The Beast Check-In! [UPDATE: No longer ?? Boss :( - Page 3]

[Kalliope]

Yup. I'd rather see them normalized than have a few select people with Boss pets that can no longer be obtained.

Yep, all things considered, this is the ideal.

Still, it doesn't hurt to ask. Mostly just to know, but also for the sake of the scarlet hounds, etc.

[Worba]

The only issue I have with Blizzard giving him a new NPC id in Cata is that it will make him a grandfathered pet. I'd rather they just leave it on him completely so that others can still get him in the future. I hate the idea of retired pets.

Giving him a new NPC ID wouldn't prevent others from getting him in the future - after all, they will still know he's The Beast right? Same creature in same spot, only difference would be that when you tame him on cata EZ mode, he has normal tag, whereas people who suffered through the 20 second cast time have something to show for it.

[Worba]

Yes, it's not nearly to the same level as those sort of pets, but a Boss tag is nonetheless a very unique and fun thing to have, and I'm sure there would be plenty of hunters who would be sad to miss out.

Yes, it'd be cool, but he won't actually be a raid boss anymore, so it doesn't make sense, not really. :/

^ This

He's not a raid boss anymore so theres no point in being called a boss if you aren't one.

He's called a boss because he is a boss; the skull tag is not just for looks, it means he fights at your level + 2 (that's why they don't recommend you try solo taming him till 80 and even then it's very hard)...

[Kalliope]

He's called a boss because he is a boss; the skull tag is not just for looks, it means he fights at your level + 2 (that's why they don't recommend you try solo taming him till 80 and even then it's very hard)...

But he is easily solo-tameable on the PTR - and I was only level 72!

Still, Worba's right that he's still a boss - he just won't be a RAID boss anymore.

[Worba]

Yup. I'd rather see them normalized than have a few select people with Boss pets that can no longer be obtained.

And what is wrong with having an untamable pet?

Every hunter is drawn to the idea of having something exclusive - tons and tons of people were all excited about the idea of not just being able to tame Soriid / Haarka but also (though I doubt many will openly admit it) about the prospect of them subsequently becoming untamable a la crocoslimes, ghost hydras and spirit wolves, e.g. of being one of the select few to have such pets.

And the more we *shouldn't* tame it, the more we *want* to tame it... e.g. the whole Garwal uproar.

What if Blizzard had decided to normalize Gezzie into a standard white warp stalker, since after all she was a boss pet that could no longer be obtained?

Unless it bugs you that people were allowed to keep their crocoslimes, ghost hydras and ghost wolves, I don't see why you'd take issue with the idea of a subset of the red corehound being allowed to keep a special tag; after all people who really want it can still go get him between now and cata...

[Worba]

He's called a boss because he is a boss; the skull tag is not just for looks, it means he fights at your level + 2 (that's why they don't recommend you try solo taming him till 80 and even then it's very hard)...

But he is easily solo-tameable on the PTR - and I was only level 72!

Still, Worba's right that he's still a boss - he just won't be a RAID boss anymore.

The fact that you solo tamed him easily doesn't mean he is an easy tame, by any stretch - it means you are very good (and/or very well geared). Congrats!

[Worba]

But seriously though, Blizzard seems to be trying to ... keep people from crying "NO FAIR! THEY HAVE A BOSS MOB AND I CANT HAVE ONE!".

^ This I'll agree with.

[Kalliope]

He's called a boss because he is a boss; the skull tag is not just for looks, it means he fights at your level + 2 (that's why they don't recommend you try solo taming him till 80 and even then it's very hard)...

But he is easily solo-tameable on the PTR - and I was only level 72!

Still, Worba's right that he's still a boss - he just won't be a RAID boss anymore.

The fact that you solo tamed him easily doesn't mean he is an easy tame, by any stretch - it means you are very good (and/or very well geared). Congrats!

On the PTR, anyone can tame him. I was in greens! And not even my haste set greens. With the stat changes, pretty much all hunter gear will have haste and more stamina, so the 10s cast time will drop slightly, and that's all the edge that's needed. Trust me, it's easier than on live. Every bit of planning I did to make the live tame happen at 70 was unnecessary because it was all passive after the changes. And I didn't even use a corehound for bloodlust.

It's not that I'm very good or anything, it's the system.

