I've done the unthinkable.....

[Rhyela]

Ok, so it wasn't too terribly unthinkable. I'll try to make this as short as possible. I've been BM for a very long time. Very, veeeery long time. Like.....five years almost. Doing ICC and random dailies every week has gotten me a little bored with BM. Lord, I love my pets dearly, especially Apollyon, but to be quite honest, I've just been getting bored of doing the same thing in every instance/raid/soloing, and kind of tired of using the same pet. Yeah, I can use one of my two spirit beasts, but still.....when I'm BM, the only thing that feels totally right being by my side is Apollyon. So...I dual-specced Survival. :O I know, right?! Me, being something other than BM!?! I haven't quite got all my stuff regemmed (5/9 gems, *groan*), and I haven't gotten all my glyphs yet, as I decided to do this at about midnight. But, playing around with the target dummy trying to figure out a rotation and how I want my hotkeys assigned, I was actually having a lot of fun. I like seeing stuff blow up and there are just so many crits and things that can go off! It's a bit more entertaining than BM for the hunter. The pets in SV I'm sure will pale in comparison to a giant red devilsaur. But I digress. So now, gems and all that aside, my next challenge is which pet to go with for SV. The obvious answer is the wolf, but I don't want to do that. At least not yet. I was itching to go back and get Rhytil, my Outland carrion bird, but our warrior tank keeps Demo Shout up. Crap. I'd use a kitty, but...eh...I used one for a long time and I dunno, not ready to try one out just yet. I dislike the wasps' butts and the hyenas' uniboob. So really, I'm left with moths and raptors. I think I'll try a raptor. But really, what do you all think? Would I be alright taking a raptor or even a carrion bird (since I just adore that model so much) into ICC? I'm guessing my dps will be a wee bit better as SV but I have yet to find out for sure, especially with my gems and such being all snarfled up (yes, snarfled...I'm allowed to make up words at 2:00 a.m.). I'm just looking at this green mottled raptor and thinking how he sort of reminds me of a mini-Apollyon. But then, do I really want another green dino? Hehe.....I'm really thinking of just getting my carrion bird and seeing how he does. But I do appreciate your all's opinion, too. <3

Thanks guys!!!

Edit: I did some quick digging, and found this section. According to this, the carrion bird does the biggest damage with demoralizing screech, second to the devilsaur. At least, if I read that correctly. So single-target damage, its screech would do more damage than a cat or raptor (without the buff) or hyena, etc. Did I read that right? If so, that makes me excited because I could justify bringing my birdy regardless of whether or not the AP debuff applies.

[Slickrock]

I'd vote raptor. Too many damn wolves in raids. Wasp, even though you don't like them, might provide better dps.

Since my dual BM experiment failed, I might play around with SV again, if I can find a way to macro the rotation... MM is just too cooldown driven for me.

But yeah, raptor...

[Nevar]

My opinion is go with who you want I go with Mamoru my white lion and while he isnt "the best" I love him dearly and dont want to raid with anyone else other than him Course my stables are 99% cats BUT thats not the point - my point is take who you want your dps may not be the absolute best but you'd be enjoying yourself wouldnt you?

[Acherontia]

As far as I know, raptors are right up there near wolves in combined hunter/pet dps, and with certain stats are actually your top pet. I can't remember what it was but I think it was very high %crit. You'd have to web search to be sure.

Either way I think go with whatever pet fits you, it's not going to be a huge difference in any case.

[Rhyela]

If I can get away with it, I really want to go get Rhytil back. I know he wasn't anything magnificent, but that birdy was with me for quite a while and for some reason, I really bonded with him. So as long as he isn't a complete detriment to the raid (which I can't imagine it being any more than a couple hundred dps difference), I think I'll try that out. If worst comes to worst, I'll go to the next best thing, a raptor.

Thank you for your input, I so appreciate it!!! Holy crap, just realized it's nearly 3 a.m. and I gotta wake up in about 5 hours. X_x Oops!

[zedxrgal]

I was also going to say a raptor but hey, if you miss your bird and had a connection with that animal take the chance and tame it again. If it doesn't work out between you two this time, as in the connection isn't strong or there then tame the raptor.
Tame the Gundrak raptor! Color changing rules.

