SV got screwed hardcore

[malikith]

At first they intended to drop our AGI by 5%. That would be a big change in our DPS... NOW they have reduced our top abilities by 25%.

Read the Patch notes if you don't know what I am talking about.

I am more than mildly miffed.

[Ryai]

At first they intended to drop our AGI by 5%. That would be a big change in our DPS... NOW they have reduced our top abilities by 25%.

Read the Patch notes if you don't know what I am talking about.

I am more than mildly miffed.

Well you're not anymore miffed than I was when told blatantly by others to roll SV or MM, but mostly SV and anything else seemed to make me a pathetic waste of trash or overlooked for groups or the pugable raids in wrath's time.

There's also the fact it seems still far to ingrained to be SV for dungeons as recently I've had people actually question why I was BM for dungeons. And mind you this question was from, yep you guessed it, Survival Hunters.

Tbh it feels that they're just trying to make it feel like you're not forced to roll SV for serious damage [outside of what skill would bring].

[Sasrei]

Uhh yah Surv spec got hit hard. I understand a slight nerf and maybe uping the dps of the other specs. But what they did was get rid of any AOE we had.. (MS with SS is.. useless now), and nerfed surv so that its on par with the other sub par specs. From Ive been seeing on the PTR I lose 2k dps.
MM spec and BM spec really get no buff whatsoever and now hunters are now back to mid-bottom of the pack.

And uhh Ryai people will ALWAYS complain if your in BM spec, BM got hit hard and though there are good BM hunters out there, people assume automatically that if your BM spec your dps sucks.

But what happened is that use hunters were close to being top DPS! OMG blizzard call out the nerf bat!

I understand the 5% less agility, but like everyone else is saying for our only two specific shots to get nerfed so badly its scary.

Now what it looks like hunters again probably wont get into raids as we have no AOE likes mages, locks, I mean we have CC but.. who doesnt.. we have pets but their buffs can be brought by another class, rogues can "FoK".

So im miffed cause I enjoy raiding but now it looks like ill either have to relearn an entire new spec or see what happens and hope I can still get into raids.

[Ryai]

Uhh yah Surv spec got hit hard. I understand a slight nerf and maybe uping the dps of the other specs. But what they did was get rid of any AOE we had.. (MS with SS is.. useless now), and nerfed surv so that its on par with the other sub par specs. From Ive been seeing on the PTR I lose 2k dps.
MM spec and BM spec really get no buff whatsoever and now hunters are now back to mid-bottom of the pack.

So uh it's nice you basically call MM and BM sub-par when they were trying to afaik bring SV in line with BM and MM so people wouldn't scream at you for not being SV.

You know.

Like in WotlK.

They also are STILL balancing things you know? Mean they only just now rebuffed KC. They will most likely still tinker and fix things. They ALWAYS tinker and fix or break things each patch or after a month they decide that something broken must be fixed, or something decent must be broken. It's how WoW always is, and always will be.

And uhh Ryai people will ALWAYS complain if your in BM spec, BM got hit hard and though there are good BM hunters out there, people assume automatically that if your BM spec your dps sucks.

Yes my DPS on multiple targets sucks- but on boss fights where my dps matters it is usually as high as anything else. I mean hells bells recount once had me listed as lowest DPS but highest overall damage done, so wtf @ that.

But what happened is that use hunters were close to being top DPS! OMG blizzard call out the nerf bat!

No, you forget, it's not Hunters, just Surv hunters were the highest, And it's ALWAYS like this, first BM was doing to much damage, and everyone agreed oh to much damage needs to be nerfed and lol look what happened. Then SV was buffed, dramatically so because blizzard decided more buttons to press = more rewards. Which is lol.

Then after that MM was FotM then it was SV and then MM and then SV and etc etc..

I understand the 5% less agility, but like everyone else is saying for our only two specific shots to get nerfed so badly its scary.

And look what happened for BM, our KC was nerfed pretty badly because people were crying numbers at 85 were to op but it's slowly being rebuffed. So guess what, your shots are going to be rebuffed. Guess why? The game is not complete. So chill.

Now what it looks like hunters again probably wont get into raids as we have no AOE likes mages, locks, I mean we have CC but.. who doesnt.. we have pets but their buffs can be brought by another class, rogues can "FoK".

We can trap a target for a minute and a half nearly, and given the right set up we can trap two targets at once. If a tank hadn't broken my CC I'd have been as viable as a rogue was for Rosa's whatever the hell that air dungeon is in Uldum. Who cares about AoE, Blizz has constantly gone out of their way to nerf AoE because they don't want us just easily breezing through things to quickly, I mean hell I can use hurricane on my druid Coal but I only do it as a last resort or when there's atleast 6+ creatures in there and it's more efficient to spam hurricane than tab alt moonfire+insect swarm as I cba to waste time casting wrath and get no dps done.

So im miffed cause I enjoy raiding but now it looks like ill either have to relearn an entire new spec or see what happens and hope I can still get into raids.

If you're raiding with your guild I doubt they'll care as they know you can bring it, if it's for pugs well, I learned in Wrath puggers are usually stick in the mud idiots who don't give a damn.

