The Lich Queen

[Redith]

Ok so after reading some WoW books and game content I have a bad feeling.
Sylvanas has been going ..prettymuch apeshite recently. Using the foresaken blight still and even using Val'kyr to raise dead?
Honestly with Bulvar being the "Jailor of the damned" and not useing them activly, whats to stop Sylvanas from launching a campign to take the Crown for herself so she can "free" her undead brothers and sisters. Im sure in her mind the crown is wasted on Bulvar since hes not even using them.
I could honestly see her becoming the new Boss for the new expansion. You know, the horde trying to "Clean up" their mess, while the Alliance just want her gone since she poses a threat.
Maybie not, but does anyone think she has the potential to actually do that?

[Minifig]

I could see her becoming a huge threat, yes, but, not exactly a boss of some sort.

At least.. not yet.

[Saturo]

She doesn't know about it. Lorewise, as the ones who killed Arthas told everyone else, the lich king is dead, and Bolvar as well. And really, Tirion is NOT the kind of guy to tell Sylvanas something like that.

[Redith]

She doesn't know about it. Lorewise, as the ones who killed Arthas told everyone else, the lich king is dead, and Bolvar as well. And really, Tirion is NOT the kind of guy to tell Sylvanas something like that.

Yes but lore wise there were horde characters that killed the lich king and saw it. You dont think some undead rogue wouldnt tell "Mommy Sylv" about it?

[Minifig]

She doesn't know about it. Lorewise, as the ones who killed Arthas told everyone else, the lich king is dead, and Bolvar as well. And really, Tirion is NOT the kind of guy to tell Sylvanas something like that.

Oh she knows.. she can feel that Arthas is dead. He raised her after all.

[Saturo]

Any hordies that were with on the assault lore-wise would all be loyal to Tirion and the Argent Crusade. Thus not too likely to tell Sylvanas about it.

She doesn't know about it. Lorewise, as the ones who killed Arthas told everyone else, the lich king is dead, and Bolvar as well. And really, Tirion is NOT the kind of guy to tell Sylvanas something like that.

Oh she knows.. she can feel that Arthas is dead. He raised her after all.

Of course she knows he's dead. Everyone does. What she doesn't know is that Bolvar took his place. The Scourge is down, lorewise. All we're waiting for is for someone to "clean up" all the undead.

[Minifig]

Any hordies that were with on the assault lore-wise would all be loyal to Tirion and the Argent Crusade. Thus not too likely to tell Sylvanas about it.

She doesn't know about it. Lorewise, as the ones who killed Arthas told everyone else, the lich king is dead, and Bolvar as well. And really, Tirion is NOT the kind of guy to tell Sylvanas something like that.

Oh she knows.. she can feel that Arthas is dead. He raised her after all.

Of course she knows he's dead. Everyone does. What she doesn't know is that Bolvar took his place. The Scourge is down, lorewise. All we're waiting for is for someone to "clean up" all the undead.

Correct. I can't wait to see what happens when she DOES find out Bolvar took his place.

[Redith]

Either way she knows there is alot of undead ripe for the picking. SHe would find out eventually if she activly seeked them

[Lisaara]

I agree. Sylvanas is going down a very dark and destructive path, which made me lose all respect and love for her. I think she will end up being a boss someday as a Lich Queen.

[Feath3r]

Spoilers ahead, yo!



Personally, I'm more worried about her whole "Total loyalty to the Forsaken Horde or else!" mentality. She can raise her own undead now, she doesn't need to take anything to control the Scourge. Just raise more Forsaken, create more Abominations and spread some plague around.

I know she's been doing what she has to do with the raising of new Forsaken and all, but the whole thing in the Plaguelands makes me uneasy. If she thinks Arthas didn't do a good enough job breaking Koltira and is going to "fix" it herself... what is she willing to do to anyone else? Koltira is a Death Knight, someone who is just short of being a Forsaken himself, and she has absolutely no problem eradicating his ability to care for another person and making him a mindless servant to HER cause (not for the Horde) because she finds him weak. What would she be willing to do to a non-Forsaken (or even one of her own Forsaken) who might have problems with something done for the "benefit" of the Forsaken people as a whole?

[Minifig]

I agree. Sylvanas is going down a very dark and destructive path, which made me lose all respect and love for her. I think she will end up being a boss someday as a Lich Queen.

Are you kidding me? If I was a horde player, I'd totally love where she was going. She's been known to been crazy, and this just establishes it. She's wonderful.

She's trying to keep her "people" alive, and Garrosh isn't leting her.

[Lisaara]

I agree. Sylvanas is going down a very dark and destructive path, which made me lose all respect and love for her. I think she will end up being a boss someday as a Lich Queen.

Are you kidding me? If I was a horde player, I'd totally love where she was going. She's been known to been crazy, and this just establishes it. She's wonderful.

She's trying to keep her "people" alive, and Garrosh isn't leting her.

