Nesingwary Dungeon Group

[Turgus]

Hey guys, I was pugging it up on my druid tank (of the same name) and I was thinking that with so many others in the guild that maybe we could get an organized group together to dominate the dungeons.
No more, "roll your dice and see what you get" pugs.
And a bonus would be that it would earn rep for the guild and work towards the guild achievements.

Tell me what you guys (and gals) think.

[Ryno]

I strongly disagree with doing these types of things.

You want to bring guildies into a group for a dungeon? A raid? PvP? Go for it, by all means.

You want to make a special group, that you tend to run with all the time, excluding others as you're gearing up together and building relationships with just a selected group of people? No thanks, I hate things like that.

I'm not saying to not group with a guildie or something twice in a row or something, nothing like that. I just don't want to see little cliques forming up. Really, really get's to me when you see a group in a guild succeed while others wanting to do the same thing cannot due to lack of people.

[Turgus]

You are making examples of problems that can arise from organization.
Is the possibility of problems worth giving up on the idea and not trying at all?
I don't think so.

I like the community that our guild has, but I would really like to see people in the guild running stuff together.
It seems to me there is no organization with doing dungeons and everyone is pugging it up.

Maybe I am being a bit selfish in wanting to run with guildies?
Maybe I want to run with people I know, and I know can handle their class. I can't deny that is not a part of it.
But there is more to it than that.

I would love to see our guild advance, not in just achievements, but in each little advancement that each individual makes, little by little.
To see people online, knowing that we were really working together, accomplishing something... however minor, be it beating a certain boss, or helping someone get that last bit of rep or whatever to get a mount, or really.... anything.

Thats really the core of what I am throwing out there.
Maybe this is the wrong guild for that.
Thats why I was tossing out here on the forums.
To see. To test the waters. Thats it.

[Royi]

I just don't want to see little clicks (spelled wrong, can't find the right spelling, meh)

Its spelled "clique"

[Ryno]

I wasn't saying don't do it, I was just wanting to point out you shouldn't make a specific group and exclude others. That's all.

[Royi]

i wouldnt mind making a group up of people who might still be interested in getting the Red Proto Drake from the WOTLK heroic achievements.

Also the drakes from ULD10 or ULD25 would be fun to work towards. I think those raids at lvl 85 would be really fun to go back and whip through the achievements (prolly 10 would be easier), and nab a Starcaller Title eventually too

[zedxrgal]

I wasn't saying don't do it, I was just wanting to point out you shouldn't make a specific group and exclude others. That's all.

This.

No one enjoys feeling left out or unpicked or anything the like especially when it's something they enjoy. I know I don't and I feel that if what you're saying is created the chance of others possibly being left out can happen. Not saying it "for sure" will but it's a high possibility.

Also even in a guild run things are still rolled for just as much as they are in a pug. Unless one person sets up a group for a specific item /pet then that item /pet of course is automatically awarded to that member when /if it pops up. So that's something you won't be getting away from regardless. I said that because of how I'm taking your post.

[Turgus]

Instances are 5-man runs, and there are tons of DPS in our guild, and very few tanks and healers.
So yes, if I get a group run going there will be some people left out of each run.

Did I say that only my "buddies" will get to go along for the ride?
No.
And I take offense to any insinuation of the sort.
Seriously, I have setup and run dungeon groups to get tons of people geared in my old guilds.
Yes, even the players that were lackluster.

So whatever notion of what you think I am up to, or what motivation I have in doing this, you better reassess it.

[Ryno]

I believe trade chat would chime in with "UMADBRO?" at this time.

But seriously, I didn't mean to cause you to take offense. You have to realize I don't know anything about what you're planning besides what you posted here. I just wanted to put that out there. Notion of what I think you're up to? I thought you wanted to help guildies gear up, get achievements, and experience 5 man dungeons. That's what it sounded like to me at least.

[zedxrgal]

I believe trade chat would chime in with "UMADBRO?" at this time.

But seriously, I didn't mean to cause you to take offense. You have to realize I don't know anything about what you're planning besides what you posted here. I just wanted to put that out there. Notion of what I think you're up to? I thought you wanted to help guildies gear up, get achievements, and experience 5 man dungeons. That's what it sounded like to me at least.

This. Again. lol

Ryno is so full of wisdom!

There's no need to take offense or that we're attempting to be mean. And there are several tanks /healers in the guild and many are higher levels some 80's. So the "no one gets left out" truly applies and there is no real reason for that to have been said. I understand your new and may not be versed in all the folks we have in there.

