Repost from me from the official forums

[Loffter]

What do you guys think of this? The wording is wierd, but I am lazy and don't feel like wording it as if it's not a response.

You know... THAT is actually a good idea. They want Beast mastery to be about the pet, then make the damn pets a reward for going beast mastery. Rework it so you can only get a pet if you put points in the BM talent tree. Make it an 11 pt talent. The hunter masters nature, allowing him to keep his pet summoned perminantly or something, hell make pets like ghouls. Ah... yes.... insperation

change pet happyness! You can't feed pets in combat right? Well, make pet happyness tick down as a timer. once it's happyness hits a certain point, it escapes the battle. You can't feed it to keep it's happyness up if you are in combat, so survival and marks hunters arent forced to care. Then us BM hunters can have pet buffs in the pet tree, and a talent that makes it so pets stay happy indefinatly, and don't leave in combat. The ability to call pet would have a cooldown, and thus they could improve pet abilities. THEN they could make exotic pets super awesome, implament more of them, and make them worth the talent points.

In short-

Pets get pissed during combat and leave
if you are BM, this is no longer true (with talent)
Deeper BM makes pets even better
The talent to keep pets summoned would give players a reason to hybrid marks and survival with BM, while still giveing them the option
people who dont enjoy pet management and just want to be ranged rogues get their wish. I may make a whole new post for this...

[Karathyriel]

That would be like taking pets away from MM or SV hunters.
This will create an uproar of frustration within the hunter players.

I don't think Blizz would dare to even think about that for one second!

[Loffter]

That would be like taking pets away from MM or SV hunters.
This will create an uproar of frustration within the hunter players.

I don't think Blizz would dare to even think about that for one second!

Not really, because they would have to option to hybrid into beast mastery for permapet. It's not like its BM or gtfo, they could simply opt to spent 11 or 20 or whatever in BM to have access to their pet all the time. Otherwise, It's a quick summon that is out for a while and then goes away for a while.

Then you would have the min/maxers who dont give a damn about pets could go MM and survival, the people who want to DPS but love their pet could go MM or Survival and sub BM, and then BM hunters could obviously choose to sub survival or MM. Then balance the DPS out so they all do similar with utilities, and you have 3 diverse trees with total freedom.

Something else cool about this is with the cunning pets. A non- permapet hunter might opt for one of these, and save it till the end of the fight so it gets its damage boost from talents (Assuming this still applies), or they could summon it in for mana regen.. or energy regen, whatever. They could use it as a tool.

[Jakkra]

Marksman and Survival hunters care about their pets, too. Just because they aren't the main focus of the build, they still contribute and define them as hunters.

Also, exotic pets, as I see it, are just to add more variety, and to kind of "upgrade" pet families that already exist. Compare spiders to silithids, or sporebats to worms. And I think they are worth the talent points- we get a unique pet that not all hunters can own. Plus, Devilsaurs are said to be the best dps option out there for BM hunters in many instances.

I don't think it would be a good idea to have your pet up and leave battle for any build. All hunters keep their pets 'happy' because it boosts their dps. Pets aren't exclusive to BM only.

For people who don't care about pets and want to be ranged.. they roll mage or something. I think it's a bad idea to make pets not permanent for all specs.

[Loffter]

Marksman and Survival hunters care about their pets, too. Just because they aren't the main focus of the build, they still contribute and define them as hunters.

Also, exotic pets, as I see it, are just to add more variety, and to kind of "upgrade" pet families that already exist. Compare spiders to silithids, or sporebats to worms. And I think they are worth the talent points- we get a unique pet that not all hunters can own. Plus, Devilsaurs are said to be the best dps option out there for BM hunters in many instances.

I don't think it would be a good idea to have your pet up and leave battle for any build. All hunters keep their pets 'happy' because it boosts their dps. Pets aren't exclusive to BM only.

For people who don't care about pets and want to be ranged.. they roll mage or something. I think it's a bad idea to make pets not permanent for all specs.

That is true to a point, but there are also lots of players who would give their pet up if it ment a dps increase. Changeing the happiness system would remove the damage part, and give pets flat damage reguardless of Happyness level. If you balance the trees and make it so a hunter that does NOT have the talent can do equal to or slightly greater than a hunter with a pet, then it doesnt hurt them. It gives people a choice. Think of it this way.

Marksman/Survival- Full on ranged ability, pet on cooldown for utility purposes, high burst.
Marksman/Beast Mastery- Still lots of damage, but losses some of it's utility and possibly a little burst for the pet.
Survival/MM steady mid ranged dps, trap dancing and melee attacks if needed/when able, etc. Change the 51 pt to something to benifit this new state.
Survival/BM- Pet and hunter fight side by side, giveing aspect of the Beast a very strong use. Good steady DPS.
BM/Survival- Hunter sits at mid range, fireing his bow and keeping an eye on his pet's health and making sure all is well. Solid steady ranged dps. Most likely not the build of choice.
BM/Marks- Pet tears threw enemies while hunter stands at max range Fireing with steady DPS with reasonable burst.

It evens out, and gives people a choice of how they want to play. Continue to discuss! Tell me why I am wrong, there has to be some way to make hunters diverse and not the same thing packaged 3 times..