But the Horde is NOT crazy like her, nor do they want to be like her.

There's a lot more to this than 'her saving the forsaken'. I suggest you look into the whole picture rather than just one section of it.

[Siliverin]

just to add my 2 copper in also, in weatern plaguelands there is a long chain in Andhoal ( sp?) and when Thallalsian ( again sp?) IS not happy about Slyvannas using the Val'kyur and at the end of the chain the ally loose andhoal and he says pretty much he is going to see if he can get to slyvannas and find out WTH she is doing xD

i did the chain on my human hunter last night good chain, but yeah i could see her doing it xD

I dont like her, she is as big headed as Varian... and imo again imo worse.

But yeah... TACOS FOR EVERYONE!

[Cerah]

I have to disagree with the idea that Sylvanus is a tyrant-in-the-making because of her treatment of new Forsaken characters, as of 4.0.3a.

When you first arise as a new Forsaken, the first quests out in Deathknell make it quite clear that the newly undead are given a choice, to either become part of the Forsaken or not. Nobody is forced into it. Another starter quest has you talk to other new Undead, and to try to convince them to join Sylvanus' cause. One joins right away. Another, a former Scarlet, runs off into the woods, and only when he attacks Deathknell with his followers are you told that you must "regretably" put him down. A third, a daughter of a Scarlet officer, runs off on her own. As far as I know, you don't see her again after the Tirstfal glades. Nobody is forced to follow the Banshee Queen, but as an Undead, it's the most logical choice.

In Silverpine, while helping the Forsaken war effort against the Worgen, Sylvanus specifically requests that you, a noob, stand beside her when she demonstrates the Val'kyr's abilities to Garrosh. After, she rides with you to the Sepulcher, telling you the story of the Forsaken personally. She's treating your character so well, taking the time to talk with you, to explain your mission personally, when you were still lying in the dirt days before. Is that the actions of a tyrant? I haven't rolled a new Orc yet, but I seriously doubt that Hellscream is so accomindating to new recruits.

Arthas was a child, playing at being an adult, doing whatever was expected of him, when the only thing he really wanted for himself was to have his horse back. After reading Arthas: Rise of the Lich King, I honestly think that the only thing Arthas ever really loved was Invincible. He was scared shitless of becoming king, of marrying Jaina and having kids of his own -- in short, of growing up. He much prefered going off to kill undead, because slaughtering things, undead or in danger (but in most examples, not yet) of becoming undead, because killing things is much easier than dealing with the living, especially if he could justify it by saying it was "for my people". Arthas was just the kind of person Frostmourne was waiting for.

Sylvanus, in contrast, was, in life, already in a position of high responsiblility. She was Ranger-General of Quel'thalas, in charge of her people's military forces, with hundreds of elves under her and the responsibility of safeguarding her kingdom. She was the opposite of Arthas, someone who did not and would never shrink from her duties. Perhaps that's what pissed him off so badly about her -- he couldn't stand her because she was the hero he could never be, for all his playing Paladin dress up. So after slaughtering her people, he denied her peace in death.

Sylvanus was too strong-willed for even the Lich King's favourite death knight and successor to control, however, and when she had her chance for freedom, she took it, but she did not take it alone. When other scourge regained their free will, she did not abandon them, like almost anyone else would have. There was always the chance that Silvermoon would have welcomed her back, even in undeath, she could have gone home. But for the formerly human undead, whose kingdom was destroyed and whose surviving human families and friends saw them as monsters, there was no chance at that, and Sylvanus did not just leave them to their fates. Instead, she took Undercity away from Arthas' forces, she made a homeland for the people of Lorderan, who had just as much claim to the land in undeath as they did in life, no matter what the Alliance thinks. She gave the Forsaken a home, a purpose, and hope for the future. In short, she did the same for her people as Thrall did for the Orcs, as Cairne did for the Tauren, and Vol'jin for the Darkspear Trolls.

She is no little kid, mad at the world for imaginary unjustices, and throwing one hell of a temper tantram, as Arthas did. Sylvanus is exactly what a leader should be -- an unwaivering advocate for her people. If that makes her evil, then every other faction leader is evil as well.

[Saturo]

Well spoken, Cerah! I agree with everything.

[Feath3r]

Spoilers ahead obviously.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fsw78wHlhrE&

Sylvanas: Arthas clearly failed when he created his death knights, you are still weak.
Sylvanas: Fortunately I have agents that can help you... erase this weakness. Beneath the Undercity you go.
Koltira: (afraid) No!
Sylvanas: Shh... quiet, death knight. When I'm finished with you, your fear will be gone.
Sylvanas: You can thank me later.

If that is what a Horde leader needs to be, I'm joining the Alliance.

