But is it "fair" that people who decide to make real life family, friends and activities more important miss out on an (I guess arguably) EXTREMELY useful ability?

Alsoo.. as said... Those who want a challenge still HAVE that.. Adding in a rare doesn't change that at ALL. And, I would personally argue that having "no life" (again, not knocking it.. that's my state right now, heh) and sitting at home (whether at the computer, or 5 ft away with npcscan on) is definitely NOT a challenge.

[Golden]

Cause they want to thats a no brainer Blizzard is gona do what they want no matter what we can ask till we a blue in the face and yes they will listen to our suggestion but in the end blizzard dose what they want. that being said i believe blizzard wants to keep them rare cause this suggestion has been around ever since the first spirit beast came out and they still remain rare and i think blizzard is doing the right ting by doing that.

I wouldn't be so sure... Blizzard didn't put in all that many unique, challenging tames until we started begging for them back in Wrath. They may do the last call, but I'm sure they listen to their consumers to some extent.

But please Dr. Rockso, if you don't feel like giving any thought to what other people have said in the past five pages of back and forth, why do you still come to the topic? :)

[Dr. Rockso]

The harm is that some people might want a spirit beast for raiding or dungeons and might not get one because it's rare and they don't have time (for real life reasons or other) to get one, or have gone through such heartbreak over the rares that they just don't want to camp anymore. Besides, I don't know how many times this has been said…. ONE rare SB will not make the entire family common. ^.^ It'll just make that specific skin common. Honestly, Sambas is still rare and sought out, but you can get cats easily, and there's no uproar.

actually having a comon mob of the family dose make the family/ability common the skin is what makes them rare when it comes to common mobs, and there is no uproar cause Cats have always been common just like spirit beats have always been rare.

[Lupis]

…What? O.o
How does having one common spirit beast make Loque'nahak common? Or Skoll, Ankha, Arcturis…?

[Ocyen]

Of course I go to sleep and wake up to a billion replies so now I have to make tl;dr post in return.

Also.. as to the comment of "all" spirit beasts requiring a grueling camp.. One word.. Ghostcrawler. I love my Sparkles.. but not many others seem to.. as he's up almost EVERY time I go check for the seahorsie...

Any time I have mentioned hard work/camping/competition, I speak of the experience of others; not me. Every single unique and rare pet; heck any pet I have wanted has been up when I go and tame it (not counting the Molten Front ones). My significant other (Twigget) has personally threatened to have a doctor appointment setup for me that includes a lot of KY jelly and a latex glove to remove the horseshoe from my deeper colon regions. For me it's usually the circumstances I am facing at the moment when trying to tame said beast. That's -my- thrill of the hunt. A rare provides some competition (or grief) for those trying to tame it.

I am however not opposed to say some other family having a healing ability as they do. I propose that these rare spirit beasts remain as they are, rare. While there is a common family of beasts with a similar healing ability. Just asking however for something because you think you deserve it. It's like going to work and demanding a raise when all you do is sit on break. The game is easy enough, it's only going to get easier. You no longer have to feed your pet, it now scales to your level, hell there's no more ammo. Now you want one of the last families with no common model to be just given out after some are still trying to get the pets they want?

This has degenerated into what seems to be the haves vs. the have-nots. The casual vs. the hardcore. Clearly, no side is going to give in to the other on the debate. As my above sentence in bold shows, I can find a middle ground; but for those of us who want to keep them rare...can nobody else see what we are getting at? It's not a matter of being selfish, it's a matter of investment and opinion.

I don't really understand this... Spirit Beasts are far from being the only pets people make taming topics for here. There's topics for everything from the newest Firelands rares all the way to those really lowbie ones that don't even have a unique skin. How would having a common Spirit Beast affect that?

When I said Spirit Beast, I used an example. Someone later down the line mentioned Sambas (he's not a Spirit Beast); but his model is unique. Should we throw his skin (with a different color of course!) onto another pet and make it common? I'll continue this below.

