Tenacity Pet Abilities

[Stridah]

Hi, first post on Petopia forums! (could no longer resist the awesome)
So i made a post over on the suggestion forums not long ago and I thought I'd post it put it on the table and see what you guys thought on my ideas

Tenacity Pet Debuffs (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 6374&sid=1)
The basic gist of this one is that some of the abilities are really lacking for tenacity pets. Boar and Rhino are only help MM when soloing making the rhino pretty much useless, only one tenacity pet has the demoralizing shout debuff, and no tenacity pets bring the sunder armor or the tanking mainstay thunderclap debuff which are brought by families in the cunning and ferocity trees. I suggestion changing Time Warp to a thunderclap as my primary example, I wonder what you guys think.

Spirit Strike (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 5592&sid=1)
This post was about making spirit strike the spirit beast basic attack. It would only be a glorified claw but it would retain the awesome moonfire animation, using the same logic as the warrior shockwave. It as the benefit of not restriction spirit beasts to creatures with claws as well. though i'm sure blizzard could change the basic attack for any pet within a family my logic is the less extra coding the better.
Sorry if its a bit wordy but what are your thoughts?

[Lisaara]

Hi, first post on Petopia forums! (could no longer resist the awesome)
So i made a post over on the suggestion forums not long ago and I thought I'd post it put it on the table and see what you guys thought on my ideas

Tenacity Pet Debuffs (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 6374&sid=1)
The basic gist of this one is that some of the abilities are really lacking for tenacity pets. Boar and Rhino are only help MM when soloing making the rhino pretty much useless, only one tenacity pet has the demoralizing shout debuff, and no tenacity pets bring the sunder armor or the tanking mainstay thunderclap debuff which are brought by families in the cunning and ferocity trees. I suggestion changing Time Warp to a thunderclap as my primary example, I wonder what you guys think.

Spirit Strike (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 5592&sid=1)
This post was about making spirit strike the spirit beast basic attack. It would only be a glorified claw but it would retain the awesome moonfire animation, using the same logic as the warrior shockwave. It as the benefit of not restriction spirit beasts to creatures with claws as well. though i'm sure blizzard could change the basic attack for any pet within a family my logic is the less extra coding the better.
Sorry if its a bit wordy but what are your thoughts?

I like the debuffs and other hunters on my server are loving the Rhinos and they are BMs and such. I dont think any of them need to be changed.

Spirit Strike, as awesome as it would be, it'd never happen. It'd be a dps thing. They made it clear they dont want special dps attacks. Adding the claw thing would make it a special attack.

[Mockingbird]

I think the OP's intention was to use the Spirit Strike animation for the basic "Claw" attack - no DPS difference to normal pets, just a visual one.

[Sarayana]

Yeah I think so, Mockingbird. I don't know though... Spirit strike was cast what, every 40 seconds? How often does a beast claw/bite/smack? Every 5 seconds? That'll be moonfire spam and the tank will hate your guts.

[Ryai]

Yeah I think so, Mockingbird. I don't know though... Spirit strike was cast what, every 40 seconds? How often does a beast claw/bite/smack? Every 5 seconds? That'll be moonfire spam and the tank will hate your guts.

Spirit Strike was cast every 10 seconds, not 40.

With longevity it was every 7 due to the tick being 6 sec long.

If they remove the tick and make it a normal melee swing, then it'd be fine. And honestly if the tank hates your guts over an animation from a single beast, they'd hate you for a corehound, wasp or devilsaur and they're petty.

[Kalliope]

I agree on the rhinos. They really need some love. That debuff IS useless to a BM hunter, so it makes NO SENSE on a BM only pet. Plus Horn Toss takes up quite a bit of focus, so unless I'm opening with the knockback, my rhinos generally don't have enough focus to be able to cast it at will mid-fight.

[Silvarain]

Taluwen, u seem to shoot down a lot of ideas awfully quickly without any real reasons as to why you think/feel as such.

I agree on the rhinos. They really need some love. That debuff IS useless to a BM hunter, so it makes NO SENSE on a BM only pet. Plus Horn Toss takes up quite a bit of focus, so unless I'm opening with the knockback, my rhinos generally don't have enough focus to be able to cast it at will mid-fight.

the lovely Kalliope is right, the rhinos mechcanics for a BMer are awful. i tamed one and i liked him but he cant offer more to the fight so hes on the bench until the blizz gods give him a hand up. i can kinda understand why his knockback isnt on auto-cast but still the whole bleed thing is just... confusing for a BMer.

oh, and SS as the attack animation would be nice to see and it would add a little something to the game imo

[Antares]

[Time Warp]

I still miss Warp but TW is pretty awesome. If you spec your Warp Stalker for DPS then they freakin' rock.

[Lisaara]

Taluwen, u seem to shoot down a lot of ideas awfully quickly without any real reasons as to why you think/feel as such.

