BM Hunter concerns

[TobiasX]

I was browsing mmo-champion earlier and came across links to some threads on the NA forums regarding dissapointment with BM's signature ability (Intimidation) and the option to tame exotic pets still being very deep in the tree. I've started up an EU thread but was curious to see what the population of petopia thought about this issue.

Below is a copy-paste of my post
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As "beta is beta" I'm hoping there is still time to offer feedback on these issues.

*** Issue 1. Intimidation: The unimpressive signature spell ***

Here is a brief summary of the current "signature" abilities for all classes and trees:

Death Knight
* Blood: Heart Strike (hits 2 targets for (100 on main, 25 on 2nd)% weapon damage + % for each disease)
* Frost: Frost Strike (% weapon damage)
* Unholy: Scourge Strike (% weapon damage + % for each disease as shadow damage)
Druid
* Balance: Starsurge (arcane / nature damage spell)
* Feral: Mangle (damage + increased damage for bleed effects for 1 minute)
* Restoration: Swiftmend (instant heal based on what HoTs are on the target)
Hunter
* Beaster Mastery: Intimidation (high threat stun)
* Marksmanship: Aimed Shot (high damage, long cast time, shot)
* Survival: Explosive Shot (Fire damage + fire DoT)
Mage
* Arcane: Arcane Barrage (instant cast arcane spell)
* Fire: Pyroblast (high damage, long cast time, fire spell)
* Frost: Summon Water Elemental (Frost damage temporary pet)
Paladin
* Holy: Holy Shock (instant heal)
* Protection: Avenger's Shield (ranged spell, which hits and silences up to 3 targets)
* Retribution: Templar's Verdict (% weapon damage based on holy power)
Priest
* Discipline: Penance (channeled single target heal)
* Holy: Holy Word: Chastise (holy damage spell)
* Shadow: Mind Flay (channeled shadow damage spell)
Rogue
* Assassination: Multilate (% weapon damage, using both weapons, and extra % if target is poisoned)
* Combat: Blade Flurry (all attacks hit an additional target)
* Subtlety: Shadowstep (move behind the current target from up to 25 yards away)
Shamman
* Elemental: Thunderstorm (damages all nearby enemies, knocking them back, and restores % of your mana)
* Enhancement: Lava Lash (200% offhand damage + % if the weapon has the Flametongue buff)
* Restoration: Earth Shield (heals the target when they take damage, 9 charges)
Warlock
* Affliction: Unstable Affliction (DoT, silences dispeller if dispelled)
* Demonology: Summon Felguard (Pet)
* Destruction: Conflagrate (instant cast fire damage spell)
Warrior
* Arms: Mortal Strike (% weapon damage and reduces healing on the target)
* Fury: Bloodthirst (damage + 1% health regenerated for the next 3 attacks within 8 seconds)
* Protection: Shield Slam (high threat attack + dispells 1 magic effect on the target)

Looking at this list, many hunters feel that Intimidation is not in the same league as the other signature abilities. Feel free to discuss what could potentially replace it, but my argument is focussed on why Intimidation needs to be replaced at all.

1. Intimidation is not iconic for the vast majority of hunters (BM or otherwise)
I'm not denying that there are people who love this ability but it is by no means something that many people associate with the tree. From personal experience I never used the ability before I started trying to solo large mobs at level 80. It only existed as something necessary to get Bestial Wrath.

2. The Beast Mastery Hunter's pet is not always a tank
Intimidation is primarily a pet tanking spell, and relies on the Hunter using their pet as a tank. Some people like to play their hunter this way, and there is nothing wrong with that, but there is also no reason to push players of any dps spec into this mentality. Using your pet as a tank should be a choice of your playstyle, not a choice of which talent tree you want to use.

3. Intimidation is not a dps ability
The main focus of all the 'pure' class talent trees, as well as the 'hybrid' class' dps trees, is causing damage. With all the other dps trees their iconic ability is something that adds to the damage they can cause. While it is nice to not be the same as every other dps talent tree being given something that does no damage whatsoever feels more like a punishment than a benefit.

Conclusion
I do not think that Intimidation is a fitting signature spell for the Beast Mastery talent tree. It isn't iconic, it relies on the player choosing to use their pet as a tank, and having something that causes no damage at all does not make Beast Master 'special' as much as 'punished'. I think Intimidation should be a trainable spell for all Hunters so that any player using their pet as a tank has access to it and should be replaced by something else as the signature spell of the Beast Mastery tree.

