Wolves as pets

[erwil]

You're quite right. And trust me, although I admire many dog breeds, all of my dogs have been rescues from our local Pound. They have all been remarkable pets, very loving and never mean tempered. It makes me happy we rescued these wonderful animals from death. I would never get a dog from anywhere else.
With that said, I'd much rather a person be stupid and go buy a Tamaskan or a Husky or some other wolf-like dog becuase they "want a wolf for their very own" rather than to try and rear the real thing, or a hybrid, and get hurt because they weren't prepared.

So many people seem to get pets that end up getting abandoned lately, because they either don't know how to handle them, they grow too big or they didn't expect to spend as much money on them at first. And then there's of course the "cute" factor, they're no longer kits, but adult and disobedient family members that people don't seem to have time for. I'd rather see people get their pets from Pounds for this very reason, if they've got no previous experience and unsure how things will work out.

[Siliverin]

You're quite right. And trust me, although I admire many dog breeds, all of my dogs have been rescues from our local Pound. They have all been remarkable pets, very loving and never mean tempered. It makes me happy we rescued these wonderful animals from death. I would never get a dog from anywhere else.
With that said, I'd much rather a person be stupid and go buy a Tamaskan or a Husky or some other wolf-like dog becuase they "want a wolf for their very own" rather than to try and rear the real thing, or a hybrid, and get hurt because they weren't prepared.

So many people seem to get pets that end up getting abandoned lately, because they either don't know how to handle them, they grow too big or they didn't expect to spend as much money on them at first. And then there's of course the "cute" factor, they're no longer kits, but adult and disobedient family members that people don't seem to have time for. I'd rather see people get their pets from Pounds for this very reason, if they've got no previous experience and unsure how things will work out.

so sad, so true. I tihnk to which alot of people know, during the xmas holiday, you see more and more homeless pets running around becuase kids get them for xmas, or people are giving them away and the kid takes them home then either, they no longer want it and get bored with the pup/kitten, its not what they wanted, or parents say no and so they end up on the street if i could i would always take them in but no room, but when i get the our land set up, i plan on starting a rescue or something xD. all of my pets have been from pounds, parking lots ( aka someone in a parking lot giving them away) or they were part of a unplanned litter and needed a home.

[erwil]

so sad, so true. I tihnk to which alot of people know, during the xmas holiday, you see more and more homeless pets running around becuase kids get them for xmas, or people are giving them away and the kid takes them home then either, they no longer want it and get bored with the pup/kitten, its not what they wanted, or parents say no and so they end up on the street if i could i would always take them in but no room, but when i get the our land set up, i plan on starting a rescue or something xD. all of my pets have been from pounds, parking lots ( aka someone in a parking lot giving them away) or they were part of a unplanned litter and needed a home.

Yeah, Christmas in my opinion is the worst possible time to get a pet. It's not just the possibility it'll get abandoned, but it's also stressful time for the pet. New people, smells noises and lights.
All of my cats have been from unplanned litters, and I grew up on a farm, so there was never really room for a pure breed cat in the first place. Dogs were a completely different thing, since you could specialize in one or two types of hunting breed (and even then, we had quite a few mutts from unwanted litters from the neighbours. x) ).

[Siliverin]

so sad, so true. I tihnk to which alot of people know, during the xmas holiday, you see more and more homeless pets running around becuase kids get them for xmas, or people are giving them away and the kid takes them home then either, they no longer want it and get bored with the pup/kitten, its not what they wanted, or parents say no and so they end up on the street if i could i would always take them in but no room, but when i get the our land set up, i plan on starting a rescue or something xD. all of my pets have been from pounds, parking lots ( aka someone in a parking lot giving them away) or they were part of a unplanned litter and needed a home.

Yeah, Christmas in my opinion is the worst possible time to get a pet. It's not just the possibility it'll get abandoned, but it's also stressful time for the pet. New people, smells noises and lights.
All of my cats have been from unplanned litters, and I grew up on a farm, so there was never really room for a pure breed cat in the first place. Dogs were a completely different thing, since you could specialize in one or two types of hunting breed (and even then, we had quite a few mutts from unwanted litters from the neighbours. x) ).

yeah so true too. Sometime i feel pounds should adopt out during the holiday because of that reason, also i know a little before and after halloween, they dont adopt black cats out. i always feel so bad when i see homeless pets mostly youngins. ahh yeah, hehe yeah , on a farm its a bit different.

