Cataclysm Release Date + Beta - Build 13117

[Protego]

Geez. Blizzard. Typical. They over-decreased. I could've/would've said a couple of things, from looking at the 1st 2 pages of this topic. But everything's calmed down here. So never mind. And I agree with Pally. The re-buffing up, for Beast Masters, isn't gonna happen before 4.0 comes out.

[Eldanalune]

I just don't know anymore. I'm tired. I'm tired of fighting like a tiger for the spec I love, for the pets I love, and being derided, mocked, and literally afraid to post to forums because of the spec I play. Do you realize that when my raid finally downed Arthas, this is the only place I said anything about it? Because this is the only place where someone wouldn't pop up saying "24 good people and a 30% buff can carry one idiot beast master who likes gimping his raid." The only way that treatment of a certain section of the hunter class is going to stop is if Blizzard does what they said they would. We were told they knew there was a problem and that Cataclysm would fix it. Yeah...fixed it real damn good, didn't they? I'm tired of Clayburn being a mark of shame instead of a badge of honor among my fellow hunters. I'm just...tired of it.


I'm trying to have faith that Blizzard will carry through so that all three specs will be equal enough that it doesn't matter which one you bring...but my faith is about drained on that front. I just don't know.

Hey Tahlian. Let me tell you a little story. And this was from a little over five years ago. I was..and still am...a Beast Mastery specced hunter. Sure, I have Marksman as a secondary spec now. But I knew what my class could do as BM. I was a damn good protector of healers with my "4 way combo". Distracting Shot, Intimindation, Bestial Wrath, and Devilsaur Tooth. And I was known for that and my ability to pull on the Silver Hand Server.

I was asked to join Death Dealers. A very hardcore raiding guild. But some people SEEMED decent. We were in Molten Core. The little elitist raiders were all asking "What is everyone's spec?" They got to me and I proudly said: Beast Mastery.

And I quote per verbatim: "OMFG!!!!! FUKIN' BM HUNTARD! U SUXXORZ! Change spec or never raid again!"

*shivers* I think my IQ just dropped 30 points typing that. Anyways.

The entire guild found out my spec and even the guild leader stated...no...not stated. Ordered. Ordered me to change my spec. I told him no. I was not changing the spec I knew the most about and was proud to be. He gave me one warning to change my spec. I had enough. And being I'm Irish, I turned around and told him: "Know what. You elitist pricks can piss off. I'm not changing my spec. And if this is how you treat your members. Fuck you." -Eldanalune leaves the guild-.

Morale of the story,Tahlian: If you feel that you can't be proud to announce you're Beast Master for fear of persecution, then that guild is not for you. Regardless of the "l33t phat lewt". There's another guild out there for you. A good guild won't make you feel ashamed or afraid to post about your spec and how proud you are of it.

And in the words of the immortal barred:

AND THAT'S THE BOTTOM LINE WHY?! CAUSE STONE COLD SAID SO!

[Rhyela]

Thinking back to Acherontia's post about BM being a huge bursty spec at that point in time, perhaps these seemingly huge nerfs could lead to something better? I'll be honest, I didn't want BM to be this humongous burst spec, either. If they get rid of these redonkulous numbers and instead give us other things to make us better, I'll be happy.

I agree that it seems that they aren't quite sure how they want to fix BM, but I have faith that someday, whether it be now or a year from now, things will get better. So it may bottom out before it goes back up. It's hard to say at this point. I take comfort in the fact that I know I'm not going to grind to 85 and start doing raids immediately. This expansion is tailored to the 1-60 experience. We have SIXTY levels of new shinies! I'm going to spend a great deal of my time leveling an alt, so maybe between then and the time I'm finally wanting to raid again, things will have improved? We just never know!

I know Cata is close, and The Big Patch even closer, but let's try not to get ourselves worked up over what could actually lead to a good thing in the end. Can't have a big shiny rainbow without clouds and storms before! (Okay, that was a terrible analogy that I just made up..../facepalm)

Rhyela, proud BM, out.

[Tahlian]

To be absolutely clear...the problem is not my guild. My guild is one of the most loving and supportive environments I have ever had the privilege of being in. The problem is not my raid. They are glad to have me along, and the feral druids and rogues are big fans of Clayburn separate from anything else I might do. I'm happy to be raiding with them.


The problem is the hunter community in general.

I, too, have played a hunter since vanilla - this hunter, in point of fact. And I have been a beast master the entire time. Back then, BM hunters were derided as you mentioned. In BC, BM hunters were bemoaned for the fact it was a "one-button macro spec" that anyone with a "drinky bird" could play, go AFK, and top the meters. Yes, we could put out damage - but we still weren't given the same footing as the marks and survival hunters. Then Wrath hit, Blizzard over-nerfed...and has yet to fix it. And BM hunters went back to being derided as "noobs," "scrubs," "bads." There was even one post over on the cesspool that is the official forums that sagely compared all beast masters to excrement. And that post was recent...say in the last 30 days.