Ocyen;; And there is where I, personally, would have to disagree with you. It would not devalue any posts, pets, or screenshots, unless the taker and maker is the one devaluing. Very few people on this forum would ever tell you that your common pet is worth less than your rare one. Many of us feel the opposite way: people bash on commons so... commonly that we can't help but protect our babies. Sure, I have rares. And yes, I love them dearly. But on my main, my go-to pet is the ghost saber I've had since level 22. On Aela, my alt, it's Cayenne, the common red fox who I ran all the way to Loch Modan to get as a level 16 blood elf leveling in the Forsaken areas. That run was the most painful thing I have ever done. It was worse than my camps for TLPD, Loque, and Arcturis all put together.

I'm very sorry that you have seen little other than rares in your time here so far. But that's not what we're about here at Petopia; it's not what we're about at all. We are about being hunters, being a community, and loving our pets. We are not about trophies and shinies, though we will always welcome those who are

I don't bash on commons at all, in fact if you look at my recent contributions to the Pet Tame Challenge thread--rare or not I still put in effort and detail into my reports on every beast I tame. My favorite pet, out of all the shiny I have is my common Rhino found in NR: Rhinox. I love that big bastard. He and I are gonna chase double rainbows while frolicking through lightning storms while riding Great White Sharks. That's how awesome we are.

We have things like the "The Consolation Corner" stickied on the forum and yet you say "I'm very sorry that you have seen little other than rares in your time here so far" when a large percentage of the posts there and in the Taming thread, etc. are about rares. These are trophies, these are goals set before us. So what is wrong about asking for one class of pet to remain rare as it always has while maybe giving a similar ability to a common mob?

Maybe I need to reword my rebuttal? That not just Spirit Beasts, but if it's rare it should remain as such. I agree that some middle ground could be reached on the matter, to cater to everyone. At the end of the day, there's going to be people unhappy with any decision (even if it is speculation and wishing at this point).

Finally, for those seeing some sort of circle argument/debate in anything that someone says here...I disagree. I see new and valid points springing up all over. There's no name-calling or bashing (at least on my part), just a debate.

[Dr. Rockso]

whats the harm of keeping it rare there are tons of pet classes out there that are common there is no harm at all in keeping it rare. Common pet classes keep the people that dont want to hunt happy and the ONE rare class can keep the people that like to have a challenge happy.

There are still rare "challenges" for other people. King Krush, Aotona, the REST of the spirit beasts, etc etc. If spirit beasts had NO extra abilities, there would be "no harm", but they do. They have the heal. Hence, those who don't have time to camp constantly, or who don't WANT to spend days stuck at home because they want.. <.< I dunno, a life miss out. I'm not trying to knock one living/playing style over another... But is it "fair" that people who decide to make real life family, friends and activities more important miss out on an (I guess arguably) EXTREMELY useful ability?

Alsoo.. as said... Those who want a challenge still HAVE that.. Adding in a rare doesn't change that at ALL. And, I would personally argue that having "no life" (again, not knocking it.. that's my state right now, heh) and sitting at home (whether at the computer, or 5 ft away with npcscan on) is definitely NOT a challenge.

well then i guess they will just have to miss out if they dont want to take the time to hunt it, its like a heroic raid alot of people dont have the time to get geared and get the fights learned but they seem to be ok with that. Like i said the Spirit beats is a good representation of the thrill of the hunt and you are rewarded with that hunt with this unique pet family that took a little effort to get if you make it common its like taking that reward away

[Golden]

I don't really understand this... Spirit Beasts are far from being the only pets people make taming topics for here. There's topics for everything from the newest Firelands rares all the way to those really lowbie ones that don't even have a unique skin. How would having a common Spirit Beast affect that?

When I said Spirit Beast, I used an example. Someone later down the line mentioned Sambas (he's not a Spirit Beast); but his model is unique. Should we throw his skin (with a different color of course!) onto another pet and make it common? I'll continue this below.