So yeah TLDR in a month SV will most likely be buffed and BM nerfed, that's how blizzard rolls.

[Lisaara]

SV got hit hard but they're not by any means 'screwed'. They're trying to level the playing field so, yanno, MM and BM can actually compete.

[malikith]

Better to bring MM and BM up Than pull SV so far down. SO yes. SV did get Screwed. Hardcore. No vaseline and no reach around.

[Ryai]

Better to bring MM and BM up Than pull SV so far down. SO yes. SV did get Screwed. Hardcore. No vaseline and no reach around.

So since I guess you didn't read my TLDR of they're going to most likely rebuff SV down the road-

You do know no nerf or buff is ever permanent, right? And you do know KC was nerfed- and now rebuffed, right? So this means that SV will most likely be what now? Nerfed and rebuffed.

As I said you guys are way, way over reacting. You aren't being nerfed into the ground like BM was, and as I said before NOTHING is permanent. Remember how op DKs were? Then they were brought into line mostly. All classes are again, still being tweaked and balanced, as are all speccs. Mean what 2/3 weeks ago it was holy Paladins?

Now it's Surv hunters.

Next month it'll most likely be Mages. Or something.

If you still believe you are all still so screwed over why not post on the official forums?

[Cozzene]

Yeah... Have to agree in a way. I'd rather see the other two specs get uberbuffed vs a slight buff and a Surv nerf =\

[Comett]

SV definitely needed a nerf, or BM and MM needed a buff - and as an SV hunter I can see that! However what has me reeling is that other classes which are FAR outstripping hunters (mages I'm looking at you haha) are not only not getting a nerf, but instead are getting a buff. Our mage was doing 40k (yes, 40k) burst, 20k average, in a 5 man. If that doesn't need a nerf I don't know what else does!

I for one am hoping that BM will be viable this patch so I can sneak back to BM. ^_^ It does look incredibly nasty, how they've hit Surv, but perhaps it won't be quite so bad. Ehhh. Perhaps.

[Slickrock]

Some of the changes just got scaled back or reverted.

Hunters


* Aimed Shot weapon damage has been increased to 200%, up from 150%. In addition, the base cast time has been reduced to 2.4 seconds, down from 3.

* Arcane Shot damage has been increased by 15%.

* Aspect of the Wild, Aspect of the Hawk, and Aspect of the Fox can now be cast while mounted.

* Hunters can now use Auto Shot while moving.

* Concussive Shot duration has been increased to 6 seconds, up from 4.

* Deterrence now provides 100% chance for melee attacks to miss instead of 100% parry chance. This means that attacks that cannot be parried, notably some rogue abilities, can now be prevented by Deterrence, and the hunter will gain the benefit of Deterrence even if disarmed.

* Dust Cloud's cooldown and duration have been modified to make it closer aligned with Tailspin (same effect, different pet).

* Freezing Trap now has a PvP duration of 8 seconds.

* Kill Command's damage has been increased by 20%.

* Kill Shot's attack power scaling has been increased by 50%.

* Master's Call now has a 35-second cooldown, down from 1 minute, and its range has been increased to 40 yards, up from 25. In addition, the visual effect is more obvious.

* Wing Clip now has a PvP duration of 8 seconds.

* Talent Specializations


o Beast Mastery


+ Animal Handler now provides a passive 25% bonus to attack power, up from 15%.




o Marksmanship


+ Chimera Shot's overall damage has been increased by roughly 50%.

+ Wild Quiver (Mastery): Chance for this to trigger per mastery has been increased by approximately 17%.




o Survival


+ Black Arrow damage has been reduced by 15%.

+ Explosive Shot damage has been reduced by 15%.

+ Hunter vs. Wild has been increased to 5/10/15% Stamina, up from 4/8/12%.

+ Into the Wilderness (passive) has been reduced to a 10% Agility increase, down from 15%.







* Pets


o Pets now have 70% of the master's armor, rather than a different value based on which type of pet they are.

o Shale Spiders now correctly have a special ability (Web Wrap).

o Bad Manner (monkey) now properly breaks from damage.




* Glyphs


o Glyph of Concussive Shot redesigned. It now limits the maximum run speed of the target while Concussive Shot is active.




* Bug Fixes


o Cobra Shot now properly increases the duration of the Serpent Spread Serpent Sting.

[Adam-Savage]

At first they intended to drop our AGI by 5%. That would be a big change in our DPS... NOW they have reduced our top abilities by 25%.

Read the Patch notes if you don't know what I am talking about.

I am more than mildly miffed.

PTR just started so it's still much to earlier to jump the gun on anything yet. However there is some nice marks changes that I'm looking forward to see where there gonna go with marks. I wouldn't mind going back to Marks.

[malikith]

*smiles Its better now. The nerf is not nearly so bad it was yesterday. Doable. *smiles

[Lisaara]

*smiles Its better now. The nerf is not nearly so bad it was yesterday. Doable. *smiles

Told ya theres no reason to freak out yet.

Best to save flipping for something that goes Live.