If the only thing that will satisfy the larger community of hunters is numbers to show that BM is equal in damage and utility to the other two specs...then I'd really like Blizzard to keep their word and make sure we produce those numbers. But given the way things have gone in recent history, my faith in their doing so is fading fast.

And I shouldn't have to put up with being treated in such a manner - by anyone - simply because of the spec I play. I enjoy helping people. It makes me feel good when my guildmates ask me about speccing and gearing their hunters. If I know, I'll tell them. If I don't, I'll tell them I don't know, and will try and find them someone they can ask or a website they can consult. I like seeing skilled hunters doing what we do best. But I remain silent on the official forums because of the sheer amount of abuse a BM hunter posting there will inevitably attract.

That's the problem.

[Protego]

Ew no, it better not take a "year" to fix Beast Mastery. I do not agree....

[Lisaara]

To be absolutely clear...the problem is not my guild. My guild is one of the most loving and supportive environments I have ever had the privilege of being in. The problem is not my raid. They are glad to have me along, and the feral druids and rogues are big fans of Clayburn separate from anything else I might do. I'm happy to be raiding with them.


The problem is the hunter community in general.

I, too, have played a hunter since vanilla - this hunter, in point of fact. And I have been a beast master the entire time. Back then, BM hunters were derided as you mentioned. In BC, BM hunters were bemoaned for the fact it was a "one-button macro spec" that anyone with a "drinky bird" could play, go AFK, and top the meters. Yes, we could put out damage - but we still weren't given the same footing as the marks and survival hunters. Then Wrath hit, Blizzard over-nerfed...and has yet to fix it. And BM hunters went back to being derided as "noobs," "scrubs," "bads." There was even one post over on the cesspool that is the official forums that sagely compared all beast masters to excrement. And that post was recent...say in the last 30 days.

If the only thing that will satisfy the larger community of hunters is numbers to show that BM is equal in damage and utility to the other two specs...then I'd really like Blizzard to keep their word and make sure we produce those numbers. But given the way things have gone in recent history, my faith in their doing so is fading fast.

And I shouldn't have to put up with being treated in such a manner - by anyone - simply because of the spec I play. I enjoy helping people. It makes me feel good when my guildmates ask me about speccing and gearing their hunters. If I know, I'll tell them. If I don't, I'll tell them I don't know, and will try and find them someone they can ask or a website they can consult. I like seeing skilled hunters doing what we do best. But I remain silent on the official forums because of the sheer amount of abuse a BM hunter posting there will inevitably attract.

That's the problem.

Actually, it's been proven that macros are terrible compared to doing the rotation manually so no, they wouldn't be able to top the charts with a macro, no matter how leet they are.

Hun, you will get treated like that because people are pricks in general. It doesn't matter if you're a hunter or a druid or even a paladin. People will find something to bitch about. You really gotta learn to tell them to screw off. My druid plays a feral cat and she gets nailed all the time for not being a tree or boomkin. That doesn't stop me. Boomkin is my offspec. My FERAL KITTY gear is now green to ICC25 and I'm usually in the top 10. Basically, a feral kitty is the BM of the Druid tree.

play what you love. love what you play.

[Eldanalune]

Well, from what I've seen, Taluwen, You guys of the petopia world are the most caring and passionate people in the world. So...not everyone are pricks.

Three cheers to the Petopia community!

Hip hip hooray!
Hip hip Hooray!
HIP HIP HOORAY!

[Palladiamorsdeus]

We are? I thought we were all insane.

Played around with it a bit. Mend pet is healing for more overall now. The nerf is fairly substantial, and it does lower BM into last place among the specs. BUT it won't be hard to fix. They just need to tweak the numbers upwards a bit, 10% here, 10% there, it won't take a ton to fix.

[Rhyela]

To be absolutely clear...the problem is not my guild. My guild is one of the most loving and supportive environments I have ever had the privilege of being in. The problem is not my raid. They are glad to have me along, and the feral druids and rogues are big fans of Clayburn separate from anything else I might do. I'm happy to be raiding with them.


The problem is the hunter community in general.

I, too, have played a hunter since vanilla - this hunter, in point of fact. And I have been a beast master the entire time. Back then, BM hunters were derided as you mentioned. In BC, BM hunters were bemoaned for the fact it was a "one-button macro spec" that anyone with a "drinky bird" could play, go AFK, and top the meters. Yes, we could put out damage - but we still weren't given the same footing as the marks and survival hunters. Then Wrath hit, Blizzard over-nerfed...and has yet to fix it. And BM hunters went back to being derided as "noobs," "scrubs," "bads." There was even one post over on the cesspool that is the official forums that sagely compared all beast masters to excrement. And that post was recent...say in the last 30 days.