Can you please point me to a post where anyone has suggested that any of the current Spirit Beast skins would be made common? Sure, there was too much for me to read so I went through the topic rather quickly, but all I saw was people suggesting new looks.

But I am serious now. Dr. Rockso, if you are unwilling to take anything the rest of us have to say to account without dismissing it with the same you've been saying for the past five (six?) pages, you can't possibly expect us to keep reconsidering the single point until it starts making sense. Unless you try to bring in a new viewpoint to your opinion, I can assure you it won't.

Edit: And looks like I'm getting too heated, so might be a good idea to keep myself from posting here from now on. ;)

[Lupis]

And that, Ocyen, I can at least partially agree with. (And thank the gods, you posted an intelligent and well worded debate. It's a welcome sight.) That is, the "middle ground" thing. While I still don't think that the game will end when a common SB comes out, I can see people being happy enough with the heal being given to a different family as well. That would leave SB's as special but still give the heal to those who need it.

[CrystalKitten]

The difference between this and a raid... You can do research on a raid. You CAN do things to speed up your ability to find it. Plus, it requires skill, and the ability to learn. That is what makes something a challenge. Not being able to sit somewhere for 3 months cause every time you pass out to sleep, or go to the bathroom, or go outside, etc someone comes by and kills/tames the thing you've been waiting for....

And it's not a matter of not "wanting" to take the time. Some people have work, studying, classes, friends, etc that need to be dealt with/done. Why should someone who is working their butt off to pay for university, and then having 5 days of classes for most of the day, miss out on being able to have a sweet pvp pocket healer for their ONE day a week when they can actually dedicate a larger chunk of time to playing (for example)? Why is someone who has "no life" given something special? That's pretty much the point I'm making, as you either need to have "no life" or be SEVERELY lucky to get some of the rares.

But that's about all I have to add to this debate, anything else will just be repeating over and over again, which is what you're arguments largely seem to be, Rockso.

Disclaimer: Once again, not saying having "no life" is bad Just using the term to illustrate my example.

Giving the heal to another beast could work, but I'm not sure where it would fit in. The heal kinda works on the spirit beast cause they're kind of.. mystical to begin with. What other family could, even remotely, have the ability to heal? Only thing I could really think of would be something like the worm, or an insect, having like.. "cauterizing acid" or something <.< Does a small-ish amount of damage to begin with, but has a HoT that heals for 3-4x that much (without crits) overall.

But yes.. i Have no new, original arguments to be made, so I'll stop encouraging cyclical arguments, and likely not post unless some counter I have to make, or agreement, is an entirely new idea

[Dr. Rockso]

But I am serious now. Dr. Rockso, if you are unwilling to take anything the rest of us have to say to account without dismissing it with the same you've been saying for the past five (six?) pages, you can't possibly expect us to keep reconsidering the single point until it starts making sense. Unless you try to bring in a new viewpoint to your opinion, I can assure you it won't.

Edit: And looks like I'm getting too heated, so might be a good idea to keep myself from posting here from now on.

i dont know hot to make it make anymore seance really the rare pet family keeps the rare hunters happy and all the other common family's keep the people who dont want to hunt for rare things happy

[Golden]

But I am serious now. Dr. Rockso, if you are unwilling to take anything the rest of us have to say to account without dismissing it with the same you've been saying for the past five (six?) pages, you can't possibly expect us to keep reconsidering the single point until it starts making sense. Unless you try to bring in a new viewpoint to your opinion, I can assure you it won't.

Edit: And looks like I'm getting too heated, so might be a good idea to keep myself from posting here from now on. ;)

i dont know hot to make it make anymore seance really the rare pet family keeps the rare hunters happy and all the other common family's keep the people who dont want to hunt for rare things happy

Last post I swear. <.<

How would having a single common Spirit Beast make any of the rare pet hunters any less happy? Apart from the illusion of being one of the chosen few to own a Spirit Beast... Which doesn't make any sense to me anyway, because there never was this secret club for Spirit Beast owners to begin with.