*** Issue 2. Exotic pets are too deep in the Beast mastery tree ***

Here is a list of the exotic pet families and the lowest level at which they can (currently) be tamed:

Chimaera: 23 (Young Chimaera in Stonetalon Mountains)
Core Hound: 12 (The Kurken in Azuremyst Isle)
Devilsaur: 54 (Devilsaur, Tyrant Devilsuar and Ironhide Devilsaur in Un'Goro Crater)
Rhino: 64 (Wooly Rhino Bull in Borean Tundra)
Silithid: 36 Rare Spawn (Silithid Ravager in Thousand Needles) or 49 (Centipaar Sandreaver and Hazzali Sandreaver in Tanaris)
Spirit Beast: 74 (Arcturis in Grizzly Hills)
Worm: 9 (Earthborer in Ragefire Chasm), 38 Rare Spawn (Oozeworm in Dustwallow Marsh) or 40 (Rock Borer in Desolace)

Currently the Beast Mastery Talent (which allows the taming of exotic pet families) is available at level 69. I think that this is far too late considering it is one of the iconic features (not abilities) of the Beast Mastery tree. To many players being a Beast Mastery Hunter means being able to have special pets that no other Hunter has access to and the idea of having to wait so far into the life of their character to get access to it turns levelling into more of a grind to that talent.

In light of this I think it would be better to make the Beast Mastery talent the 11 point talent of the tree. This would mean they gain access to it at level 29 rather than level 69.

It could be used to replace Intimidation as the tree's signature move but I think this would be a mistake. With the other 29 talent trees the signature move is a new button the player gets to push and I think that needs to stay. Also, if Beast Mastery was made the signature ability of the tree that the player gained at level 10 then it would feel less like a benefit for the BM tree and more like a negative for the other 2 trees. "I've had this pet since level 10 but I can't use it when I change spec. Why? :<". There needs to be a period of the character's life where they cannot tame exotic pets, but can tame other pets, in order for it to feel like a bonus.

Moving the Beast Mastery talent from 31 points to 11 points would keep it feeling special (they get it as their first "mile stone" talent) without turning it into a grind towards the iconic feature of the tree and still keeps it out of reach of Marksmanship and Survival Hunters.

Thoughts? Concerns? Constructive Criticism? All feedback is welcome.

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NA Suggestions forum thread: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 3213&sid=1
NA Hunters forum thread: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 6&sid=1#18
EU Cataclysm forum thread: http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.htm ... 10&sid=1#0
US Cataclysm forum thread: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 35&sid=1#0

[Sarayana]

That's a really excellent post. I can't access the forums from work, but I'll check out the thread later.

Hopefully someone at Blizz HQ will listen.

[Renle]

Yesssss more of these posts the better chance it will be noticed as a wide BM hunter concern.
/cheers

[Redith]

wow this isnt just some "BM tree sucks post" this was well thought out. Way Kudos for you my friend.

[Vephriel]

If I could post on the EU forums I would give it a bump for you. Excellently elaborated and logical post, hopefully we see something come out of it.

[Mkoll]

Kill command should be the signature ability of the BM tree.
It should be usable only by BM and have damage comparable to explosive shot and chimera shot.

[TobiasX]

Thanks for all the support and it doesn't matter too much what we get instead as long as we don't have Intimidation.

[Protego]

I'm glad you brought this topic here Tobias. Yeah, Intimidation is seriously unimpressive. And yeah, Beast Mastery, for Exotics, should come earlier.

[Kalliope]

Now THIS is an eloquent post that will hopefully garner some attention. The issues you've covered have been argued here multiple times, but never in such a concise and well-thought manner. I wish I was on the EU forums to support you, but do so here instead. Good luck drawing this to Blizzard's attention!

[Vephriel]

Perhaps someone could post this in the US forums with permission and linking to the original author and EU topic?

[Sarayana]

Perhaps someone could post this in the US forums with permission and linking to the original author and EU topic?

I was just going to suggest that, Veph. A repost on the US forums may garner much needed extra attention...

[Redith]

Perhaps someone could post this in the US forums with permission and linking to the original author and EU topic?

I was just going to suggest that, Veph. A repost on the US forums may garner much needed extra attention...

I was too. Great idea

[TobiasX]

Perhaps someone could post this in the US forums with permission and linking to the original author and EU topic?

You don't need to ask permission, just do it

Also, please tone down the praise a tiny bit. It's enough to make a man blush.

[Vephriel]

Woo! I'd do it myself, but I'm stuck at work and can't log into the WoW Forums. If anyone else wanted to go ahead we can hopefully spread the discussion there as well.

[TobiasX]

When it's posted please reply here with a link and I'll update the original post.

[Kalliope]

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 35&sid=1#0

Thread started.

[Vephriel]

Excellent Kalli, I shall be sure to reply when I'm home later.

[Adam-Savage]

That's a really excellent post. I can't access the forums from work, but I'll check out the thread later.

Hopefully someone at Blizz HQ will listen.

They should. There is quite the large number of hunters saying the same things.

[Kalliope]

That's a really excellent post. I can't access the forums from work, but I'll check out the thread later.

Hopefully someone at Blizz HQ will listen.

They should. There is quite the large number of hunters saying the same things.

But not all of them are saying them in this way, so hopefully we'll get some positive attention.

[TobiasX]

Added a link to your thread in the EU version Kalliope, in case other US posters see it and want to add their 2 cents.