So please don't take offense we're only trying help.

Setting up a 5 man run would be VERY easy to do and be sure to have all the players you need without anyone feeling left out. It's about being polite, diplomatic and how you do it. That's all I was attempting to relay and I'm sorry you felt offended.

[Felidire]

I like the community that our guild has, but I would really like to see people in the guild running stuff together.
It seems to me there is no organization with doing dungeons and everyone is pugging it up.

In terms of dungeons/heroics, there isn't any organization whatsoever (or at least nothing that i've noticed.) I can't foresee any problems arising from this, and I don't think that the majority of the guild has any ambitions to run normals/heroics on a regular basis (at least not for the moment.) If they did want to, then chances are this topic would've arisen long before now.. plus you would be able to ask in /g if anyone wanted to tag along on a run; which most people only seem to respond to if a guildie needs something out of a particular instance (i.e. They help out, but aren't really all that keen on doing instances for the enjoyment or their own personal gain -- which is what you want, and what the guild currently lacks.)

If you're a good tank then i'll do runs with you, just send me a tell in-game when you feel like starting a group. I'm more pointed towards heroics atm, but I can run a few normal instances if you still need gear.

(You are on our server, right..?) XD

Edit: Once I get my tank up to 85, maybe we can start organizing some actual cata raids. I'm quite keen on doing TB and BWD. I'd assume that you require 2 tanks for at least one of those instances?

[VelkynKarma]

I'm sure if you just spoke up in Gchat and said 'hey, anybody want to run a few instances?' a few people would certainly join in. All you need to do is ask; it happened plenty of times in the WOTLK era.

For me at least, dungeon-running is an entirely whimsical sort of thing. Some days I'm down for running dungeons all day, and some days I'd prefer to just quest or level professions or whatever. I think a lot of guildies are the same way, so getting a specific 'dungeon-running group' together for just that purpose probably wouldn't work out so well anyway. Not to mention since Cata is still new and everyone is trying to experience all the content at once, the interest in dungeons may or may not be especially high right now.

Plus I do agree with Ryno on this. Whether or not you INTENDED to sound like you were excluding people that is also how I, at least, read the initial post. I don't think I'd support a 'dungeon team' personally, just because it does sound a little elitist and could exclude people who want to play that content on a different day. But like I said, if you pipe up in Gchat with, "hey guys, anybody want to beat X dungeon with me" or "Hey all, want to go for Y dungeon achievement?" I'm sure a few people would be willing to join in.

Just remember Petopians is a pretty casual guild, and hunters, hunter pets, and (sometimes wacky) socialization tend to come first.

~VelkynKarma

[Felidire]

There's already a number of people in the guild who have bonded, and have their favourites - who they'd rather be helping in place of other guildies - I noticed this within a week of joining, and it's totally normal; most guilds function like this. I'm not saying that no one helps eachother or that it's a bad guild, quite the opposite, actually.. but if you put 25 of us in a row and had 5 people pick who they wanted to do a dungeon with, I can pretty much guarantee that the people choosing would be much more inclined to ask their friends to run with them as opposed to the rest of the guild members.

As long as people get a chance to run when they really want to, then it shouldn't really matter? If the guild was loaded w/ five dozen lv.85 PvE dungeon enthusiasts, and there were only 1 or 2 tanks, then i'd understand where you guys were coming from.. We just don't have those numbers or that kind of enthusiasm, what we'll most probably be doing here is finding 2 or 3 people from the guild who want to run on a regular basis, and then joining the Random Dungeon Finder to get fillers.

Most of the guild are nice people, so in the unlikely event that we do establish a 5/5 solid dungeon group, I can't envisage any one of those five turning around and saying "gtfo, make your own grp!" to someone in the guild who wanted to go on a run with them. If someone wants my position then be my guest, just be prepared to get whispers every 20-30 minutes to see how the group is doing. <3

[Turgus]

I believe trade chat would chime in with "UMADBRO?" at this time.

But seriously, I didn't mean to cause you to take offense. You have to realize I don't know anything about what you're planning besides what you posted here. I just wanted to put that out there. Notion of what I think you're up to? I thought you wanted to help guildies gear up, get achievements, and experience 5 man dungeons. That's what it sounded like to me at least.

Yes I was a little mad.
Instead of getting, "Sure, I would be interested in a guild run." Or "No, I prefer to run things solo." responses, I get something else.
And you DID insinuate what I was planning with your first post in your thread.