If the only thing that will satisfy the larger community of hunters is numbers to show that BM is equal in damage and utility to the other two specs...then I'd really like Blizzard to keep their word and make sure we produce those numbers. But given the way things have gone in recent history, my faith in their doing so is fading fast.

And I shouldn't have to put up with being treated in such a manner - by anyone - simply because of the spec I play. I enjoy helping people. It makes me feel good when my guildmates ask me about speccing and gearing their hunters. If I know, I'll tell them. If I don't, I'll tell them I don't know, and will try and find them someone they can ask or a website they can consult. I like seeing skilled hunters doing what we do best. But I remain silent on the official forums because of the sheer amount of abuse a BM hunter posting there will inevitably attract.

That's the problem.

You're right, BM hunters do have this dirty aura about them to others in the WoW community.....But, so do ret paladins (one-button spec LAWL!), DK's (unfortunately, many of them prove their stereotype to be true), evidently feral kitties (I haven't heard that one as much personally, but I believe it), etc. It's more than just BM hunters that get griped at. It is unfortunate, I agree, but I take pride in the fact that I can shut them up with my performance. I've had one hunter tell me, "Well at least now no one can complain about your DPS" after I rocked both his and another SV hunter's DPS in a 25 man with suckier gear. It does suck that they see our devilsaur in a raid and immediately make some snide comment about it because they assume it's a trash spec. I'm willing to bet they've never even tried it. I PvP with a BM friend on my priest, and it's hilarious to see these level 70 twinks with super gear think they can take them on, and then he and his devilsaur chew them a new one. You know that's gotta hurt, being beaten by a LOLBMNOOB! Granted, BM isn't too shabby for PvP to begin with, but it's like people look him up and typically end up paying for it.

Anyhow, it's unfortunate but a lot of classes and specs have a stigma about them for being the "noob", "lol", what-have-you spec. I wish things were different, but at this point I think it's so ingrained into peoples' brains that BM is a joke that it's going to take a LOT to change that.

And honestly, I think nerfing those huge numbers will help in that regard. Then we can't be blamed for doing high damage because of our whacked KC or BW. Let Blizzard give us something else that we have to use some more strategy or skill with.

This may end up better in the end. All we can do is wait and see.

[Vephriel]

The impression of BM by the general community is truly sad, but as others have said I know there's a lot of classes that receive the same sort of hatred for their specs as well.

I guess I count myself lucky that I haven't really been on the receiving end of a lot of BM hate. Sure I've had the occasional snide remark over the years, but never anything big.

I haven't been into raiding much at all this expansion, though I did have some interest in seeing ICC. I found out there was a guild on Nesingwary that tends to do PUG runs every Sunday, so one weekend I inquired, admitting that I'd never been there and might need some guidance aside from the information I had read and watched. To my shock I was accepted without question and found myself entering Icecrown for the first time. Skorn was by my side, and nothing anyone said was going to make me change my pet. I did go in there buffering myself for potential backlash, but....I didn't hear a single word. This was a PUG with various people from the server, and not once did anyone make a comment about my all-too-obvious Devilsaur.

I continued to join these Sunday PUG runs and each week there were some different people. Once again, never had any comment about my spec. I was even more proud of the fact that I was keeping up and pulling my weight just perfectly, on a couple of the runs topping DPS. Skorn became a bit of an iconic member in these runs and was recognized and hugged by many. xD I was praised a few times for quick thinking on various fights and performing things like kiting blood beasts with no issues (apparently there was a tendency for PUGs to fail miserably on some of those tasks). All in all it was a wonderful experience for me, someone who rarely raids, and at the end I just felt more confident about sticking with the spec I enjoy for my entire duration of playing.

I suppose I'm just not the type to get overly concerned over potential buffs/nerfs since it won't affect my playstyle at all. I figure if I made it through the Wrath-era of nerfage and still do just fine I can handle anything.

[Adam-Savage]

I find people don't care what your spec is these days. If you can crank out a descent amount of dps and you know what your doing then that's all that matters really.

[Slickrock]

I find people don't care what your spec is these days. If you can crank out a descent amount of dps and you know what your doing then that's all that matters really.

Well, it helped that BM with a Trex scaled well with ARP late in the expansion.

But I really want to see what those internal builds look like...

Interestingly enough, the consensus on EJ is that BM was overnerfed with this, and the uber-nerf to BW went way to far, one quote in particular I think sums it up...