[Ryai]

And incase no one else read the patch notes

Hunter (Forums / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
Survival Nerfs
The patch isn't finished. Our intent is to bring Survival DPS down to the level of some of the other dps specs while making Marks and BM more attractive in PvE. With pure DPS classes it is probably impossible to engineer a three-way tie on all encounters. However, we think we can make them close enough so that players can choose to play their favorite without feeling like they are a burden on the rest of the group.

For an overall approach, we made a few changes that will buff Survival, or even hunters in general. First, focus generation was lower as a result of a bug with haste buffs such as Hunting Party. We've fixed that bug, so focus generation will be higher now when that buff is present (presumably all the time for Survival). Second, we made Steady Shot scale with haste, which will let hunters get more attacks in overall and have more focus with which to do so. These changes would have been a net buff for Survival without additional nerfs to compensate.

[...] Bottom line is that Survival does too much damage right now on live. The damage needs to come down. We'll be working to make sure the final numbers take into account all the other various changes that are going in to the patch to ensure it remains a viable spec, ensure the other two specs are competitively viable as well, and in-range of what we expect the damage output of the class to be relative to others.

We're evaluating hunter DPS even now, and if it turns out the changes go too far we'll make adjustments. (Source)

Which I am now going to say, Kids you have it better than BM did during Wrath days. You wanna know why?

Exotics were nerfed: Blizz's excuse; we didn't want BM hunters forced to use only exotics.
Other hunters: Oh yes you need those nerfes!
Exotics nerfed into the ground so BM actually benefitted more from running with sigh, wolves and cats then saurs.

BM was nerfed over all: Blizz's excuse, oh you were to powerful, but you're making a good leveling specc!
Other hunters: Yes yes yes!
BM: reduced to utter uselessness for a majority of Wrath.


So don't freak the hell out until [almost] a whole hunter community rejoices in you being nerfed, then you are REALLY screwed.

[Lisaara]

Totally agreed Ryai....

Lets not forget the mockery we BMs had to endure.....

[Mindsprocket]

Honestly, I fail to see how the former state of talent trees has anything to do with the question of whether or not they are treated well now. Especially considering that since Vanilla every spec was the best at one point and every spec had a period when it was the worst. There's also a certain "us vs. them" attitude that I don't get. In the times of dual spec most people aren't just one kind of hunter anyway, so talking as if SV hunters are by definition a different entity than BM hunters doesn't make sense to me.

I'd very much appreciate it if the talent trees were balanced, but like others have said I'd like all specs to be equally good not equally bad. Which is why I don't like the idea that the currently best spec just gets shot down without improving the others. Besides, simply making SV the worst spec again (yes, *again*, it has been there before like the other two) doesn't really help to balance the talent trees. It just juggles the hirarchy around a bit (again).

But as has been said, it's early in the PTR and they're obviously just getting started with working the talents trees over, so I think it's too early to get freaked out by anything.

[Ryai]

Honestly, I fail to see how the former state of talent trees has anything to do with the question of whether or not they are treated well now.

I'm talking mostly as when BM was nerfed and people, mostly us who played BM exclusively and never saw reason to play any other specc [and now dual speccing is useless nearly if you play BM as there's not much for 'BM tanking' as it's nearly the exact same build as DPS and ffs I've gone in as BM tank build now and still dione reasonable dps in normals for cata dungeons.. >_<] and SV and MM and even other BM hunters were crying out and rejoicing over BM being nerfed because, hey as the blizz dev said for SV BM is doing to much damage, we aren't happy!

Nerfbat to extreme that was barely ever fixed during wrath.

There's also a certain "us vs. them" attitude that I don't get. In the times of dual spec most people aren't just one kind of hunter anyway, so talking as if SV hunters are by definition a different entity than BM hunters doesn't make sense to me.

It's their attitude. SV hunters or people who roll SV primarily aren't the same as people who roll BM primarily. Examples of this are people who roll SV and whine about pets who do crappy damage, or never use pets, or whine about why others aren't playing SV. MM hunters seem to be middle ground, not minding pets, but not all that loving about pets [note this is not exactly profiling but this is from experience of ALL of my runs from lv 15+ on my healers and with my latest runs on alts]. BM hunters seem to well care about pets as nine times out of ten they're the only ones with NAMED pets. Of course there are still BM assholes, but yeah.


Not really replying to the last as it'd just be repeating what I always said that SSDD is just happening again. Also tho, with my comparing it to Wrath treatment, it's the fact this is FAR DIFFERENT than what blizzard did for BM. Why? BM was nerfed to the ground HARD. SV is getting trimmings here and there and obviously it's not close to finished as, even you have said, some changes are reverted.

[Adam-Savage]

BM is better then it was but it's still far behind mark's and surv.

[Tulune]

SV is by far the most fluid spec when incorporated with focus. BM feels a little sloppy (haaate the new Kill Command) and I have yet to try the new MM.

I am just glad they toned down the SV nerf, it was a little too much.

[Cozzene]

BM feels a little sloppy (haaate the new Kill Command)

Y'know, I said that too and it caused confusion. I really want to be BM, but I'm just not good with it, it feels awkward for me.

I'm hoping MM rebounds, I love MM.