[Tyuriwen]

There is absolutely no problem with taking either pet into ICC, since if your guild/groups were fine with you being BM, they will most definately be fine with your choice in pets now that your own damage will have increased tenfold (I myself was shocked at the DPS increase when I dual specced Surv, and I've also been trying out MM for some time).

EDIT: And also, pet choice isn't as vital in Surv/MM compared with BM, since your pet is only doing about 15-20% of your damage. =)

I love raptors. <3 Especially the Green Outland ones, they're the best! The colour changing one in Zul'Drak is pretty nifty too. And their DPS is right up there with wolves, I think. But when all's said and done, how about you pick up both of them, and see how you do? Try a few dummies, run a few instances, you know, and see how you feel about them both! Can have your cake and eat it too, you can always pick up the one you liked the most again! <3

[Acherontia]

There is absolutely no problem with taking either pet into ICC, since if your guild/groups were fine with you being BM, they will most definately be fine with your choice in pets now that your own damage will have increased tenfold

She makes a good point!!

Also--my carrion bird even as BM isn't a massive dps loss compared to wolf/devil.

In fact, I'm falling more in love with Snowfeather (Trachela) every day... She can tank old content as well as or better than my tank pets could, as I discovered today in ZG. I'm guessing it's down to the Screech! She'll be seeing some ICC this week I think. So don't be afraid to try it again!

[Suicune]

I found my damage (as BM) on par with well played Survival (with similar gear), MM is where you will see a damage increase that is noticeable, though I think that is when you get geared enough to go Arpen MM, but not sure. Most people don't like to min-max or anything close to it, so DPS can vary.

I felt the same way (and my guild and anyone who knows me as well!) were shocked beyond words to see me without Loque or Skoll when I switched to Surv. I had loads of fun in that spec but couldn't be happy with a particular wolf model and swapped out every few weeks. Eventually I went to MM, totally new ballgame from the MM PvP spec I had used at the end of TBC... but once I got everything set up, I had a lot of fun, though the DPS fluctuated a lot due to movement fights in ICC. But as stated, Raptor is one of the top non BM pets along with the Wolf, cat close behind. Tallstriders iirc are also being played with from what I hear (and sporebats? I forget). Don't be discouraged, your DPS will be lower at first until you get the hang of the spec. One raid should do it.

For me, since I love my Spirit Beasts and now Krush, I feel that I do my best in BM. Knowing how to play it and playing it for so long makes me even know the timing of when BWI ends so I can pop back into AotDH. For any hunter spec, and even other classes, Power Auras is a wonderful help, as are macros to help you manage yourself better. I can't wait for expanded stable so I can tame a non exotic again and try out my dusty MM spec with my newer gear.

Good luck in your new spec! It is really a lot of fun trying new specs out

[Rhyela]

@ Tyuriwen:
The problem is that I have one available slot. My current stables are King Krush, Loque'nahak, Gondria, Strider Clutchmother and an empty slot. I can't abandon any of those other pets, so I only have one slot to mess with at a time. So basically I have to get a pet, level it all the way to 80, and then hopefully not come to find out I dislike it. At least I know I love carrion birds, I was just concerned about how much of a dps loss it'd be to use a carrion bird rather than a raptor. But I think I'll get my feathered friend back and test it out.

@ Suicune:
I'm kind of the same way when it comes to BM, I love my pets and therefore I love the spec. I don't love how I've been doing the same thing for five years though. It may just be that I need a change for a few months before going back, and I can still use BM in dungeons and such. My guild wouldn't even care if I switched back and forth from one raid week to the next. They're cool like that. I'm curious what you mean when you say, "know the timing of when BWI ends so I can pop back into AotDH". I'm always in AotDH except for when I'm low on mana and switch into AotV for a few shots before going back to DH. Am I missing something? And as far as addons and macros and all that.....since the day I started playing this game I have never used a game-enhancing addon, or anything that changes my UI, and I prefer to play that way. I could probably be a little more efficient with some addons and macros (and I do use macros, but for simple things like /use trinket and /cast this and that and that), but that's just not how I enjoy playing. Maybe I'm old-fashioned or weird, and that's ok. That's just how I do things and so far, I've been successful with it.

.....There was something else I was going to say and now I can't remember. OH!!! One thing I did notice in this spec is that I don't run out of mana as fast. With BM I'd go oom pretty quickly, but with SV, it seemed like I was pelting that dummy about twice as long as what I would have before. Could be my imagination and the fact it was about 2:00 a.m.