The BW nerf however I feel is a low blow. 20% pet damage every 2 minutes. It used to be a great cooldown, but then duration got nerfed almost 50% and now the power has been nerfed by 60%. I don't know, but BW actually seems fairly weak now. If we assume the 30% damage, then BW adds 6% damage while active and overall 0.5% damage. Now that doesnt' include TBW and KC usage. KC alone should up the value by a fair bit, but I doubt it will break the 1% mark (by KC being another 30% of the total damage, which would be 42ish% of the personal damage). That is weak for such a talent, perhaps the weakest of all talented DPS cooldowns? I can only hope they will continue to retune it, which I think is fairly likely. After all they have hamfistedly nerfed and buffed abilities for Hunters several times, KC in particular, so why shouldn't BW be part of that cycle?

[Adam-Savage]

I never had a problem sense I've played my toon. Even when Lich King Came out Nobody said said I had to have another spec. Maybe it's just luck I dunno.

[Slickrock]

I never had a problem sense I've played my toon. Even when Lich King Came out Nobody said said I had to have another spec. Maybe it's just luck I dunno.

Likely depends on the server as well. Early in Wrath I got kicked from quite a few pugs because I was BM, or didn't run with a wolf, or was at least railed upon by some cookie-cutter MM.

What made matters worse was that I was using, and still do use at times, Rowan's Rifle, which was often far better than the weapons that the other hunters were using (232 heroic drops). That rifle is still great for BM, and I got mocked for it incessantly. (I only got something comparable when I got the 264 bow from ICC 25).

[Saturo]

What made matters worse was that I was using, and still do use at times, Rowan's Rifle, which was often far better than the weapons that the other hunters were using (232 heroic drops). That rifle is still great for BM, and I got mocked for it incessantly. (I only got something comparable when I got the 264 bow from ICC 25).

Of course people will ridicule you for that. It's a tanking gun, a hunter running around with it will look like a fool, regardless of whether it's an improvement or not.

[Tahlian]

It's a BoE epic. The speed and damage more than compensate for any stat bonuses you aren't getting because the ones on Rowan's happen to be designed for warriors. Rowan's Rifle of Silver Bullets is the best weapon, bar none, that a hunter can get prior to ICC 25 weapons, at least for beast mastery. It's relatively easily acquired off the AH as well, given that there's really only one spec of one class that would be given first dibs on that weapon in a raid.


I'm far more likely to mock a hunter for other things than for using a Rowan's.

[Sinnu]

How big of an impact does the focus discount aspect of BW have? I see people referring to that as such a huge benefit that the loss of damage is barely worth talking about... but I don't see it. All we can do with that extra focus is spam arcane shot, right? Is arcane spam with a +20% bonus really that frightening? I have to think something else will happen to BW. Today it just doesn't seem to be all that compelling a talent.

[Deathadder]

According to the spreadsheet, Rowans is actually better that 264 Zod’s for a BM hunter with 2pc T10.
For the other specs, it’s a good pick-up until you can get something from ICC 10.

Yes, it is a tank gun. And yes, people will give you crap for using it. But most people are ignorant as to how hunter damage is calculated. Most of our abilities rely on weapon damage. It’s not our fault Blizz was stupid and gave a tank gun insane damage compared to actual DPS weapons.

[Noba]

My opinion on the bm spec changes, mocking or not, nerf remaining or not, is play it if you love it. I have always loved BM, because I love pets. I played it from the start up until the mega nerfs in wotlk. At that point I needed to raid is MM with my guild, so I created and leveled a second hunter for the sole purpose of playing bm and did not respec my first hunter until my second was ready to go. Listening to people yell at you is always frustrating, but if they can not answer 'yes' to the following question, they have no right to judge your spec: "Do you pay for my monthly wow bill?". No.

Lately I've had fun with my 'alt' bm hunter putting out more dps than some "better specs" presumably because I know the spec well and am comfortable with it (proving others wrong while defending something you love is fun!). I tend to ignore any early comments and let the dps in heroics speak for itself. My hunter Kyriss is staying BM in the expansion, no matter what nerfs it gets. That said, I do HOPE they balance it out in cataclysm because it would be more fun and come with less stresses from poorly behaved players. Moving to the petopians guild server is always a possibility too, as I imagine its a great community and any jerks would surely would become a chewtoy/target dummy quickly.

[Slickrock]

It's a BoE epic. The speed and damage more than compensate for any stat bonuses you aren't getting because the ones on Rowan's happen to be designed for warriors. Rowan's Rifle of Silver Bullets is the best weapon, bar none, that a hunter can get prior to ICC 25 weapons, at least for beast mastery. It's relatively easily acquired off the AH as well, given that there's really only one spec of one class that would be given first dibs on that weapon in a raid.

And considering my 2nd hunter had it the day she hit 80..

Here's hoping that there are viable weapons early and often in Cata. ICC didn't give us much.