[Vephriel]

Yup. I'd rather see them normalized than have a few select people with Boss pets that can no longer be obtained.

And what is wrong with having an untamable pet?

Every hunter is drawn to the idea of having something exclusive - tons and tons of people were all excited about the idea of not just being able to tame Soriid / Haarka but also (though I doubt many will openly admit it) about the prospect of them subsequently becoming untamable a la crocoslimes, ghost hydras and spirit wolves, e.g. of being one of the select few to have such pets.

And the more we *shouldn't* tame it, the more we *want* to tame it... e.g. the whole Garwal uproar.

What if Blizzard had decided to normalize Gezzie into a standard white warp stalker, since after all she was a boss pet that could no longer be obtained?

Unless it bugs you that people were allowed to keep their crocoslimes, ghost hydras and ghost wolves, I don't see why you'd take issue with the idea of a subset of the red corehound being allowed to keep a special tag; after all people who really want it can still go get him between now and cata...

The only reason I have that opinion is that I know the kind of heartbreak it is to miss out on a dream pet that is retired before you are able to get it. ^^ If people come to the game late, or miss out, then they're out of luck, and I would never wish anyone to go through that kind of regret. That's all. Of course it doesn't bother me that people have retired pets right now. They're very lucky and I have only admiration for those unique pets. If it comes down to things now though I think it would be better to leave The Beast with his boss tags for everyone rather than make it so that only people who tamed him before Cataclysm kept it. I have The Beast myself and I love his boss tags, and I would hate thinking of hunters that come later who weren't able to get it....hmm, not sure if any of that makes sense, but it's just my overly sentimental feelings on the whole matter. x)

[SgtMakkie]

Kinda agree with ya Veph. I missed out on the ghost wolf and would love to be able to get him, sigh. However one might say with the changes to tame beast that it's no longer an epic tame.

[Worba]

On the PTR, anyone can tame him. I was in greens! And not even my haste set greens. With the stat changes, pretty much all hunter gear will have haste and more stamina, so the 10s cast time will drop slightly, and that's all the edge that's needed. Trust me, it's easier than on live. Every bit of planning I did to make the live tame happen at 70 was unnecessary because it was all passive after the changes. And I didn't even use a corehound for bloodlust.

It's not that I'm very good or anything, it's the system.

Ahh, that makes more sense - we're talking about 2 different things... yes, of course doing it on the 10 second cast is easy; I never said otherwise; that's why it's such an achievement to do it on the 20 second cast, and why people who tame him pre-cata deserve to keep the boss tag.

Doing it on 20 second cast = HARD = achievement = deserves to retain boss tag

Doing it on 10 second cast = EASY = no special achievement = no special recognition

Also, just to be 100% clear I'm not talking about overhauling the system here, just something simple Blizz could (and might) do to allow hunters to keep existing boss tags.

[Worba]

Yup. I'd rather see them normalized than have a few select people with Boss pets that can no longer be obtained.

And what is wrong with having an untamable pet?

Every hunter is drawn to the idea of having something exclusive - tons and tons of people were all excited about the idea of not just being able to tame Soriid / Haarka but also (though I doubt many will openly admit it) about the prospect of them subsequently becoming untamable a la crocoslimes, ghost hydras and spirit wolves, e.g. of being one of the select few to have such pets.

And the more we *shouldn't* tame it, the more we *want* to tame it... e.g. the whole Garwal uproar.

What if Blizzard had decided to normalize Gezzie into a standard white warp stalker, since after all she was a boss pet that could no longer be obtained?

Unless it bugs you that people were allowed to keep their crocoslimes, ghost hydras and ghost wolves, I don't see why you'd take issue with the idea of a subset of the red corehound being allowed to keep a special tag; after all people who really want it can still go get him between now and cata...

The only reason I have that opinion is that I know the kind of heartbreak it is to miss out on a dream pet that is retired before you are able to get it. ^^ If people come to the game late, or miss out, then they're out of luck, and I would never wish anyone to go through that kind of regret. That's all. Of course it doesn't bother me that people have retired pets right now. They're very lucky and I have only admiration for those unique pets. If it comes down to things now though I think it would be better to leave The Beast with his boss tags for everyone rather than make it so that only people who tamed him before Cataclysm kept it. I have The Beast myself and I love his boss tags, and I would hate thinking of hunters that come later who weren't able to get it....hmm, not sure if any of that makes sense, but it's just my overly sentimental feelings on the whole matter. x)

Something doesn't add up here; you say you don't want people to "come later and [be unable] to get" a limited time tame (e.g. corehound w/ boss tag), yet plenty of people have come later and were unable to get the spirit wolf, crocoslime or ghost hydra... yet you also say that "Of course it doesn't bother me that people have retired pets right now"... wut?

