Catlitter or the open wild?

[Saturo]

I see I just got quoted in a sig. ^^ Yay me!

[Ryai]

Well Ryai ferrets.stoats and Weasels all kill native birds not just for food too. In nz they are a big problem as they kill kiwis just for there homes and not just for food.

Ah I forgot you lived there, but still it's probably not helping :/

Yes I do know the sandpit was bad hence why my dad got rid of it my god Ryai stop acting like you know me or are smarter than me jezz.

Um I don't think I was?

Just becouse someone lets there cat be a indoor/outdoor cat does not mean they are not a responsible owner. Nearly ever person I know who has a cat here lets them be a indoor/ourtdoor cat and they are all responsible owners.

I'm not saying you aren't a responsible owner, but I am coming from someone who has had indoor cats become outdoor cats because of her parents and unforseen incidents and in all cases of this happening it always ended badly, one of my cats had to be rehomed- another was stolen away or died, I do not know which, and Cuddles my latest cat to go MIA either died or was snatched.

This is why I am also against Indoor/outdoor because you bring the possibility of grief and strife that you would not have to go through or experience- not just the impact on local wildlife from cat fecal mater OR their claws and teeth.

There's also the fact that I can say here, where I live, everyone else on my street that owns cats has them all as outdoor creatures and are NOT responsible, all of the cats we rescued have been because of 'indoor/outdoor' cats, one specifically was. So I am not as open doors policy about this because it just doesn't sit right with me.

I have also seen the opposite, people moving and dumping indoor cats outdoors and... it's never pretty.

[cowmuflage]

Yeah I know Slyvesters proverly not helping the native wildlife but hes only killed like 8 things in the last 2 years and the only native ones where to skinks most are sparrows and mice:S Hes like 20 so its a wonder he can get anything thats not in his bowl lol.
He tryed a Pukeko once but he ended up the loser with a chunk of his nose missing. That I can say was not the best for the indoo/outdoor thing but he learnd not to piss those things off and hes never been to the mangroves out back since he got covered in sticking mud and had to get shaved.

I do have to say I only know one person here who has a indoor cat. She lives in the city. They are just are not a common sight here your more likely to see a kid get mualed by some maoris dog witch is sad (Beleave me that does happen lots and its sad) and I'd rather see more indoor cats than those kinds of dogs.

I do have to say haveing a indoor cat would keep them safe from the crazy dog people who hurt/kill any cats they see on there lawn. Like the guy in the south island who would put them in upside down shoping trollys and drown or shot them

[Acherontia]

Unfortunately I can't make out a lot of what you're saying But I'll say this:

It's nice for a cat in a safe area to be allowed to roam free, and I much prefer that for the cat. But, it is not fair to the wildlife. If you're in a place with a lot of birds and mice etc, the happiness of your cat--which you're responsible for bringing to the home, and responsible for its actions--should take a backseat to the lives of native wildlife, and the health of the ecosystem.

The effect that pet cats have on the US wildlife as a whole, for example, is just astounding. I think about seven or so years ago, when I last read a study on it, it was something like 330 MILLION songbirds (JUST songbirds!) killed by domestic cats in one year.

So as much as I'd love to let a pet cat roam free, as my family has done since I was a kid, I wouldn't do it with my own because I just don't feel it's fair to the environment. Maybe if you're in a place where cats are a native species you could justify it well enough with "circle of life," but otherwise, it's really a... well, heated topic at best.

Edit--have a read here (PDF download) if you think I may be overstating it. THIS study tallies birds and other small animals worldwide, and here's a quote:

Based on studies from across the US, it is estimated that in the US cats kill over a billion small mammals and millions of birds each year (Coleman et al., 1997).

One of the most interesting statements is that because cats are fed by humans, their populations don't fluctuate with the prey--so they could hunt prey species to extinction, since their own numbers wouldn't drop from starvation due to the prey species' own rarity!

[Saturo]

Acherontia: "Nobody feed your pets! Their population must fluctuate along with their prey!"

[Acherontia]

YES! That is exactly my point. I knew someone would pick it up quickly!