Quoted here for your benefit.

I strongly disagree with doing these types of things.

You want to bring guildies into a group for a dungeon? A raid? PvP? Go for it, by all means.

You want to make a special group, that you tend to run with all the time, excluding others as you're gearing up together and building relationships with just a selected group of people? No thanks, I hate things like that.

I'm not saying to not group with a guildie or something twice in a row or something, nothing like that. I just don't want to see little cliques forming up. Really, really get's to me when you see a group in a guild succeed while others wanting to do the same thing cannot due to lack of people.

In my first post I wrote about forming a group to run dungeons, I did not say how large the group would be, be it 5 members, 10, 20, or whatever, because I had no idea how many people would be interested in doing organized runs.

I posted a response elaborating on the fact that I was not interested in creating a "exclusive group" or whatever, but instead was interested in running with people who knew what they were doing.
I also explained what I was trying to accomplish as best as I could.
So then you back track and repeat what I just stated, trying to make it seem as if you hadn't jumped to a conclusion about my simple "test the waters" post.

I wasn't saying don't do it, I was just wanting to point out you shouldn't make a specific group and exclude others. That's all.

I then go on to state that I would exclude people from my group, people who don't know how to play the game, or play effectively, as well as some DPS players would be left out because they are quite numerous in our guild. (Hunter Guild....)
Because to state that I would not exclude anyone would be false.

I was offended by the assumptions that you have made, which are obvious in your posts (To ME) , and stated such in an attempt to stop you from making any more assumptions.

And then you respond with:

I believe trade chat would chime in with "UMADBRO?" at this time.

But seriously, I didn't mean to cause you to take offense. You have to realize I don't know anything about what you're planning besides what you posted here. I just wanted to put that out there. Notion of what I think you're up to? I thought you wanted to help guildies gear up, get achievements, and experience 5 man dungeons. That's what it sounded like to me at least.

You didn't want me to take offense?
Like "Saying UMADBRO?"
Oh right, because you didn't "write it," someone in trade chat would have written it...

Those kind of statements do not amuse me.
I suggest that you reread you posts if you "really" don't want people to take "offense."


That said, back on track.

My biggest point is this: If anyone has questions, ASK THEM.
If that is too hard for you to do, expect me to respond in kind.

I WILL take offense to rude and offensive statements, especially ones made in the guise of Humor.
Because those "jokes" are the most numerous and blatant way that things such as ignorance, racism and prejudice continue to abound in our society.


All that aside, I am having some computer problems.
Apparently WoW doesn't like my new updated video drivers.
Until I figure it out, playing will have to go on the sidelines for a bit.

[Ryno]

I see.

I apologize for my behavior that offended you.

Humor to me, is the main way I communicate. I really find it difficult to talk to people without it. I understand where you're coming from. Or, more accurately, I do now after reading your comment.

I'm sorry to hear your computer is having problems. D;

I look forward to when the problems are worked out and you begin organizing runs for the guild.

[Royi]

I believe trade chat would chime in with "UMADBRO?" at this time.

But seriously, I didn't mean to cause you to take offense. You have to realize I don't know anything about what you're planning besides what you posted here. I just wanted to put that out there. Notion of what I think you're up to? I thought you wanted to help guildies gear up, get achievements, and experience 5 man dungeons. That's what it sounded like to me at least.

Yes I was a little mad.
Instead of getting, "Sure, I would be interested in a guild run." Or "No, I prefer to run things solo." responses, I get something else.
And you DID insinuate what I was planning with your first post in your thread.

Quoted here for your benefit.

I strongly disagree with doing these types of things.

You want to bring guildies into a group for a dungeon? A raid? PvP? Go for it, by all means.

You want to make a special group, that you tend to run with all the time, excluding others as you're gearing up together and building relationships with just a selected group of people? No thanks, I hate things like that.

I'm not saying to not group with a guildie or something twice in a row or something, nothing like that. I just don't want to see little cliques forming up. Really, really get's to me when you see a group in a guild succeed while others wanting to do the same thing cannot due to lack of people.

In my first post I wrote about forming a group to run dungeons, I did not say how large the group would be, be it 5 members, 10, 20, or whatever, because I had no idea how many people would be interested in doing organized runs.

I posted a response elaborating on the fact that I was not interested in creating a "exclusive group" or whatever, but instead was interested in running with people who knew what they were doing.
I also explained what I was trying to accomplish as best as I could.
So then you back track and repeat what I just stated, trying to make it seem as if you hadn't jumped to a conclusion about my simple "test the waters" post.