I would have no problem with him keeping the boss tag post cata, but for the fact that people taming him post cata will be able to do so with the 10 second cast time, e.g. they will not have to overcome any major difficulty, e.g. it will cease to be a major achievement, e.g. if there is no major achievement then no special recognition is merited - they still get a nice big Demon-Clifford of their very own, just no boss tag, which all makes sense.

And by the same token it equally makes sense that players who did contend with the 20 second cast time would retain their boss tag.

I'm not proposing any major change to the system, just that hunters be able to keep something they worked hard for.

[Worba]

Kinda agree with ya Veph. I missed out on the ghost wolf and would love to be able to get him, sigh. However one might say with the changes to tame beast that it's no longer an epic tame.

... Except that he remains untamable, meaning he still is/will remain an epic tame by virtue of being a collector's item.

[Vephriel]

Something doesn't add up here; you say you don't want people to "come later and [be unable] to get" a limited time tame (e.g. corehound w/ boss tag), yet plenty of people have come later and were unable to get the spirit wolf, crocoslime or ghost hydra... yet you also say that "Of course it doesn't bother me that people have retired pets right now"... wut?

I would have no problem with him keeping the boss tag post cata, but for the fact that people taming him post cata will be able to do so with the 10 second cast time, e.g. they will not have to overcome any major difficulty, e.g. it will cease to be a major achievement, e.g. if there is no major achievement then no special recognition is merited - they still get a nice big Demon-Clifford of their very own, just no boss tag, which all makes sense.

And by the same token it equally makes sense that players who did contend with the 20 second cast time would retain their boss tag.

I'm not proposing any major change to the system, just that hunters be able to keep something they worked hard for.

Hehe, I think we're misunderstanding each other. ^^; It's no one's fault that they have a retired pet currently, no one could have really been sure they would have been retired. I'm basically saying I'm not mad or resentful of people that have retired pets now. As a future outlook I think it would be better if Blizzard didn't continue to create these retired pets, that's all. I didn't mean for my thoughts to become a big topic or anything, I was just musing on how it would be nice if no one had to worry about grandfathered pets in the future. I'm not trying to imply that everyone should agree with me, and this is all theorizing anyways since we know The Beast is being normalized without retaining his boss tag in Cataclysm.

[bluddy]

hmmm i love his boss tag....blizz please listen i ask you politely. it's an epic achievement to tame him. they hunter's who got him should be rewarded with something uniquelly. and c'mon it's like removing the ghost wolves, crocoslimes etc. they were small mistakes but you still let them be there. the beast is i guess a mistake yet he is to be removed i call it no fair deal.

[Worba]

Something doesn't add up here; you say you don't want people to "come later and [be unable] to get" a limited time tame (e.g. corehound w/ boss tag), yet plenty of people have come later and were unable to get the spirit wolf, crocoslime or ghost hydra... yet you also say that "Of course it doesn't bother me that people have retired pets right now"... wut?

I would have no problem with him keeping the boss tag post cata, but for the fact that people taming him post cata will be able to do so with the 10 second cast time, e.g. they will not have to overcome any major difficulty, e.g. it will cease to be a major achievement, e.g. if there is no major achievement then no special recognition is merited - they still get a nice big Demon-Clifford of their very own, just no boss tag, which all makes sense.

And by the same token it equally makes sense that players who did contend with the 20 second cast time would retain their boss tag.

I'm not proposing any major change to the system, just that hunters be able to keep something they worked hard for.

Hehe, I think we're misunderstanding each other. ^^; It's no one's fault that they have a retired pet currently, no one could have really been sure they would have been retired. I'm basically saying I'm not mad or resentful of people that have retired pets now. As a future outlook I think it would be better if Blizzard didn't continue to create these retired pets, that's all. I didn't mean for my thoughts to become a big topic or anything, I was just musing on how it would be nice if no one had to worry about grandfathered pets in the future. I'm not trying to imply that everyone should agree with me, and this is all theorizing anyways since we know The Beast is being normalized without retaining his boss tag in Cataclysm.

