Spirit Mend

[Rikaku]

Considering it comes from your pet, has no cost, and under 1min CD, and can heal for nearly 10k over it's duration, I would classify this as a strong heal. not to mention it scales with RAP so it will continue to get stronger.

I just used mine and was healed for nealy 14k over it's short duration. For a pet heal with no cost and a 28second cooldown, I'd say that is damn good.

Not to sound rude, but can I ask where you got those numbers from? I cannot fathom a 14k heal.

Using the equation posted on the tooltip from MMO-Champion:

The Spirit Beast heals the currently friendly target for {1237.75+((RAP*0.35)*0.5)} plus an additional {475.97+((RAP*0.35)*0.335)} over 10 sec

Now I used that equation with my own gear and saw around 3k in healing (in math). However, I will admit, my live toon is well, live. So she is still using BM AP gems, not AGI. And missing some other noticeable buffs. So I just did an insanely high number for the RAP to try and achieve the nearly 14k Healing mark.
Math: Using RAP of 14,000. A number that is almost impossible at this point in the beta.
{1237.75+((14,000*0.35)*0.5)} plus an additional {475.97+((14,000*0.35)*0.335)} gave the following numbers:

Intial: 3867
Overtime: 2117
Total: 5984
These numbers don't include Spirit Bond. Counting Spirit Bond: An extra 656.

I'm really not sure how you saw a 14k heal unless there's some other factors involved, because even when using really high RAP numbers, I'm not seeing a 14k heal.

I'm *not* saying you didn't do it. If you did, I would love to see how because I really am curious. My hunter is only seeing things int the 2-5k heal range roughly for one Spirit Mend. My computer cannot handle the beta well and since I can't copy my premade or character copy to try a better testing method, I'll admit this is all on paper. But if Spirit Mend really can achieve these numbers, then I'll admit, I'll be impressed.

[SpiritBinder]

I'm *not* saying you didn't do it. If you did, I would love to see how because I really am curious. My hunter is only seeing things int the 2-5k heal range roughly for one Spirit Mend. My computer cannot handle the beta well and since I can't copy my premade or character copy to try a better testing method, I'll admit this is all on paper.

Spirit Bond - Spell - While your pet is active, you and your pet will regenerate 2% of total health every 10 sec., and increases healing done to you and your pet by 10%.

There's another 10% ... but yeah, It's really hard to know unless you are in the beta and can acutally use it

But if Spirit Mend really can achieve these numbers, then I'll admit, I'll be impressed.

x2

[Rikaku]

I'm *not* saying you didn't do it. If you did, I would love to see how because I really am curious. My hunter is only seeing things int the 2-5k heal range roughly for one Spirit Mend. My computer cannot handle the beta well and since I can't copy my premade or character copy to try a better testing method, I'll admit this is all on paper.

Spirit Bond - Spell - While your pet is active, you and your pet will regenerate 2% of total health every 10 sec., and increases healing done to you and your pet by 10%.

There's another 10% ... but yeah, It's really hard to know unless you are in the beta and can acutally use it

I actually included Spirit Bond in an edit to the post since I left it out. Using my equation, it was only another 656 HP healed. Nothing that brought it near the numbers reported.

Basically, if you have 14,000 RAP, there's still more than 6,000 HP that was healed that I really can't account for in that time frame and I'm curious to if there's something I missed or what. XD

[Protego]

I'm glad you like Spirit Mend too Illahren. It's awesome and epic that Spirit Beast offer something different!

[Seolla]

.
Or maybe I'm missing something, or misunderstanding something...*PS havn't read through the entire thread, so please point out if theres anything wrong with this reasoning.

Ya... kinda <.<

Main arguments are:

How viable the healing ability is for a group. (yes we all know that it will get a second ability, even if is prowl atm, and that its a beta, things can change)

My point is, regardless of how good or bad the healing ability is, it is still the next best thing compared to nothing in a 25man raid environment, so even if Spirit Beasts isn't used anywhere else, at the very least, Spirit Beasts will be the best pet for 25man raids.

The strength of the ability, buffing/de-buffing/pvp/solo, considering we are talking about a spirit beast, not something you can just skip down to the local park and tame variety of pet.

Which is why you swap out one of your other 4 pets on the spot for different buffs/pvp/solo

The possible loss of the animation of SS, you gotta admit it is kind of cool.

Subjective here, personally I would never stare at my pet and awe at their cool animation abilities when I'm doing serious raiding/pvping.

Any high-end 25man raiding will most likely be 10 now as they will share the same loot table. Therefore you will most likely be asked to bring a pet that is adding to what your 10 man is missing. (less likely to be a spirit beast if it does not buff/debuff for group benefit)

That isn't true; sure enough there will be a lot more casual 10man guilds, but most top 25man guilds that I know are sticking as 25man guilds.

Personally, I feel this is actually really good; the heal isn't game-breaking enough to be a necessity in every 25man raid, but for those min-max high end BM hunters that managed to tame one, it definitely gives them a slight boost over having nothing else.