[cowmuflage]

Nearly all the birds I see in my back lawn are all non native birds sparrows,black birds,Thrushes,the odd parrot and a few doves . Those birds don't help the ecosystem one bit nor do the mice. :S

The only native birds I have seen around here are Pukekos and a few Tuis and those are a bit to big for a cat to take down let alone one of the New Zealand Pigeon we sometimes get. Those things are huge! 51 cm is a big bird bigger than most cats. I mean the rats we get do more damage to the natives around here than the cats.

[Acherontia]

I'm talking about in general, cowmuflage, not just you

[cowmuflage]

Well ok then seem like you where. Anyway my cat slyvester nowadays gets picked on by the birds he used to hunt. Hes too old to care anymore really like "eh I'll just go eat some cat food it does not run away".

[Acherontia]

Nope. That said, if it was New Zealand you're in, "it is estimated that feral cats have been responsible for the extinction of six endemic bird species and over 70 localised subspecies as well as depleting bird and lizard species." At least your kitty is old and not bothering 'em anymore, but I wouldn't say the area is okay for cats either

[cowmuflage]

Well its not like cats are the only things endangering the NZ wildlife every single animal we have brought here is doing its toll on everything :S. From the little mice to the biggest dog they all do a huge amount of damage. Thats what you get from bringing mammels to a island where the only mammel is a bat and the only meat eaters are a hawk and a falcon and 90% of all non bug wildlife are birds :S Our wildlife heres been screwd ever since the first maoris came here.

Now you have to understand most of our wildlife do not go out of the bush hence why in places like where i live you hardly ever see the small birds and thats manly from the non native birds being more competivie than our ones. You can't really go outside and see lots of our native birds unless you want to go on a hike!

So truely no areas in New zealand are okay for any form of mammel as none of our wildlife knows what the hell a non bat is!

I know your not saying this but it gets me is that here when Dog lovers say cats should be banned/killed cos they kill birds etc and yet they forget that dogs are the 2nd biggest danger to our native flightless birds .

[Acherontia]

I've never said cats should be banned or killed O.o But saying that other mammals pose a threat isn't an excuse to let other types of mammals roam when they'd be safer (and when it's safer for the wildlife) indoors. Just my 2 cents--if dogs are a major problem in an area, then obviously they too shouldn't be allowed to roam there!

[cowmuflage]

Aye you tell those dog owners who take there dogs on walks in bush with huge signs saying "NO DOGS AT ALL" then get all sad when the pound has to put their doggy down for killing some rare bird some folks need to read lol

Oh I did not say you said that thing bout the dogs XD

[Acherontia]

Oh dear lord, that sounds like a horrible situation

And sorry yeah--misread >.<

[cowmuflage]

No prob mate. Yeah not the best situation to be in but them the rules I guess

[Razzy]

My kitty uses his ever-fancy covered litter box. He's such a picky fellow, since he'll wait until I scoop his box completely clean, and then run in and drop numbers one and two. But I love him anyway.

Also, just throwing it out there that I love clumping litter. I hate cleaning litter boxes with non-clumping litter. The ammonia, oh the ammonia.

[Mozag]

Yup, our cat is an indoor one, as well, since there are enough stray cats in this town, and I'd rather that mine doesn't get hit by a car, get into fights, get abused by some insane people (I've heard stories of kids attaching fireworks to cats' backs here). She likes her covered litter box, but funnily enough hates it after I clean it completely. As soon as I do, she goes in, throws the sand about in a hissy fit and pees somewhere else in the house. Once I started to always add a little bit of her old, smelly sand into the newly cleaned out box, she's been satisfied.

[Calomel]

I grew up with cats that required no litter boxes, they did their business outside and kept the mice and other stray cats away. They also ended up dying young of medical problems probably developed by having a poor diet and eating things they really should not have been eating.

My two cats now, however, are indoor-only. We live in the city and I wouldn't expose them to stray dogs, hawks, cars, teenage kids (oh god, no) and all the chemical crap people put in their lawns. One of them is front-declawed, the other just doesn't have any instincts for outdoor survival at all. So they stay inside where it's warm and safe and they get to sleep in the sun coming through the windows or on the back of my computer chair.