Okay, thanks for clearing that up. But see the problem here is that players with boss tag TB's do currently have them and have had them for a long time - it's not like Garwal where they recognized the problem and normalized it pretty quickly (at least by comparison), and normalizing away those boss tags would be just the same as if they normalized crocoslimes and ghost hydras into normal crocolisks, spirit wolves into regular coyotes, etc.

They didn't do that because it would have been unnecessarily harsh (especially to hunters with spirit wolves!), and by the same token I don't think they should do it to boss tags for TB's who were tamed pre-cata... why does one group get the golden glove whilst the other gets whacked upside the head?

If you don't like the "limited time tames" precedent then I think it makes more sense to support the idea of retaining the tag for existing tames (who worked hard for it and have had the tags for a long time), dropping it for post-cata tames (who won't have to work hard for it), and then pull the plug on "limited time tames" going forward (which really is what they started doing with Garwal, if you think about it).

As they say, it ain't over till it's over, and if enough TB owners cared enough to make themselves heard on the wow forums I'm pretty sure Blizzard would accommodate this wish. Sadly though, not everyone seems to care as much about their TB's or spiny raptors as they do about taming Gezzarak...

[Royi]

Ok here it goes the master solution to this problem.

Give Beast racing stripes on his skin. If you tame him before Cata you get 4 racing stripes on each side, if you tame him after cata you only get 2 racing stripes on each side.

There, problem fixed.

[Worba]

Ok here it goes the master solution to this problem.

Give Beast racing stripes on his skin. If you tame him before Cata you get 4 racing stripes on each side, if you tame him after cata you only get 2 racing stripes on each side.

There, problem fixed.

Doesn't make sense, but that does have the advantage of being nice n' random!!

Now if only they could go ahead and change all PCs to giant devilsaurs who have RAWR randomly inserted in their chat messages like how drunken characters insert random "hic!"s and change "s" to "sh", we might be getting somewhere.

I think you may be onto something there - why not head on over to the wow forums and get the word out??

[Kalliope]

On the PTR, anyone can tame him. I was in greens! And not even my haste set greens. With the stat changes, pretty much all hunter gear will have haste and more stamina, so the 10s cast time will drop slightly, and that's all the edge that's needed. Trust me, it's easier than on live. Every bit of planning I did to make the live tame happen at 70 was unnecessary because it was all passive after the changes. And I didn't even use a corehound for bloodlust.

It's not that I'm very good or anything, it's the system.

Ahh, that makes more sense - we're talking about 2 different things... yes, of course doing it on the 10 second cast is easy; I never said otherwise; that's why it's such an achievement to do it on the 20 second cast, and why people who tame him pre-cata deserve to keep the boss tag.

Doing it on 20 second cast = HARD = achievement = deserves to retain boss tag

Doing it on 10 second cast = EASY = no special achievement = no special recognition

Also, just to be 100% clear I'm not talking about overhauling the system here, just something simple Blizz could (and might) do to allow hunters to keep existing boss tags.

There's only one problem with this idea, Worb: he's still a ?? raid boss on the PTR. So there will be an overlap period with the ?? boss tag and the 10s tame beast cast.

I don't think Blizzard is removing the boss tag to spite hunters; they're just changing BRS to no longer be a raid. I just don't think they realized (or necessarily cared) that a lot of hunters who put forth the effort to tame this guy like the ?? boss level.

[Worba]

There's only one problem with this idea, Worb: he's still a ?? raid boss on the PTR. So there will be an overlap period with the ?? boss tag and the 10s tame beast cast.

I don't think Blizzard is removing the boss tag to spite hunters; they're just changing BRS to no longer be a raid. I just don't think they realized (or necessarily cared) that a lot of hunters who put forth the effort to tame this guy like the ?? boss level.

I'm sure you are right about Blizzard just focusing on the macro and missing the micro, so to speak... which is why I want to let them know some of us do care about the tag, so that they will reconsider what happens to existing pre-cata tames... because if they do decide to address this, it won't matter what is/isn't on the PTR.