[Suicune]

For BW/BWI my macro pops me into AotB to maximize pet damage, then I have Power Auras give me a notification when it ends so I can pop back into Dragonhawk. It's at the point that I know the timing automatically (yeh sometimes other buffs make you or your pet red for a little bit so that isn't a good indicator, and buff watching isn't good when you have an encounter going on). Power Auras also lets me know if the macro didn't fire (be it BW, or my AotDH macro). I agree change is good though, that's why I found it refreshing to run as Surv/MM for a while

[Gimlion]

Basically, any of the ferocity pets are at a close enough damage for non BM specs, that any choice you make will be fine. Of course there is the clear cut winner Wolf b/c of it's buff, but anything ferocity should be fine in MM or SV. As a BM, of course there are a few more powerful choices, those being the Devilsaur, then the Wolf, and then the Raptor. The raptor is a very high damaging pet if you micromanage a bit. His special is on a bit of a long CD, and is only useful with the proc, this means you need to ensure it to proc, which is possible by auto casting it during Cobra Strikes, promising a crit and it's buff. But, as you are talking about SV pet, yeah anything Ferocity, if you want a Carrion Bird get yourself a Carrion bird. =) And the whole mana thing, were you specced into Replenishment?

[Rhyela]

This is my first time being SV so yes, I did spec into replenishment. I'm the only hunter in the guild and (/gasp!) we don't have a ret pally. So I figured that would benefit our small 10-man raiding guild. Knowing my luck I probably did it all wrong.

I'm happy to hear I can get away with a carrion bird. I suppose I understood how a strong pet was necessary as BM but I never really quite dwelled on the fact that it would make a bigger impact in that spec than in the other two. I was still stuck on the idea that I had to find some big and beefy pet for SV but the fact is, my pet won't do as much damage no matter which one I choose. I still think the Demo Screech will help in fights like Dreamwalker when the tank can't be all over the room at once. (Really at this point, I'll use what I can to justify using him :3 )

/excited!!!

[Gimlion]

Well if you have Replenishment now, but not before that's why, and yeah Demo Screech is a very nice ability, and if Blizz does the whole buff/debuff pet ability thing in Cata, It'll be nice to see others as well.

[tramani]

i use my Aotona in raids/hc's , so u can still show of your pet while doing some decent dps with it

[Ryai]

Are you sure it'd be Carrion Birds over Devilsaurs? As in, single target dps and not cause of the AoE effect? As that's what I realized about my worm, why it was pewpewing better than my corehound on a target dummy.

I mean comparing Jareth to Aurelius, Ryai's Devilsaur and Wasp respectively, Aurelius did around 30k dps more. This is ofc probably because of her Sting debuff; and assuming you have no feral drood in the group which is a possibility for a heroic pug and possibly even a pugged raid unless they're looking for specifics.

[Rhyela]

I should have been a bit clearer (though it was butt-early), I'm sorry - I meant the carrion bird's damage was below the devilsaur, and actually from the looks of it, it's 1) Core Hound; 2) Devilsaur and 3) Carrion Bird, when you're looking at just the damage each family's skill does. Not taking into account the added bonuses such as the stacking damage of Monstrous Bite and the casting speed debuff of the lava skill. Just straight-up damage as shown on that page.

But go figure, I tamed an Outland carrion bird this evening, but it just didn't feel the same. I leveled him to 80 anyway, but I just didn't feel the same way about him now that I used to. It's odd, because I don't usually have that problem. So, I released him and headed to STV to see if I'd like one of the cats. I tried both King Bangalash and a panther, and ended up sticking with the panther. I love their smooth black color. Not a huge fan of the blocky model, but I'm usually looking at the back of it anyway and even the face isn't terrible, it's just not as nice as some newer models. But anyhow, I just gotta level my unnamed panther to 80 tomorrow before our ICC cleanup and see how we do!

(wow, my pictures always come out so dark even if I have myself and the pet targeted...need to start taking daytime shots )

[Nevar]

Grats on your new kitty! May I suggest Bankotsu for a name since right after Sesshomaru he and Koga hold a very special place in my heart And he..has..black..hair? rofl

[zedxrgal]

Congratulations on the new cat! It's a beauty.

[Tilo]

@ Rhyela - if you want your white lion back instead of the black panther just let me know via game mail & I'll be on to summon him for you no problem.