[Jakkra]

It's an interesting idea, but I think it kind of destroys what makes you a hunter- having a constant companion that you have tamed and named yourself. And yeah, I do know people who would rather be more of a "ranger", using your bow/gun at ranged with no pet. I just don't agree with it, is all. IMO- roll another ranged class if you don't care to use a pet.

[Mania]

I think it would be interesting to see Blizzard add a pet-less ranger class. Then again, I'd also like a demon hunter, insect hunter, elemental hunter ...

[Kayb]

maybe this is a shock to some people, but not every hunter uses teh BM spec. i'm a marksmen, and if they take my pet away and force me to have to spec a talent tree to be able to have a pet at all, on top of only being ble to you use them off of a cooldown, then i'll quit playing a hunter.

This is a bad, bad idea. You would see a hell of a lot of hunters disappear from the game, 100% undeniable

sorry this would just completely and utterly suck

[Loffter]

I honestly can't see how. Hunter's arent ment to be the end all beat all pet class, they are ranged physical dps. It's not like its taking away from the game, its just allowing hunters to choose what they want. Even if you arent BM, you still have a pet, it just isnt out all the time in combat. If you want your pet perminant, you spec into it just like a DK or mage or shaman would. Its the same concept, and those classes have definitive trees. We do not.

And I know all hunters arent BM

NO hunters are BM. At least no hunters who are serious and allowed to be in endgame raids that are anything less than farm status.

And in the next patch, ALL hunters will be BM

then NONE again.

Because there is no way to balance a classes which pretty much has 3 identical trees.

[Sonata]

But this concerns me to the playstyle, I mean don't MM and Survival also use pets outside of raids and dungeons as a mini tank to keep aggro away from them.
Wouldn't this mean the MM/Survival hunters would have to kite their enemies around if they didn't have a pet to take the incoming damage?
Yes we have traps they would have to reduce the cooldown and that would make other classes doing complaints about hunters being overpowered in PVP.

Also that would make pets having their own trees an useless idea.

But the idea is not bad, I mean we all were kinda in that situation when we started and didn't have a pet.

[Kayb]

why on earth, after five years, should we give up a companion for the sake of making BM the in thing again? you are wrong to think everyone will go BM after the next patch etc, i've been MM since launch, i don't even use dual spec. i'm not changing, and don't think i should have a pet on cooldown, let alone one that can't last long enough for a battle.

i guarentee you that if something like this was introduced, hunters would be a rare rare sight. i know i wouldn't play one. if i want a pet on cooldown, i'll play my mage instead.

[Kastarakovski]

NO hunters are BM. At least no hunters who are serious and allowed to be in endgame raids that are anything less than farm status.

Wow. No, really. Wow. I'm at a complete loss to describe the tunnel vision of that one statement of yours.

I'm a BM Hunter, a serious BM hunter who's been raiding as BM since Vanilla WoW 40-mans. In a top end raiding guild on Saurfang (US). And ICC25 is NOT on farm status. It doesn't have to be on farm status for anyone to be BM-specced or not.

I'm allowed to raid as BM spec. Because my guild likes variety in their hunters. No one in my guild has had any issue with me being a BM-specced hunter. I churn out as much dps as I can and contribute to the raid's overall dps. I have yet to have ONE complaint about Ferocious Inspiration being brought to the raid along with Trueshot Aura and Explosive/Black Arrow. I have yet to hear one complaint over a spirit beast being brought to ICC25.

I figure it's play whatever spec you want to play. Because I sure as hell am not proving to some epicdps-hinged dumbass that I'll sacrifice my pet just to stroke my ego ingame. If you're top of the meter, good for you, it's like taking the pudding cup away from a paraplegic kid. I refuse to play this game like that, thanks.

[Saturo]

Aye, I'm opposed to this idea too. The pet is a main part of Hunter RP, and wasting a "utility spell", just to roleplay with my pet for a while, would destroy the class for me. The hunters pet is supposed to be his permanent companion.

[Tahlian]

Hi. Re your statement about no serious raiders being beast masters. Clayburn and I would like to have a word with you about that. Yes, we raid Icecrown. Together. My raid may not be a server-first progression-type raid, but we are an Icecrown raid where we are expected to do well within our spec. And Clayburn and I do. 'Nuff said.

As to your proposal...*sigh.* This, simply put, will never happen. Ever. Blizzard has balanced the hunter class - the class, not just one tree - around the pet contributing to the hunter's damage. It would be all but impossible to properly balance the class if only one tree had that contribution. And they've had enough problems balancing hunters within the class in the past as it is.

[Dulanie]

What you have suggested has potential, but first and formost hunters like Warlocks are a "true" pet class. This means that no matter what spec our pet is integral to the class. If it were changed to how you suggest hunters would be no different then frost mages, and DKs. It would alter the playstyle in an unfavorable way, and make hunters something they are not.

[Anansi]

Terrible idea.
All Hunters, regardless of spec, use a pet as a fundamental part of their DPS. The only difference between the specs is in the percentage of DPS the pet makes up of the overall, so BM sees more DPS from pets and less from themselves, while MM and SV see more personal DPS. But in all three cases, the pet is an invaluable portion of the Hunter ability set not to mention an iconic and intrinsic element to the class identity.