I agree on the rhinos. They really need some love. That debuff IS useless to a BM hunter, so it makes NO SENSE on a BM only pet. Plus Horn Toss takes up quite a bit of focus, so unless I'm opening with the knockback, my rhinos generally don't have enough focus to be able to cast it at will mid-fight.

the lovely Kalliope is right, the rhinos mechcanics for a BMer are awful. i tamed one and i liked him but he cant offer more to the fight so hes on the bench until the blizz gods give him a hand up. i can kinda understand why his knockback isnt on auto-cast but still the whole bleed thing is just... confusing for a BMer.

I was pretty clear on why I didnt think the spirit strike thing would go through, and I was pretty clear that I didn't see anything wrong with the Rhino's ability cause a lot of my fellow hunter friends on Moon Guard who are BM love it and wouldn't want it changed.

I didn't think I needed to elaborate on it since I felt I was crystal clear on my opinion.

Either way, an ability shouldn't matter that much. Personally, if you love the pet enough, even if its ability isnt that glamorous, you'll keep it anyway. I love all my pets and I wouldn't change them for anything(unless Blizzard does but I'll still love them).

Antares: i miss Warp too but TW has grown on me.

EDIT: To add on about spirit strike....if it was animated on the claws, some peoples computers wouldnt be able to handle it going off every 5 seconds on every single boss or mob. my computer lags a ton in ICC. If someone or two people had spirit beasts spirit strikes going off, they may as well consider me dead cause it was too much to the already laggy and buggy ICC.

[Kalliope]

the lovely Kalliope is right, the rhinos mechcanics for a BMer are awful. i tamed one and i liked him but he cant offer more to the fight so hes on the bench until the blizz gods give him a hand up. i can kinda understand why his knockback isnt on auto-cast but still the whole bleed thing is just... confusing for a BMer.

I was pretty clear on why I didnt think the spirit strike thing would go through, and I was pretty clear that I didn't see anything wrong with the Rhino's ability cause a lot of my fellow hunter friends on Moon Guard who are BM love it and wouldn't want it changed.

I'm with Sila on this. It's not clear WHY your hunter friends love a debuff that they can't personally benefit from. Do they love their rhinos despite the useless (to them) debuff? Do they like the CONCEPT of a rhino increasing bleed damage? That part is not very clear at all.

Either way, an ability shouldn't matter that much. Personally, if you love the pet enough, even if its ability isnt that glamorous, you'll keep it anyway. I love all my pets and I wouldn't change them for anything(unless Blizzard does but I'll still love them).

I have rhinos on both hunters. I'm very attached to the little guys. I'm not parting with either of them. But I still think the bleed debuff from stampede could be changed to something more useful for a BM hunter since rhinos are tenacity pets. Having issues with a pet ability doesn't take away from love of the pet, but it DOES cut down on the pet's usefulness from a detached, neutral perspective.

[Lisaara]

the lovely Kalliope is right, the rhinos mechcanics for a BMer are awful. i tamed one and i liked him but he cant offer more to the fight so hes on the bench until the blizz gods give him a hand up. i can kinda understand why his knockback isnt on auto-cast but still the whole bleed thing is just... confusing for a BMer.

I was pretty clear on why I didnt think the spirit strike thing would go through, and I was pretty clear that I didn't see anything wrong with the Rhino's ability cause a lot of my fellow hunter friends on Moon Guard who are BM love it and wouldn't want it changed.

I'm with Sili on this. It's not clear WHY your hunter friends love a debuff that they can't personally benefit from. Do they love their rhinos despite the useless (to them) debuff? Do they like the CONCEPT of a rhino increasing bleed damage? That part is not very clear at all.

Either way, an ability shouldn't matter that much. Personally, if you love the pet enough, even if its ability isnt that glamorous, you'll keep it anyway. I love all my pets and I wouldn't change them for anything(unless Blizzard does but I'll still love them).

I have rhinos on both hunters. I'm very attached to the little guys. I'm not parting with either of them. But I still think the bleed debuff from stampede could be changed to something more useful for a BM hunter since rhinos are tenacity pets. Having issues with a pet ability doesn't take away from love of the pet, but it DOES cut down on the pet's usefulness from a detached, neutral perspective.

I'd elaborate more on why she likes them but she never went into detail on why. She just said the ability was really fitting for them. I think the bleed debuff is awesome with raids or have a druid in your group. Druids make bleeds. I think Rogues do too.

[Sarayana]

I think the bleed debuff is awesome with raids or have a druid in your group. Druids make bleeds. I think Rogues do too.

It's true, the debuff is great if someone in your group does bleed damage (I believe one of the warrior dps specs does too? Anyway, rogues and kitties do, yes.) but... how often does that happen? I mean, how often do you bring a tenacity pet to a raid? The only time I use a tenacity pet while I'm grouped is when I do dailies or farm TBC or Vanilla mounts. Either way, I'm with my husband, who's a boomkin. +Bleed damage is useless to us.

I agree with what you and Kalli said, it doesn't change how you *feel* about the pet when you tame it, name it, and look at it. But if I have two tank pets and one does the job better, then that's the one I use. Not only that, but by using it I become more attached to it than I do to the one that's permanently stabled.