[SpiritBinder]

You did however, also forgot to quote ME

I actually said...

Actually worth the read if you have time, there are lots of good arguments for and against, leaving myself just waiting to see how it pans out.

You can disagree with people's arguments for and against in here, I was simply the messanger... who is now dead....

I'm out.

[minko]

Not to sound rude, but can I ask where you got those numbers from? I cannot fathom a 14k heal.

I'm really not sure how you saw a 14k heal unless there's some other factors involved, because even when using really high RAP numbers, I'm not seeing a 14k heal.

My 83 Spirit beast crit healed me for 9k and the hot ticked for 1700 with some 4k crits. I can only imagine the sort of healing power its going to giving once im raid buffed since it scales with AP.
Its also a smart heal so it will autocast on the nearest party member taking the most damage. It seems to heal once you drop below 60%.

So yeah its not a paltry pathetic heal in the least.
This is an amazing soloing/leveling ability! and I fully intend to level with a spirit beast once cata goes live.

Now we know from GC quotes that 5man/raid healing is going to be alot more about conserving mana and putting the burden back on the DPS to pot/bandage/stop taking avoidable damage.
So now consider in a 25 man scenario where all buffs are covered and your free too bring whatever pet you feel like. Dosnt a free automated AI healer sound amazingly beneficial.

[Palladiamorsdeus]

This is a SUPPLIMENTAL HEAL. 6 to 7000 non-critical over ten seconds IS piddly, and in the world of even five man Cataclysm, is a fairly low number. It's also once every 28 seconds taking into account longevity. I'm not saying it isn't useful, but it isn't as useful as some of you are making it out to be.

That being said, Seolla is dead on right. In a raid where every important buff is covered, the spirit beast will win hands down. Why? Because having a pet that can bring SOMETHING is better then having a pet that just brings damage.

[Rikaku]

Not to sound rude, but can I ask where you got those numbers from? I cannot fathom a 14k heal.

I'm really not sure how you saw a 14k heal unless there's some other factors involved, because even when using really high RAP numbers, I'm not seeing a 14k heal.

My 83 Spirit beast crit healed me for 9k and the hot ticked for 1700 with some 4k crits. I can only imagine the sort of healing power its going to giving once im raid buffed since it scales with AP.

If you looked at my math, you will see I gave more than enough RAP to cover the best Hunter in the best gear imaginable at lvl 85 right now. 14,000 RAP? I think that more than covers any average Hunter with Raid buffs to be honest. And it still only made about 6,000 HP healed.

However, this doesn't account for a critical. And, again, I admitted that this is on paper using the exact equation of the tooltip. However, your numbers of a 9k heal are feasible. Again, when using my own Hunter (live gear) I garnered about a 3-5k range of healing recovered. This doesn't include raid buffs (which your number doesn't have either) and doesn't cover a critical (which yours does). However, 9k is not the 13k+ number I was trying to reach.

Now if I did the math and the theoretical 14,000 RAP Hunter in my equation critical healed, then yes, we may see a 14k heal. However, my problem is I am not seeing how anyone achieved a 12k+ heal, let alone nearly 14k. And again, I stated I would absolutely love to see it if it was achieved. I'm not out here to say "no you're wrong", I'm genuinely asking "where is the unaccounted 6,000 HP healed coming from?", which is a completely seperate manner from the debate of "is Spirit Mend good or not".

Again, I'm not trying to say if Spirit Mend is good or not, I just want to know where some people are reporting these numbers. I'd love to see screenshots, combat logs or something. Because there is a huge chunk of HP recovery unaccounted for in testing even when I'm using ridiculous RAP numbers to close the gap between the average live Hunter's reports and beta players reports.

While I am not a fan of Spirit Mend, I will also agree that yes, it would be a better choice in raids, unless if you're missing a Shaman, just for the fact that just about every other pet buff/debuff is usually covered by another class thats often present in a raid.

[Protego]

That's cool that it'll auto-cast. Ah I was wondering about how much it got reduced with Longevity.

[Turgus]

To answer Protego.

Turgus wrote:
With a cooldown of 40 seconds before Longevity (with Longevity a cooldown of 28 seconds) it is far from worthless.

Yes, I just quoted myself

minko wrote:

Rikaku wrote:
Not to sound rude, but can I ask where you got those numbers from? I cannot fathom a 14k heal.

I'm really not sure how you saw a 14k heal unless there's some other factors involved, because even when using really high RAP numbers, I'm not seeing a 14k heal.

My 83 Spirit beast crit healed me for 9k and the hot ticked for 1700 with some 4k crits. I can only imagine the sort of healing power its going to giving once im raid buffed since it scales with AP.

I am just going to take Minko at their word (of course!)
Minko is the only one to report exactly how much this ability can heal for in the Beta. (I wish I had access to see for myself )

So, why are the numbers that were data-mined so different than what is on Beta?