[Lisaara]

Spoilers ahead obviously.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fsw78wHlhrE&

Sylvanas: Arthas clearly failed when he created his death knights, you are still weak.
Sylvanas: Fortunately I have agents that can help you... erase this weakness. Beneath the Undercity you go.
Koltira: (afraid) No!
Sylvanas: Shh... quiet, death knight. When I'm finished with you, your fear will be gone.
Sylvanas: You can thank me later.

If that is what a Horde leader needs to be, I'm joining the Alliance.

^ This.

Pretty much proved the point I was making that she's going to try to be more than Arthas and do much more destruction.

[Royi]

Pfft, I would rather follow Sylvanas than Garrosh any day.

She's not about causing havoc and wrecking destruction, she's about survival of her undead people. Sometimes sacrifices have to be made. Heck when I get time I'm going to start a thread of Sylvanas followers. I am hoping for a "forsaken" type of title, I think that would be 100% more amazing than just "Of the Undercity"


Hehe, Emersyn the Forsaken, Goblin Hunter


I think Sylvanas knows about Bolvar, she's more wise than most people give her credit for. I have a feeling that she has a special bond with whomever is the Lich King

[Warfish]

Best thing that could happen:

-Forsaken go Truly Bad, Become Seperate (Playable) Faction.

-Horde Recruit the Walrus-men. I love to roll me a Walrus-man (and yes, I know what they're called, I just like the idea of Walrus-men).

Three Factions, Always at War, the Undead out of the Horde, man that would be grand.

And yes, before the flames, I know that no one here would likely share my enthusiasm for this idea.

[Vephriel]

I have to disagree with the idea that Sylvanus is a tyrant-in-the-making because of her treatment of new Forsaken characters, as of 4.0.3a.

When you first arise as a new Forsaken, the first quests out in Deathknell make it quite clear that the newly undead are given a choice, to either become part of the Forsaken or not. Nobody is forced into it. Another starter quest has you talk to other new Undead, and to try to convince them to join Sylvanus' cause. One joins right away. Another, a former Scarlet, runs off into the woods, and only when he attacks Deathknell with his followers are you told that you must "regretably" put him down. A third, a daughter of a Scarlet officer, runs off on her own. As far as I know, you don't see her again after the Tirstfal glades. Nobody is forced to follow the Banshee Queen, but as an Undead, it's the most logical choice.

In Silverpine, while helping the Forsaken war effort against the Worgen, Sylvanus specifically requests that you, a noob, stand beside her when she demonstrates the Val'kyr's abilities to Garrosh. After, she rides with you to the Sepulcher, telling you the story of the Forsaken personally. She's treating your character so well, taking the time to talk with you, to explain your mission personally, when you were still lying in the dirt days before. Is that the actions of a tyrant? I haven't rolled a new Orc yet, but I seriously doubt that Hellscream is so accomindating to new recruits.

Arthas was a child, playing at being an adult, doing whatever was expected of him, when the only thing he really wanted for himself was to have his horse back. After reading Arthas: Rise of the Lich King, I honestly think that the only thing Arthas ever really loved was Invincible. He was scared shitless of becoming king, of marrying Jaina and having kids of his own -- in short, of growing up. He much prefered going off to kill undead, because slaughtering things, undead or in danger (but in most examples, not yet) of becoming undead, because killing things is much easier than dealing with the living, especially if he could justify it by saying it was "for my people". Arthas was just the kind of person Frostmourne was waiting for.

Sylvanus, in contrast, was, in life, already in a position of high responsiblility. She was Ranger-General of Quel'thalas, in charge of her people's military forces, with hundreds of elves under her and the responsibility of safeguarding her kingdom. She was the opposite of Arthas, someone who did not and would never shrink from her duties. Perhaps that's what pissed him off so badly about her -- he couldn't stand her because she was the hero he could never be, for all his playing Paladin dress up. So after slaughtering her people, he denied her peace in death.

Sylvanus was too strong-willed for even the Lich King's favourite death knight and successor to control, however, and when she had her chance for freedom, she took it, but she did not take it alone. When other scourge regained their free will, she did not abandon them, like almost anyone else would have. There was always the chance that Silvermoon would have welcomed her back, even in undeath, she could have gone home. But for the formerly human undead, whose kingdom was destroyed and whose surviving human families and friends saw them as monsters, there was no chance at that, and Sylvanus did not just leave them to their fates. Instead, she took Undercity away from Arthas' forces, she made a homeland for the people of Lorderan, who had just as much claim to the land in undeath as they did in life, no matter what the Alliance thinks. She gave the Forsaken a home, a purpose, and hope for the future. In short, she did the same for her people as Thrall did for the Orcs, as Cairne did for the Tauren, and Vol'jin for the Darkspear Trolls.

She is no little kid, mad at the world for imaginary unjustices, and throwing one hell of a temper tantram, as Arthas did. Sylvanus is exactly what a leader should be -- an unwaivering advocate for her people. If that makes her evil, then every other faction leader is evil as well.

^QFT
She's by far my favourite lore character.