[Acherontia]

This is something near & dear to me as a topic; I've worked with both wolves and wolfdogs, and I very much love them both. The two main issues for me are that a. wolves have a lot of behaviors and habits that MOST dogs don't, at least not in one package, and b. most people don't know wtf they're doing.

I'm sure most of the people who frequent this site/forum are animal people, so they know most of what I'm about to say! But here goes >.>

Wolves are intelligent, as are wolfdogs (the term "hybrid" is actually incorrect, btw, as dog is a wolf subspecies in itself), so they can have VERY widely-ranging personalities.* Wolves & wolfdogs can be destructive, have high prey drive, are very reactive, tend to mark territory, and males in winter can have hormonally-elevated aggression that the average "owner" doesn't expect or know how to handle. They're escape artists that need tall fences with overhangs and dig wire, as well as a good open space to roam and plenty of mental stimulation. They can also be extremely shy or fearful, even with good handling, becoming fear-biters or simply unmanageable, requiring natural enclosures with minimal contact. You can easily get one or more of these in dogs, mind, but usually not as many or as intense as with a wolfdog.

I don't think malamutes are even remotely close to wolves in behavior, btw. They're generally friendly and I haven't found any of the admittedly few I've met to be anywhere NEAR as "sharp" as wolfdogs--which can react and change their mood in a split-second to what's happening around them, as necessary for survival in the wild.

That said, I've met (pure) wolves, mature adults, that are more friendly, confident, open and gentle than a great deal of the pure dogs I've met, so I think it's very much down to the individual situation. If there's someone who wants to raise an ambassador wolf, if there's a friendly abandoned wolfdog needing a home, I'm all for responsible ownership--IF the animal is treated & handled well, and the prospective owner is well-educated on the matter. ...And if they have the facilities to keep the animal if it becomes unhandleable!!

Keep in mind one last thing--there are a couple of breeds that are long-established as wolfdog breeds, but are more easily managed due to careful long-term breeding, sometimes for a working purpose. Czech wolfdogs are one of them, and probably the best example--the general rule is, the farther from "pure" wolf parentage you go, the more "tame" the animals become. So if there's someone out there who REALLY wants a wolfdog, I'd go for one of those, rather than seeking out a dog in a newspaper ad that may be pure wolf or none at all (the latter being the average sold "wolfdog"), sick, mistreated, etc. Otherwise, rescue groups are usually willing to lend a supportive hand to an adopter, giving as much background with the wolfdog as they can and helping out if there's trouble in the future.

* I knew a man who raced dogs; he had 6 or 7 racing huskies and one wolf-Shepherd cross that had been a rescue. The Shepherd cross was calm, confident, tame and affectionate, quiet and very gentle; the huskies were sharp, howled, and generally acted quite wild (meaning a lot of stuff I won't bore you with). The wolfer was most definitely the dog of the bunch. In other words, it also depends on the DOG content as much as the wolf, in a wolfdog, but since there's no predicting the results, you're still getting an unknown factor... Just saying, wide range, hard to generalize them!

[erwil]

I don't think malamutes are even remotely close to wolves in behavior, btw. They're generally friendly and I haven't found any of the admittedly few I've met to be anywhere NEAR as "sharp" as wolfdogs--which can react and change their mood in a split-second to what's happening around them, as necessary for survival in the wild.

I've never worked with wolves or wolf dogs, but I can agree what you're saying (the whole post, just quoting this bit to shorten it ). I would never compare malamutes to wolves or wolfdogs, I was hoping my post would make the op and everyone else to reconsider getting one. What I was trying to say earlier, is that there are dog breeds that are not really ideal choice for your first dog. What ever dog you're planning to get, people have to remember that they're not toys or there just to pump your ego.