Maybe the data mined ability was only rank 1 that becomes available at lvl 69 when you are first able to tame spirit beasts (aka exotic pets) and there are multiple ranks of the ability that are auto learned like pet abilities are like now on live.
Maybe Blizzard tweaked the values a bit in the Beta after these were data mined.
Maybe the data mined data has a bad or missing factor (multiplying by .335 instead of .75 for instance)

Regardless of how it is different, as any simple little bit of calculator work on anything (physics for example) does not tell you "exactly" how it really functions in the "real world." (some values are hard to quantify)
Sometimes the two values are really close, sometimes they aren't.

In this case, figuring out why the values are so different (the calculated vs. observed) is not as important (to me) as appreciating what the observed values are and understanding the impact that it (the ability Spirit Mend) would have if it were to go live "as is."

Since I do not have access to Beta, nor any data mining data aside from what Warcraft Hunter Union has (they get values a bit different from MMO from their data mining most of the time -what significance is this?-)
I will just trust that someone with access to better information will post it when they can.

And I will sit back and ponder what it would be like to have a pet that can (with a crit heal) heal me for close to 14k health.
(....ahh.....pet heals..... )

[Rikaku]

I am just going to take Minko at their word (of course!)
Minko is the only one to report exactly how much this ability can heal for in the Beta. (I wish I had access to see for myself )

Wasn't trying to say I wasn't taking their word.

And in fact, a friend's testing is showing around 9k heals as well. And they showed me what my calculations were off on. So I admit my math was wrong (like I said it could have been before XD) and that was all I wanted, some direction as to what was missing in the 'equation', so to speak.

I wasn't out to debunk anyone's report, I wanted to know what it was I was off on. And they answered that.


So I do admit, I am impressed by Spirit Mend, though I still don't really care for the ability of pets going healer (it still feels weird and 'too good to be true' moment by Blizzard). But it doesn't change anything since I use my SB as main pet in raids anyways lol

[minko]

Well thats frustrating.

I just completed a Halls of Origination run and was going too post the recount info on total healing done and so forth. Of course I DC'ed after the run finished and it reset my recount info.

But I do remember the breakdown on overall healing.

My spirit beast managed 11% overall healing.
9% of the MT healing overall.
10% overall on bosses exclusively.

Healing to the MT from spirit mend was 500k+

[Kalliope]

That's pretty amazing! O_o

[minko]

Yes its pretty much confirmed my theory that spirit beast might be the must have pet in a 25 man scenario when all buffs are covered.

Exact same DPS as every other pet but with amazing healing utility.

[Doth777]

This is a SUPPLIMENTAL HEAL. 6 to 7000 non-critical over ten seconds IS piddly, and in the world of even five man Cataclysm, is a fairly low number. It's also once every 28 seconds taking into account longevity. I'm not saying it isn't useful, but it isn't as useful as some of you are making it out to be.

Actually, my 85 Hunter's pet's Spirit Mend outheals my 84 Resto Druid's Rejuv right now, with no ticks from either heal critting. I was curious how strong Spirit Mend was in comparison to a normal class HoT, so I hopped on my Druid to test and was shocked to see Spirit Mend come out on top. That said, Druid heals are in a bad state right now as it is.

I just used mine and was healed for nealy 14k over it's short duration. For a pet heal with no cost and a 28second cooldown, I'd say that is damn good.

Not to sound rude, but can I ask where you got those numbers from? I cannot fathom a 14k heal.

I got it from live testing on the Beta server, I can take a screenshot of the combat log next time if you like. Here's the numbers I posted on Restokin comparing Rejuv and Spirit Mend.

Spirit Mend:initial heal of 3539, 5 ticks of ~1990= 13489 healing done
Rejuvenation: initial heal of 1473, 4 ticks of ~2600= 11873 healing done

Edit: I decided to hop on Beta and take a screen real quick just in case it was request:

WoWScrnShot_091610_090441.jpg (484.76 KiB) Viewed 1753 times

[Kalliope]

That's pretty hilarious. I assume that's not with equal gear.

[Doth777]

Update on Spirit Mend: It's MUCH stronger than before Check it out

WoWScrnShot_092010_172215.jpg (436.5 KiB) Viewed 1753 times

[The Insect Man]

I really, really hope that we get some new spirit beasts in Cat and that they represent a wide variety of pets - spirit birds, spirit raptors, spirit insects (naturally) -

It's a contentious suggestion, but also, maybe some that aren't as damn rare. If it's going to be a "must have", then for sure, have some skins/models as 2845-hour spawn silver dragon never-ever-see-ums, but at least have representatives of the family that are somewhat more accessible. And yes, I know that opinion on these boards is very split on this sort of issue, and the dedicated pet hunters will probably want the challenge to remain. It's a fair argument.

[Raydex-of-the-dawn]

As an owner of Arcturis (Arccy), I'm happy to see this. I'd be happy to have an "easy" SB too, for my alts (one camp was long enough. Seriously.)