Various Vol'jin and Thrall Cataclysm Dialogs

[Valashe]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8oepFktL6A

WARNING CONTAINS SPOLIERS, CATACLYSM INFO, ETC...

[Vephriel]

I loved listening to that conversation between Thrall and Vol'jin. It's nice to hear some answers from Thrall himself, and I'm really pleased in the direction it's leading.

I heard some people were upset because they thought Blizzard had pulled a retcon on Thrall (with him suddenly talking about war instead of peace), but I don't think of it like that at all. I think Thrall is just being realistic. It's not that he doesn't want peace anymore, he just realizes that with the chaos of the world and the impending struggles, as well as the unrest of his people, he has to make the choices that will ensure their survival and freedom instead of catering to his own personal desires.

[Palladiamorsdeus]

Oh BULL!@#$. Flat out, plain old, BULL!@#$. Could they wedge in the 'redemption' of Garrosh any more? Ugh. This is stupid.

[Saturo]

If only Grom was alive, all this would never have happened...

[Vephriel]

I really don't see how it's 'wedging' in anything. First of all, it's not as though Blizzard randomly decided to change direction on the plot they were writing. They've had this all set out from the start. I think at the beginning we had very limited information so many people drew exaggerated assumptions from the small Garrosh leaks that were revealed and imagined a character in their head that's overall much more hateful, violent, and horrible than the real thing. I don't like Garrosh, I still don't and I never will. I'm just saying it's not as if his personality's done a 180. I don't see that at all.

Anyways, Thrall isn't saying that Garrosh is some grand noble hero. He knows, however, that his people would view Garrosh as having that potential. Regardless of our personal views on the matter as people, we have to think of this from the perspective of the fictional people in the WoW universe. The orcs have been restless for a long time now, Thrall knows that. In the orcish way of things Garrosh is exactly the sort of leader they've been thirsting for. Thrall is giving them what they want, most likely in hopes that it would quell a possible rebellion. We know that there are many opposed to Thrall's peaceful ways, and unfortunately for Thrall he can no longer indulge in that way of thinking. It's the time for action and he's put someone in place that others will raise their banners for and band together under.

[Palladiamorsdeus]

He can no longer indulge in that way of thinking? Really Veph? The horde and the alliance came together to defeat Arthas. They worked for the common good of everyone for a lot of this last expansion. And who, may I remind you, screwed that up? Garrosh. Giving the order to take potshots at the alliance airship in Icecrown, as WELL as the order to 'honorably' ambush the alliance WHILE THEY FOUGHT THE SCOURGE.

And THIS is the guy that Thrall is going to leave in command? Really? The guy who went out of his way to antagonize Varian Wrynn? The guy who has done his BEST to undermine the horde/alliance relations at every turn? The guy SAURFANG hates? This is SO wedged in it isn't even funny. Thrall would never, EVER have allowed Garrosh to lead the horde under ANY circumstances. This is a characterscrew in all it's glory.

[Vephriel]

Well, I really don't see it that way. /shrug

[Saturo]

They've gone too far with making him seem evil to suddenly redeem him. They could have done something great with garrosh, but they messed it all up.

[Rottingham]

They've gone too far with making him seem evil to suddenly redeem him. They could have done something great with garrosh, but they messed it all up.

Agreed. I honestly think Thrall could have left a rabid badger with a wooden leg as Warchief and it would have done better then Garrosh. I knew I'd hate him the first time I saw he had brownish-red skinand my orc couldn't get it...

But all silliness aside, I never liked Garrosh. He causes problems. Problems need solving, but his solution is to make more problems to be solved. THen those problems will be solved by problems... I really don't see this ending anytime soon...

[Kalliope]

What is all this?

There was talk of redeeming Arthas as well, and obviously, that failed. There was a very important quest chain in Icecrown that proved that the man inside was gone....and yet, in his death sequence (yes, the one that's been in the middle of Dalaran for MONTHS, so you can't get after me for spoilers -_-), the man certainly talks to his father. It's not exactly redemption, but he wasn't 100% lost either. He let go of his title.

My point is that just because there's groundwork laid for redeeming Garrosh, that certainly doesn't guarantee that that's where Blizzard will go with it.

[cowmuflage]

Shouldnt we veiw this thru orc eyes and not our own? I think it would make scence to a wow orc it sertainly would to a warhammer one but then again a warhammer one would proberly own anything they sent to disagree to it XD

[Saturo]

THe thing is, Thrall isn't just "an orc", he's THE orc! Sure, most orcs are bloodthirsty beasts, but Thrall certainly isn't! Thrall is far smarter than to think it's actually a good idea to leave Garrosh in charge.

[Gala]

Blizz loves the redemption storyline. We see it way too often. But as ive said before in another thread, i honestly dont see this becoming a typical "redemption" storyline. I would be willing to put money on the fact that before Caty is over, we will have to put Garrosh down.

[cowmuflage]

I doubt we would "put him down" as you say its more likely thrall takeing back the title of leader.

[Saturo]

I doubt we would "put him down" as you say its more likely thrall takeing back the title of leader.

If we don't get to "put him down", most Hordie players will be angry.

[cowmuflage]

Aye but then alliance players will complain that they don't get to as it would be horde only seeing as its horde lore and then they would make a shit storm and all that jazz. I see thrall doing it more than us doing it

[Saturo]

Ally players will get to kill him as a faction leader for the "For the Alliance!" achievement, so no problems there.

I can't wait to slaughter him!

[cowmuflage]

Yes but if theres a quest where horde players kill him for good as a phaseing thing for them as some people are saying then they would complain now wouldnt they?

[Saturo]

Then hordies get to kill him once, on the quest. Ally players can farm him.
Not fair!

[Kalliope]

Both sides got to kill Saurfang the Younger....

*shrug*