When you're looking into getting a dog, one should go through the history of the breed and see if there's something new and exciting you could make a hobby out of with your dog later on. One of my biggest dreams is to someday lead a sledge dog team. I got a glimpse of it while I was training my dog in Finland, but, I live in UK now, so my chances are a bit.. yeah. x)

Your latter bit actually reminded me of a friend of mine, who bought a finnish spitz who was not supposed to "bark". The way it was advertised sounded good at first, but now that I look back at it, what a load of nonsense it was. xD

[Acherontia]

Ooh, I probably should have specified, I wasn't aiming the malamute bit at you or anyone who's had one--it was at--

I... actually had a close to a wolf as a pet, A malumute

I just read that and thought, I don't think they're anywhere near similar

I LOVE the idea of dogsledding in general, be it sledge or long-distance racing. I was at a kennel this summer where they do this during the winter--well, they're SUPPOSED to be sort of a tourist attraction, and though they're very nice folks, they were a bit remote and I think the guy wanted company more than guests. So I wound up helping them water the dogs etc, which was odd because he insulted me a couple times as if I were his employee But anyway, they had oh, 60-odd nice Alaskan huskies, and every one of them just seemed so cuddly I love the idea of having a team of dogs in the ice-cold (I LOVE SNOW!), with wind and the elements, just you and your dogs... But I also would probably feel that I couldn't give 'em enough individual attention that way, either. I'd love to do it, regardless, but I think this guy I visited had it right--it's a full-time job or nothing at all!!

[erwil]

Haha, aye. It's really hard work in the end, and I can't lie, I really didn't expect it to be as hard before I started. I remember very clearly the very first, extremely sweaty and tiring, training session I had with my dog on her second winter. I made her pull a sled with a car tier on it as weight. And I was not physically ready myself, and I was SO exhausted afterwards while my dog was like "What? That's it?! You got to be kidding me! Moar plz!"

I absolutely adore these dogs and I'd love to have a 3 dog sled team some day. But 60!? I have to agree with you. I don't think I could quite take it to that level at this point, or ever, either.

[Redith]

I'm going to throw this out there, if you want a very wolf-like pet, go for one of the many dog breed that look like them. The Tamaskan has been bred from regular dogs to look remarkably like a wolf while keeping dog temperment.

Never ever get a dog for its LOOKS.
If this is the first thing that goes into a person's mind when they're looking for a dog breed, they should seriously reconsider getting a dog at all.

Well...I kind of agree and disagree with you there. Theres alot that goes into a dogs "Looks" . I believe that a dogs look can be important, but it has to be right next to temperment. You have to be happy with the dog.

[MaximumOverdrive]

I would also say no to wolves at pet. I do know a wolf that someone got when he was a pup, but when he got older, he was too much for them to handle. He now lives at a Big Cat Sanctuary in Central Ohio (they have several cougars, ocelots, a couple of lynxes and a fox.) I'm sure he's an exception when it comes to wolves, cause he thinks he's just a big puppy dog and absolutely loves people, but like I said, he's an exception. As you can see in the pic, he's in an enclosure (in that pic, it was a smaller enclosure, but now they finally worked up enough money and got him a much bigger one.) But seriously, wolves are not pets.



Boy did he love attention tho...almost hard to think of him as a wolf.

[Acherontia]

Oh god, I remember a friend of mine got a red Siberian Husky once. Sweetest dog in the world but he was a proper husky--he'd wander off and never come back, carefree as all hell. And he NEVER SETTLED DOWN. We lived in an area with a very quiet one-mile loop road, so one day she leashed him to the side of the car (I was there to be sure it was safe, that he wouldn't try and dart underneath etc) and we ran him 3-4 miles at a fast trot. At the end it was as if we hadn't moved; he still was pacing and hyper as hell. She ended up having to rehome him. And that's just a "domestic" dog

[erwil]

Oh god, I remember a friend of mine got a red Siberian Husky once. Sweetest dog in the world but he was a proper husky--he'd wander off and never come back, carefree as all hell. And he NEVER SETTLED DOWN. We lived in an area with a very quiet one-mile loop road, so one day she leashed him to the side of the car (I was there to be sure it was safe, that he wouldn't try and dart underneath etc) and we ran him 3-4 miles at a fast trot. At the end it was as if we hadn't moved; he still was pacing and hyper as hell. She ended up having to rehome him. And that's just a "domestic" dog

The thing about huskies and malamutes that I've learned while working with them, is that you pretty much can't tire them by physical exercise. It's really damn difficult. What you can do, is brain exercise instead. Lots of "mind games", hiding treats, clicking training, sitting and lying down patiently (hard to start with XD ).

Also, they don't have the need to please humans like most other dog breeds do, so they WILL go after that rabbit or squirrel they see, even if you tell them not to.

[Tsiya]

So many people seem to get pets that end up getting abandoned lately, because they either don't know how to handle them, they grow too big or they didn't expect to spend as much money on them at first. And then there's of course the "cute" factor, they're no longer kits, but adult and disobedient family members that people don't seem to have time for. I'd rather see people get their pets from Pounds for this very reason, if they've got no previous experience and unsure how things will work out.