I wasn't saying don't do it, I was just wanting to point out you shouldn't make a specific group and exclude others. That's all.

I then go on to state that I would exclude people from my group, people who don't know how to play the game, or play effectively, as well as some DPS players would be left out because they are quite numerous in our guild. (Hunter Guild....)
Because to state that I would not exclude anyone would be false.

I was offended by the assumptions that you have made, which are obvious in your posts (To ME) , and stated such in an attempt to stop you from making any more assumptions.

And then you respond with:

I believe trade chat would chime in with "UMADBRO?" at this time.

But seriously, I didn't mean to cause you to take offense. You have to realize I don't know anything about what you're planning besides what you posted here. I just wanted to put that out there. Notion of what I think you're up to? I thought you wanted to help guildies gear up, get achievements, and experience 5 man dungeons. That's what it sounded like to me at least.

You didn't want me to take offense?
Like "Saying UMADBRO?"
Oh right, because you didn't "write it," someone in trade chat would have written it...

Those kind of statements do not amuse me.
I suggest that you reread you posts if you "really" don't want people to take "offense."


That said, back on track.

My biggest point is this: If anyone has questions, ASK THEM.
If that is too hard for you to do, expect me to respond in kind.

I WILL take offense to rude and offensive statements, especially ones made in the guise of Humor.
Because those "jokes" are the most numerous and blatant way that things such as ignorance, racism and prejudice continue to abound in our society.


All that aside, I am having some computer problems.
Apparently WoW doesn't like my new updated video drivers.
Until I figure it out, playing will have to go on the sidelines for a bit.

UMADBRO?

Alot of typing here directed at getting back at Ryno. He's just joking around, this is a forum which are generally jokes and not serious to begin with, about a game thats generally joking and not serious to begin with. If you want to lash out at 15 different points against someone, I would stick with a PM or something.

[Felidire]

All that aside, I am having some computer problems.
Apparently WoW doesn't like my new updated video drivers.
Until I figure it out, playing will have to go on the sidelines for a bit.

I was having some nasty WoW issues when I updated my GTX 285, so I just rolled back to the previous drivers that I was using and eventually things cleared up; have you tried doing that as of yet?

[Turgus]

First off, Ryno thank you for you latest post.
I really appreciate it.
I really do.

I can both understand and appreciate using humor to make things "lighter."
I am sorry that I felt offended at your attempt to lighten up the thread, as that was not your intent at all.

All in all, I am sorry this whole thing unfolded the way it did.
I hope that we can get to understand each other better in the future, and heck, even do some runs or something!




Now to answer some questions, as I had requested in my last post, that were put forth to me by Royi.
First off, thank you for the questions.

Royi wrote:
UMADBRO?

Alot of typing here directed at getting back at Ryno. He's just joking around, this is a forum which are generally jokes and not serious to begin with, about a game thats generally joking and not serious to begin with. If you want to lash out at 15 different points against someone, I would stick with a PM or something.

No I am not mad. I feel that our conflict has been resolved.
Of course, that is yet to be seen, but I am hopeful.

Was I getting back at Ryno? Or trying to get back at Ryno?
No.

I posted the above post to try to help him understand where I was coming from.
To help resolve the conflict that we had, which really was due to a difference in communication styles.
Add in the internet and how so much information like voice inflection and body stance that are so important to communication, especially when it comes to jokes which is lost, well, you have the perfect recipe for misunderstanding.
(As demonstrated by the above thread.)

So, no ill intent or purpose.
And no, I was not lashing out.
I thought I communicated my concerns quite rationally.
Of course that is my opinion on the matter.

If I have a dispute with someone I prefer to talk it out, so we both can get to an understanding.

Please don't start the "It was JUST a Joke man!" stuff.
Because it is only a joke if everyone involved agrees it is such.
I didn't feel it was, so I was well within my rights to object.

And yes, I agree, this forum is generally filled with humor and jokes, but one must not shy away from conflict, regardless of its form.

No. I did not have 15 points, I only had 6 or so.

Yes. Maybe a PM would have been a better idea, so I will look into doing that next time.
Thank you for the idea, I didn't think of it.



As to my computer issues, I thought it was the drivers, but I think it is not the video card drivers anymore.
I updated some drivers, but I haven't been able to figure out just what they were.
(Got to love late night updating... lol)