Just as an example... I have three Hunters in Cataclysm, and a couple more still leveling. All of the high enough level have at least one Spirit Beast, one of them is my "Collector" who will eventually have them all.
Having tamed every single Spirit Beast twice, four, even five or six times ever since the beginning of Wrath, I'm growing really tired of the camping. Does my lack of interest to do the exact same camps take away my right to have a pet capable of healing me on those of my Hunters that have yet to reach the appropriate level?
If you are planning to answer that the Wrath Spirit Beasts are so easy to find that I wouldn't need to camp for long anyway... How does that differ from having a Spirit Beasts that is always sure to be up?

[Azunara]

Ijomi: N'aaaw, you're making me feel less like Azunara, THE THREAD ENDER. (Ha, play on Thrym, the HOPE ENDER. )

Once more though, the world will not explode or end if there is a common spirit beast. As far as I know, there are only two things that would reasonably make the world explode:

-Sitting on the table and eating off a chair.
-Steve Jobs using a PC.

Until either of those events occur, the world is perfectly safe.

Thread-Lightening-Silliness aside, I honestly don't think there will be too many catastrophic effects if there is a common spirit beast. So what? In a family of rares, there is one common. People who want a heal, but don't want to camp can go common. People who want to waste hours looking for a rare (More power to you, I suppose, but people as a rule like to take the easy way out) have plenty of other rares to hunt. If we are comparing this to a raid, then I don't want to run the same dungeon over and over to get that one piece of gear I need. If I can buy an upgrade considerably easier, I'll do that.

I like the idea of it patting the whole zone. So it's common, but you have to find it. And a mini-pet would make it useful for everyone, like Crystal agreed. I mean, that way, it's not a 'HUNTER ONLY' thing, which I think is half the problem with MF rares. They're 'uber special hunter only', so people want to kill them to make them miserable. I never heard Jadefang griefing. I always hear Kirix/Deth/Skitter/Solix/Anthriss/Sparklelegs griefing stories.

[Kurenio]

i dont know hot to make it make anymore seance really the rare pet family keeps the rare hunters happy and all the other common family's keep the people who dont want to hunt for rare things happy

The rare hunters a keep happy by having more rares to hunt and more stable slots to keep their trophies not because 1 specific family is only made up of rare mobs. it doesn't matter if there is a common mob in that family as long as there are rares in that family. Even then a rare hunter is more so happy to go after hard to obtain spawn then rares themselves. Like for instance back in wrath the cats that spawn during the Auriaya encounter. Now those were a rare sight when did you ever see a hunter with one back then? or one of the beetles from Anub'rehkan (even though we really didn't know about the tiny beetle back then). Ya the wrath rares were a nightmare to see alive to be able to tame, but the tame itself wasn't that hard. These 2 specific common mobs were harder to obtain then all the rares in wrath combined back at 80 cap. Therefor they were a lot more rare then any rare. How would I know this? I am a rare hunter I specifically go after the hardest mobs to obtain to make my pets. Now I'm also a look hunter I won't tame something If I don't like it's look. Either way with 9 rare spirit beast and 2 unused spirit beast models I feel one of those 2 unused models should be put in game as a common mob somewhere.

[Serenith]

But I am serious now. Dr. Rockso, if you are unwilling to take anything the rest of us have to say to account without dismissing it with the same you've been saying for the past five (six?) pages, you can't possibly expect us to keep reconsidering the single point until it starts making sense. Unless you try to bring in a new viewpoint to your opinion, I can assure you it won't.

Edit: And looks like I'm getting too heated, so might be a good idea to keep myself from posting here from now on.

i dont know hot to make it make anymore seance really the rare pet family keeps the rare hunters happy and all the other common family's keep the people who dont want to hunt for rare things happy

Well, that may make sense to you, it sorta doesn't to me. Rares are still rares, but for the BM hunter who wants a spirit beast to enjoy the family without the hassle of rare camping, a common spirit beast addition would be a great option for them.