I'd love to get my next dog from rescue or the pound, and we've been looking since my Cane boy is going to be 11 years old Friday(average lifespan is 8 yrs). The only thing that worries me is issues and poor breeding can make a rescue hard to handle, especially considering how big Cane's get. I'm only 5'1" and my husband is disabled. My baby can go anywhere a dog is permitted and has perfect manners, but I know from personal experience not all Canes are that way. In fact my vet advised me to get a puppy as all her other Cane patients growl at her, and since Meekie is one of her favorite patients she wants my next dog to be as good.

On topic, when I was in high school we had 2 wolf hybrids. Half lab, 1/4 wolf 1/4 husky. The father was the wolf/husky, and he was amazing. But, you can't treat them like regular dogs. Not all the time, because as has been said, they are still partly wild, and dog will never totally override the wolf. If you are a natural alpha, and take the time to learn about them, and learn from them to adjust to their needs, you will have a wonderful pet.

Good luck with whatever you decide!

Addendum: Be sure you're prepared to take care of it for the rest of it's natural life, even if it's not the kind of pet you want. It'll be yours for possibly 15 years.

[Aylfric]

If anyone wants to get a little philosophical about it, I heard a podcast with an Australian philosopher who was living in the U.S. and ended up with a wolf as a pet. He wrote a book about it, The Philosopher and the Wolf. It was quite an interesting podcast.

"Philosophy professor Mark Rowlands had two loves: philosophy and Brenin, a wolf he would bring along to his university classes. But Brenin was more than just an exotic pet. Their relationship led Rowlands to deeply examine his work and life."

http://www.cbc.ca/ideas/episodes/2010/0 ... e-wolf-cd/

[Acherontia]

The thing that irritates me about that is that he wrote an entire book based around his experiences "living with a wolf" when the animal is CLEARLY a malamute, with maybe a TINY amount of wolf at the most.

It doesn't detract from his observations, mind, or philosophical musings, but it's entirely misleading for pet lovers and the like.





This quote from a reviewer supports what I mean, showing that such misrepresentation is really only bad in the end...

Having read a number of books on wolves, Rowlands' book challenged what I had come to believe: wolf-keeping should be left to the professionals; never allow a wolf off a leash in a city; wolf owners and their "pets" are tragedies waiting to happen, etc.

[Aylfric]

Huh, shows what I know. Disappointed.

[Acherontia]

Oh god, no, if HE didn't know what he had, his publishers, the reviewers... I'm annoyed that they let it go to print, and I'm hoping it doesn't have any ill effects... but if even ONE person reads that and decides to go out and get a wolf, because of his descriptions of living with a malamute, and the poor animal winds up homeless, or worse--it's just a stupid situation. Misrepresentation for profit, or pure ignorance, idk which.

As far as the actual book goes, it's quite possibly amazing--I don't know, because I haven't read it. But I assume his experiences are interesting and thought-provoking, even if he was wrong about their source

[Razzy]

We can barely trust dogs, much less wolves.

[Aylfric]

One book I *can* recommend, though it's out of print and you'd have to track it down, is "Secret Go The Wolves", by R.D. Lawrence. I'd forgotten about reading this book until after posting this and doing some online searching. He was a Canadian naturalist who stumbled across two wolf kits and raised them to adults, with the intention of releasing them to the wild, which was successful.

If you find that distasteful, he also ended up raising a beaver kit to a pet too. That was in "Paddy".

[Tessara]

All my life, I have adored wolves. They are by far, my absolute favorite animal and my home is decorated in wolf art and memorabilia. However, let me say right now that owning a wolf or a wolf-blooded dog is not for the unskilled. I made the error of taking in a wolfdog once and it was one of the worst expeiences of my life. Yes, while he was beautiful and everything I'd always wanted, he came with behaviors and traits that only a trained professional should be handling. Even with all my research and obedience training, certain 'wild instincts' are something a normal person cannot and should not deal with. Needless to say, I found a trained professional (and vet) who knew the breed and was able to give him a great home. It is certainly nothing I would EVER attempt again and I would reccomend anyone pondering owning such a creature to think long and hard on what you'd be getting yourself into. As stated above, there are many breeds of normal domesticated dogs that look like wolves. Just my two cents worth of personal experience.