It is not only BM Hunters who are attached to their pets if you're looking at this from an RP perspective (and RP perspectives should never, ever inform class balance). This proposal seems a poorly thought-out method to try and validate BM as *the* Hunter spec out of personal vested interest. Essentially, a selfish argument.

Pets play a vital role in any Hunter raid strategy, from keeping adds busy to interfering with raid-punishing mechanics or simply maintaining DPS on the boss while the Hunter tends to other targets. And many Hunters, of all specs, are very proud of their pets and the pet's abilities to fulfill a raid role. Implying that MM and SV Hunters should not have that same attachment, pride and investment in their pets because of their spec is silly.

The entire use of the Hunter class is balanced around having a pet and raids are structured with the assumption that there will be a couple of Hunters, so there are specific mechanics where pets come in to play. Suggesting that pets run away after awhile if the Hunter is not BM is beyond daft and again, smacks of a selfish desire to see BM be the spec "real" Hunters should use while MM and SV are punished.

Essentially, the OP argument is self-centred and poorly thought out and could never, ever work.

[Loffter]

You can raid as BM all you want, and your guild can allow you to, but the fact is you bring nothing to the raid except less DPS than it could be. FI doesnt stack with arcane mage or pali buffs of the same time, so its useless too unless you have neither of those in your raid. You basicly wont see any BM hunters in a raid to down arthas for a while, because they will be lacking 1-2, maybe even 3k dps that they could otherwise have had while being marks

I also suggested a major overhaul to the survival class. I actually made another nice post on the official forums, so ill make it here. Please ignore the "Waaah change! scary!" statement, It was not aimed at you guys, it was aimed at a couple of guys who were saying hunters were PERFECT now.

And keep in mind, they would just have to rebalance the dps to keep the specs similar. Its not like BM would be overpowered. They would simply play differently than the other trees. I dont want BM to be overpowered. as much as I do love BM, I would actually rather be survival, if it was how it USED to be and not just..well, just read the post..

I still disagree it is retarded, but then again, it is my idea. They need to heavily diversify the trees however. Survival and marksman play exactly the same, and BM goes between being crazy good to being unplayable constantly, and even then it STILL plays exactly the same as the other two specs. The only difference is shots you have access to. The game would be more interesting if we had a choice to make, but we dont. I think rogues have the same problem but well, thats not my problem, im not a rogue.

Mages get Arcane, fire, and frost. Each of those trees are dependent of eachother. They use totally different spells and rotations.
Same with warlocks. One tree emphisises their demons, and each other their pets serve a purpose, one is for direct damage and one tree gives them various dots to deal damage. Each tree, while useing simlar spells, plays differently.
DKs have 3 trees, and each of them are unique and serve a purpose.

Then you have hunters, where the only difference between our trees is whether we use arcane shot, explosive shot, or chimera shot. Oh, and we have to use explosive shot or chimera shot, or we wont stand up in DPs. Oh, and once we get enough armor pen we have to use Chimera shot, or we wont stand up in DPS.

We are PIGEON HOLED. The only way to fix this glaring, obvious problem, is to take away something we have and rework it. If pets had originally been a talent, you wouldnt have complained about not having a pet if you went marksman. Or you know what? You would have leveled BM, like most people do anyways! Aion rangers dont have pets, and they are just, well, petless hunters. You learn to kite! As marksman your burst would be high enough to kill things before they got to you if you knew how to kite, and as survival you would just melee. There is NOTHING wrong with this idea except "Waaaah change! Scary!"

The fact is, as much as I love my hunter and more so my pet (I even post regularly on petopia), this is the best way to diversify the class in one clean sweep. It doesnt force you to spec anything, gives you total free will in how you play, and still keeps the hunter as a physical dps class at its core.

[Azzrazzah]

I enjoy playing both SV and BM. I have pets for each.. The problem with the game is the un-needed tree links to get certian shots..They need to combine the trees into what a Hunter should be; good with pets/dps/traps.. I would love to be able to do dps with both my pet and myself; not one or the other.. I'm a Hunter, that means pets and person doing the best dps you can TOGETHER and keeping mobs/adds busy so the Tank can hammer away at the bosses

[Rethei]

The only reason i even enjoy the hunter class is because of the pets we tame and use as companions and the main driving force i had to getting my hunter past the lower levels. Sure the traps and shots are interesting but take the pet out and i'd pretty much never switch outta Bm ( i always swap between my Bm and Sv specc for fun).

Having a pet it core to all of the Hunter speccs, yes more so for BM then mm/Sv but a good junk of our dps comes from our pet(mm and Sv both have talents that are aimed towards improving our pet)

I agree with Anansi that just because someone isn't specced BM ( most hunter Dual specc to Bm anyway) doesn't mean that hold their pets special in their heart. Sure there are those that only care about dps numbers and don't care how we attain them aka hunters without pet names.

[Vephriel]

Sorry, I just can't see the reasoning behind your arguments. I don't think this would work at all, nor do I think it's a smart idea.