NERF BAT INC!

[Saturo]

For the skeptics, SV currently has a max theoretical DPS about 0.6% higher than BM with BiS gear. Such a small difference will be absolutely swamped by gear and player ability differences. By contrast, the jump up to MM is more than 11% (Source: http://elitistjerks.com/f74/t42519-best ... readsheet/)

That depends on what you call BiS gear tough. MM and SV have vastly different priorities, so you would have to test them with the right gear, not BiS gear. BiS gear tends to favor MM, at least the way most calculate it. In actuality, the difference between a properly geared SV and a properly geared MM is about 9%. Not a big difference, but is shoves BM back behind again, since they gear the same as MM, with ArPen being the stat of stats.

[Lisaara]

lol how many games are/have been out were hunters/archers dont have pets? i get that its there game and there rules, but what about the customers? what about those who are not asking for the moon? my goverment tells me what i can and cannot do with my life/body, but doesnt mean that they are right or know whats best for me; same with blizz. more options are not a bad thing as we, the customers, have been telling them.

To paraphrase GC, Blizz see asking to play a hunter without a pet as similar to going into a hamburger joint and asking for a kebab. You're free to ask, but don't be surprised if the staff look at you funny and then say no.

Blizz have made the decision not to offer an archer class. They have stated several times that they have no intention of allowing the hunter class to be played as anything other than a pet class. While BM emphasises the pet, it is still a core part of the MM/SV gameplay and becoming moreso in Cataclysm (through the raid buffs and the revamped Kill Command).

Players can certainly continue to ask for an archer class, but really, how would the gameplay of such a class be sufficiently distinguished from that of rogues, mages *and* hunters?

This ^

We kinda already got the archer class split into three different ones. But yes, Blizzard does see your request but like Nimi said, it's like walking into a steakhouse and asking for authentic sushi.

[Anyia]

it's like walking into a steakhouse

Mmmmmmm, steak! Nom nom nom!

[Lisaara]

it's like walking into a steakhouse

Mmmmmmm, steak! Nom nom nom!

*watches all the tauren stampede* >.>;

[Kalliope]

it's like walking into a steakhouse

Mmmmmmm, steak! Nom nom nom!

*watches all the tauren stampede* >.>;

*watches the tauren hunters feign death*

*watches the thread go far, far off the tracks*

[Tulune]

Even if we are a little (or a lot) messed up on release, they won't leave it at that. We will be tweaked and worked on.

I am a little nervous about all the changes, but I have faith that it will work out.

And while I do not oppose a choice to have a pet or not, Blizzard's stance on this is pretty clear (because of the added utility that pets are getting AND the further removal of melee abilities for the hunter), we are a pet class. PVP can be annoying at times to manage a pet and keep it alive, but since they have buffed (greatly, I might add) the survivability of pets in PVE situations, I don't see why having a pet would be an annoyance at all.

I agree with this whole heartedly. Blizzard made this quite clear. If we were meant to not have pets, we wouldn't be hunters.

lol how many games are/have been out were hunters/archers dont have pets? i get that its there game and there rules, but what about the customers? what about those who are not asking for the moon? my goverment tells me what i can and cannot do with my life/body, but doesnt mean that they are right or know whats best for me; same with blizz. more options are not a bad thing as we, the customers, have been telling them.

Bad comparison. Blizzard is a private company that (within legal boundries of course) can do what it wants. if you don't like it, you have the option to not play anymore.

[Bellatryx]

So is wow going up to lv 100? maybe the next expansion will bring the dark ranger hero class?

[Epicfail]

I'm with the "live and let live" crowd. The problem is that some people want to live and let live, but they are very annoying and bother everyone else. If it gets bad enough, we'll form a petition. If they still won't stop, we'll just... not be their friends... If they continue unabated and it just annoys us to death, we may have to raise up arms and kill them. I'm sure there's a clause somewhere in the live and let live creedo about annoying people and how they all deserve to die.

I'm also a card carrying member of the Teabag party. Like the Tea Party, we're also very dilligent in expressing our dissatisfaction with the government and misc gaming companies, we just go about our victory dance... and little differently...

Seriously, lets worry about the "nerfage" after we're all rolling through release. All I care about is being able to provide enough support and/or dps to progress my character through the content and raid with my guild. My needs are simple. I must be able to pwn with the best of them. If I am pwning more than I am pwnt, I have a character with good gear standing and I'm a player of sufficient skill, then I call it a win. Everything else is gravy.

[Alkaholic]

PTR (PvP perspective):

Some insane geared tauren BM hunter w/ Loque was dueling folks out in Duel'otar. As the duel timer ticked, he would hit intimidate. Once it started he'd send Loque. The cat hit for 18K claws/bites. As a fellow hunter, I was flabbergasted and deeply amused. Two shot by his pet, no kill command involved. To his credit, he was in best of ICC 25 gear. I'm happy we now have Scattershot AND Silence shot @ our disposal as BM now.

[Kalliope]

PTR (PvP perspective):

Some insane geared tauren BM hunter w/ Loque was dueling folks out in Duel'otar. As the duel timer ticked, he would hit intimidate. Once it started he'd send Loque. The cat hit for 18K claws/bites. As a fellow hunter, I was flabbergasted and deeply amused. Two shot by his pet, no kill command involved. To his credit, he was in best of ICC 25 gear. I'm happy we now have Scattershot AND Silence shot @ our disposal as BM now.