[Feralclaw]

But I am serious now. Dr. Rockso, if you are unwilling to take anything the rest of us have to say to account without dismissing it with the same you've been saying for the past five (six?) pages, you can't possibly expect us to keep reconsidering the single point until it starts making sense. Unless you try to bring in a new viewpoint to your opinion, I can assure you it won't.

Edit: And looks like I'm getting too heated, so might be a good idea to keep myself from posting here from now on.

i dont know hot to make it make anymore seance really the rare pet family keeps the rare hunters happy and all the other common family's keep the people who dont want to hunt for rare things happy

Well, that may make sense to you, it sorta doesn't to me. Rares are still rares, but for the BM hunter who wants a spirit beast to enjoy the family without the hassle of rare camping, a common spirit beast addition would be a great option for them.

Agreed. Some people, like CrystalKitten said above, have a job, family, and friends, and don't have time to camp all day, so a common addition to a popular family that pretty much every BM hunter has would be great for those people.

[Ocyen]

Can you please point me to a post where anyone has suggested that any of the current Spirit Beast skins would be made common? Sure, there was too much for me to read so I went through the topic rather quickly, but all I saw was people suggesting new looks.

But you have to remember, when it comes to the Blizzard art department it's easier to rehash than make new. If this was to come to pass, I can totally see a Skoll with slightly different colors being made that common Spirit Beast instead of a new pet, leaving the new to be a rare.

And that, Ocyen, I can at least partially agree with. (And thank the gods, you posted an intelligent and well worded debate. It's a welcome sight.) That is, the "middle ground" thing. While I still don't think that the game will end when a common SB comes out, I can see people being happy enough with the heal being given to a different family as well. That would leave SB's as special but still give the heal to those who need it.

I don't think the game will end either, I am just presenting counter-arguments to the "common" idea. As far as I can tell through the mess, it's all about the heal and less of the look. So again: Another family, which leads to...

Giving the heal to another beast could work, but I'm not sure where it would fit in. The heal kinda works on the spirit beast cause they're kind of.. mystical to begin with. What other family could, even remotely, have the ability to heal? Only thing I could really think of would be something like the worm, or an insect, having like.. "cauterizing acid" or something <.< Does a small-ish amount of damage to begin with, but has a HoT that heals for 3-4x that much (without crits) overall.

Now we're on track. What could be a mob that has this ability? Could it possibly be a new type of creature? Mayhap a mini Fae-Dragon of some sort? Does it NEED to have the label <Spirit Beast>? To me, that label is what defines a rare since I first wanted Skoll. Not the silver dragon border, just one class of pet that stands out above others.

Basically, this solves the 2 main issues (for ability at least).

1. I want my rares...rare.
2. I want it easier to get!

Both sides are happy, each side gets the pocket heal. But these are my own thoughts on the matter and how I perceive Spirit Beasts, that "mystical creature". The strange thing is, I have seen a few posts about players and their alts collecting these beasts...why? Why get the same thing on multiple characters? /scratch head

Thread-Lightening-Silliness aside, I honestly don't think there will be too many catastrophic effects if there is a common spirit beast. So what? In a family of rares, there is one common. People who want a heal, but don't want to camp can go common. People who want to waste hours looking for a rare (More power to you, I suppose, but people as a rule like to take the easy way out) have plenty of other rares to hunt. If we are comparing this to a raid, then I don't want to run the same dungeon over and over to get that one piece of gear I need. If I can buy an upgrade considerably easier, I'll do that.

I never take the easy way out. I always go for what is going to challenge me and not faceroll any tame/encounter. That's just my playing style though. For example, my small note on the Orange Turtle challenge tame...what did I go for first? Cranky Benj, the rare. Failing to get that because I riddled him with bullets to prevent the opposing faction from finishing the tame, I then went and tamed the normal version. It's just how I roll, but yes--give a casual player something of equal value. I am for it, something new and fresh