[Lisaara]

I think the bleed debuff is awesome with raids or have a druid in your group. Druids make bleeds. I think Rogues do too.

It's true, the debuff is great if someone in your group does bleed damage (I believe one of the warrior dps specs does too? Anyway, rogues and kitties do, yes.) but... how often does that happen? I mean, how often do you bring a tenacity pet to a raid? The only time I use a tenacity pet while I'm grouped is when I do dailies or farm TBC or Vanilla mounts. Either way, I'm with my husband, who's a boomkin. +Bleed damage is useless to us.

I agree with what you and Kalli said, it doesn't change how you *feel* about the pet when you tame it, name it, and look at it. But if I have two tank pets and one does the job better, then that's the one I use. Not only that, but by using it I become more attached to it than I do to the one that's permanently stabled.

With how the hunters have changed in 4.0.1, I've seen quite a few warp stalkers and bears being brought in. But it varies from server to server.

I see what you mean. I guess it could be tweaked a little, maybe does a bit more than the bleed thing but still keeps the bleed thing.

[Kalliope]

I'd elaborate more on why she likes them but she never went into detail on why. She just said the ability was really fitting for them. I think the bleed debuff is awesome with raids or have a druid in your group. Druids make bleeds. I think Rogues do too.

From an RP sense, perhaps, it makes sense. It still irks me that this is the only completely mismatched buff/debuff and spec.

Feral druids, rogues, warriors, and marks hunters all benefit from a bleed increase, yes. But what you're not considering is that these classes generally bring their own bleed increases too.

Feral druids have mangle.
Arms warriors have blood frenzy.
Subtlety rogues have hemorrhage.
Marks hunters can bring hyenas (or boars, though min-maxers won't).

This is my issue with rhinos and BM hunters.

[Stridah]

First I'm really glad I posted this here. The discussion is exactly what i was hoping for. To clarify a bit on the spirit strike thing my idea was to replace claw/bite/smack with a spirit strike something like this.

Spirit Strike Level 85
25 Focus Melee Range
Instant 3 sec cooldown
Blast the enemy with a wave of force, causing (186 + ((RAP * 0.40) * 0.20)) physical damage.

Its claw copied from wowhead with the name and flavor text changed. I can see how it could be murder on the PC, i doubt mine could handle a raid with more than two spirit beasts but for me it was awesome seeing that moonfire go off and know that was from a spirit beast. It just feel epic, and makes the hours of camping more justified. For me they just lost some of the epic feel with the changes.

[Kalliope]

I'm afraid that Blizzard isn't likely to put spirit strike in in this capacity, since claw/bite/smack was made the main damage ability for every pet family and class. I miss the moonfire ability too, and the old warp, but I don't think that this is the sort of implementation that Blizzard is going to be receptive to.

There's got to be something that would work, but I don't think we've hit on it yet.

[Lisaara]

I'm afraid that Blizzard isn't likely to put spirit strike in in this capacity, since claw/bite/smack was made the main damage ability for every pet family and class. I miss the moonfire ability too, and the old warp, but I don't think that this is the sort of implementation that Blizzard is going to be receptive to.

There's got to be something that would work, but I don't think we've hit on it yet.

I'm gonna have to agree with her. They've made it clear they don't want pets to have special dps abilities.

[Silvarain]

I'm afraid that Blizzard isn't likely to put spirit strike in in this capacity, since claw/bite/smack was made the main damage ability for every pet family and class. I miss the moonfire ability too, and the old warp, but I don't think that this is the sort of implementation that Blizzard is going to be receptive to.

There's got to be something that would work, but I don't think we've hit on it yet.

I'm gonna have to agree with her. They've made it clear they don't want pets to have special dps abilities.

what do you classify as a "special dps ability"? wouldnt burrow attack and froststorm breath count as special dps abilities? i dont mind SBs not having the moonfire attack since it can heal now, but blizz could have moved the animation from moonfire to claw or even moved the animation over to the healing skill. does that skill have an animation?

[Kalliope]

I'm afraid that Blizzard isn't likely to put spirit strike in in this capacity, since claw/bite/smack was made the main damage ability for every pet family and class. I miss the moonfire ability too, and the old warp, but I don't think that this is the sort of implementation that Blizzard is going to be receptive to.

There's got to be something that would work, but I don't think we've hit on it yet.

I'm gonna have to agree with her. They've made it clear they don't want pets to have special dps abilities.

what do you classify as a "special dps ability"? wouldnt burrow attack and froststorm breath count as special dps abilities? i dont mind SBs not having the moonfire attack since it can heal now, but blizz could have moved the animation from moonfire to claw or even moved the animation over to the healing skill. does that skill have an animation?

Ooooooooooh, Sila, that's it!

AOE SPIRIT STRIKE.

*nod*

[Anyia]

Ooooooooooh, Sili, that's it!

AOE SPIRIT STRIKE.

Now your tanks will hate you!