Ha, that's cause resilience doesn't do much anymore! AND THIS IS WHY OTHER CLASSES BITCH ABOUT HUNTERS, LOL!

But yeah, one little correction: BM hunters don't get silencing shot - it's still VERY deep in the marks tree. Scatter, however, is baseline, and I'm thrilled having it.

[Anyia]

Scatter, however, is baseline, and I'm thrilled having it.

OMG I'd missed that bit of info! That's great! I have so missed Scatter shot! Once I learned how to use it (a long way into 60 *cough*) I quickly fell in love with it's ability to keep me alive long enough to get the next freezing trap down!

[Gimlion]

I always thought it'd be neat to have a purely ranger, (like a Dunedain) class. A class that could either be a marksman, a rogue-esque person (duel wielded with poisons/venoms), or a swordsman/spearman/horseback fighter of some sort. I think that'd be a fun class, but should be limited to leather. Mail at the most. and not really able to tank? That would be a class I'd play.

Plus, if you wanted to primarily range, but didn't want a pet, you could play this class.

[Silvarain]

ok sorry for sounding butthurt with this last post ill make in this thread, but all i was trying to do was come to the defence of another hunter w/o sounding mean or upsetting anyone. ill back out now. again, sry, its been a bad week w/lil sleep. remove this post if needed but please remove my last one and any that have quoted it if done, thx.

[Slickrock]

Digging back a bit to make a few points...

It's perfectly acceptable for someone to ditch a class they no longer find fun. I'm ditching my pally to make him a JC slave since Blizz insisted on making pally tanking more complicated just for the sake of making more complicated. Holy Combo points ftl.

I still like the option of a talent in MM that allows you a crit, haste, or burst damage boost when you don't have a pet out. Ultimate glass cannon spec.

We need all three specs viable, and we need them DIFFERENT.

[Curumor]

ok sorry for sounding butthurt with this last post ill make in this thread, but all i was trying to do was come to the defence of another hunter w/o sounding mean or upsetting anyone. ill back out now. again, sry, its been a bad week w/lil sleep. remove this post if needed but please remove my last one and any that have quoted it if done, thx.

Don't think anyone got upset or thought you were being mean. But they do have a very good point when they say that the class is question is hunters, not archers or rangers. I do understand the appeal of having a ranged physical damage class that can be just as powerful without having to manage a pet, but that would go against the very nature of the class.

Digging back a bit to make a few points...

It's perfectly acceptable for someone to ditch a class they no longer find fun. I'm ditching my pally to make him a JC slave since Blizz insisted on making pally tanking more complicated just for the sake of making more complicated. Holy Combo points ftl.

I still like the option of a talent in MM that allows you a crit, haste, or burst damage boost when you don't have a pet out. Ultimate glass cannon spec.

We need all three specs viable, and we need them DIFFERENT.

That glass cannon already exists (mage), so I very much doubt that option is likely to come. It goes back to the whole ranger/archer thing.
And at the risk of sounding bitchy, there's always games like DDO (which is quite decent actually) if you want to play a class like that (I have one myself).

All 3 speccs are different. BM focuses on pets, MM on powerful shots, and SV on DoT's, debuffs and so on. The differences may not be huge when it comes to PvE, but they are quite noticable in PvP.

On a sidenote, I like the change to pallies. I ditched my old one because it was too boring to play, with just 2-3 buttons to mash and no build up. This makes it more interesting and challenging, imo. But that's a matter of taste really...

[Gimlion]

I heard Dungeons and dragons Online wasn't that great, at least compared to other top MMO's like WoW and LotR. but I haven't actually played it.

[Curumor]

I heard Dungeons and dragons Online wasn't that great, at least compared to other top MMO's like WoW and LotR. but I haven't actually played it.

It's a matter of taste, really... On the one hand it lacks a lot of the fine tuning WoW has in certain areas.
But if you enjoy the DnD games like Neverwinter Nights, it's very nice. The Dungeon Masters voiceover is a very nice touch, NPC seem to have more complete animations (for example, if there's a group of them praying or performing some ritual, it's quite obvious what they're doing, with folded hands, the "we're not worthy" moves and so on), and you can tune your caharcters a lot more. Plus dungeons include things like traps and hidden objects, etc.. Making them more interesting.
But personally, I've never gotten past the first area, so can't really comment too much beyond that. Not that I don't enjoy it, I just cba to start all over again when I have 4 lvl 80s on WoW

[The Insect Man]

Played a hunter in LOTRO - now they have no pets and, by hell, you miss'em when you ain't got'em.

[Palladiamorsdeus]

I suggest a captain in LotRO! The squire doesn't really tank for you, but it's fun to have around. I think the Loremasters bear counts as a tank, tho'. It has been many moons. Maybe I will play some more now that it is free....

[Adam-Savage]

Palla, the patch 4.0 isnt Cata. It's pre-cata. Far as I'm aware, nothing for directly Cata is on PTR.

There is alot more from beta on the PTR right now then some think. Mana is gone , no ammo, new talents, New abilities, BM pets are hitting like a steamroller. I'm sure there is more to add to this list.