BM in Raids

[Saturo]

Just discovered this. It's Elitist Jerks, so it's most likely true, and backed up by heavy theorycrafting. Anyhow, thought I'd put it up here. A lot of us are BM, and, tough I personally enjoy SV more, being able to bring Gondria into raids would be fun.
Raiding with Beast Mastery in 3.3 and beyond

[Chrizesu]

With some of the plans the developers have been hinting on, I wouldn't be surprised if bm is widely considered viable in cataclysm or maybe one of these upcoming patches before then.

[Sharilar]

Well, according to the latest numbers I read over there, after the FI change on the PTR, BM is even with SV in the spreadsheet. Once that news makes it around, then public opinion might be more accepting finally. (Though it is funny currently like was said in another thread to top the meters as BM and make everyone else go LOLWUT?)

[Tahlian]

I think that may be the reason - at least a little bit - why I persist as a beast master...that slight sense of rebellious satisfaction at doing well on the damage meter during a fight and knowing that it's something that's "not supposed to happen."

Maybe all us beast mastery hunters are just rebels at heart.

EDIT: After reading the pertinent bits of the EJ thread, I went to femaledwarf and played around with things...and showed nearly a 200 DPS jump with the 3.3.3 changes enabled. As I sat there blinking in amazement, I realized I had left the default serpent sting/steady shot rotation enabled and hadn't added in my other shots. So unless there's other changes coming down the pipe (which I certainly hope there are), we may indeed want to go back to a 2-shot rotation. This thought is less than pleasing...but if it gives me a boost, I guess I'll do it.

[Kalliope]

*groans quietly*

This is seriously making me want to drop my PvP spec for a while and play around with PvE BM....

I MISS MY DEVILSAUR, DAMMIT.

...

.......

BW works on breaking/preventing vile gas, right?



EDIT:

Err, wth?! I don't remember reading this:

Exotics [updated 2.4.2010]
Devilsaurs -- highest damage pet. New for 3.3! It's been reported that as of 3.3 the devilsaur hitbox issues have been resolved, the model no longer becomes huge with stacks of Monstrous Bite, and it no longer stomps when walking; with the resolution of these issues, the devilsaur becomes a very attractive pet for raiding.

First off, BOOOOOOOOOOO for smaller dinos. Secondly, WHY NO MORE STOMPY?! But OMGTHEYFIXEDTHEHITBOX?! I may yet bring Theseus to ICC...

[Saturo]

Err, wth?! I don't remember reading this:

Exotics [updated 2.4.2010]
Devilsaurs -- highest damage pet. New for 3.3! It's been reported that as of 3.3 the devilsaur hitbox issues have been resolved, the model no longer becomes huge with stacks of Monstrous Bite, and it no longer stomps when walking; with the resolution of these issues, the devilsaur becomes a very attractive pet for raiding.

First off, BOOOOOOOOOOO for smaller dinos. Secondly, WHY NO MORE STOMPY?! But OMGTHEYFIXEDTHEHITBOX?! I may yet bring Theseus to ICC...

First off, BW breaks anything that prevents you from moving, including Vile Gas.
And yes, Dinos no longer Stomp, but they still grow with Monstrous Bite. I think it's just the hitbox.
Now they just need to bring Tauren hitboxes down in size too. Right now Belves and Gnomes are probably the best raiders there is for fights that involve a lot of AoE.

[Vephriel]

Aww, I'll be very sad if they changed Monstrous Bite and Devilsaurs don't grow from it anymore.

[Tahlian]

A lot of raid leaders would ban devilsaurs from raids precisely because of the STOMP STOMP STOMP noise when they were first introduced as tamable pets. I would suspect that Blizz might have had an idea exactly how good they'd be for raiding eventually and didn't want that sound effect to be the reason devilsaurs wouldn't be used. That, or given the devilsaurs' ability to sneak up on people from seemingly nowhere in Un'goro Crater, they decided to teach them all to muffle their footfalls once tamed to continue with that proud "ninjasaur" heritage.

I actually think they took that sound effect off them something like two or three content patches ago, though, so that's not exactly a recent development. I was kind of surprised that they removed the sound effect from the devilsaurs...but left it on the core hounds.

[Kalliope]

I actually think they took that sound effect off them something like two or three content patches ago, though, so that's not exactly a recent development. I was kind of surprised that they removed the sound effect from the devilsaurs...but left it on the core hounds.

AHA! That's why I didn't notice!!! I mean, aside from my baby being stuck in the stable....corehounds still did it, so I assumed devilsaurs still did too.

Okay, so I'm a little out of the BM loop (as I figured when I saw the date on that note in the EJ thread), but man....the hitbox thing was originally why I stabled Theseus back in Naxx. Maybe I will do it...

[Rhyela]

Maybe I will do it...

*Whispers in your ear* Dooo eeeet! /wink wink

[Kalliope]

Maybe I will do it...

*Whispers in your ear* Dooo eeeet! /wink wink

I did it! I haven't been PvPing much this season on Kalliope anyway. So I have my baby dino back! *coos* In the midst of setting up my macros and bars now....

EDIT: Okay, I've got my stuff set up and have been doing some tests. I didn't spec for invigoration, which at least on targeting dummies is a mistake. I know I'm not gemmed properly (all agi instead of all ap), but that's because I'm still sticking with marks as my primary spec.

With all that in mind, I'm noticing about a 700 dps loss. I was honestly expecting more than that, closer to 1000. Maybe it would be, in a real fight. This sound about right?

[Tahlian]

I wouldn't say you're gemmed "wrong," per se. The difference in DPS between AP and Agi is really minimal, so I wouldn't worry about it overmuch. I think the overall difference in DPS may become more pronounced when raid buffs are taken into account...but on the flip side of that coin, I seem to do better with 25-man buffs than I do 10-man.

So I guess the best answer is to play around with a spreadsheet and see what will work best for you!

And welcome back to the Dark Side of the Force.

[Gimlion]

but on the flip side of that coin, I seem to do better with 25-man buffs than I do 10-man.

Well EVERYONE should do 'better' with 25 man buffs, there's gunna be 15 more people who can potentially buff you. What you should be checking is if your 'Me:mm/sv' ratio is any better in 25 than in 10. If you're closer to them in 25-mans, then the gap is closing with more buffs, and vice-versa.

[Kalliope]

I wouldn't say you're gemmed "wrong," per se. The difference in DPS between AP and Agi is really minimal, so I wouldn't worry about it overmuch.

Yep! I'm not, was just saying that I expected to suffer slight consequences for it. xD

I think the overall difference in DPS may become more pronounced when raid buffs are taken into account...but on the flip side of that coin, I seem to do better with 25-man buffs than I do 10-man.

Who doesn't??? But yeah, the same holds true for me as marks as well. I have mana issues in 10m on occasion (like the week before last when our ret pally was missing), but 25 is no trouble at all.

So I guess the best answer is to play around with a spreadsheet and see what will work best for you!

And welcome back to the Dark Side of the Force.

Hee, thanks! xD I really only dabble in the Dark Side on occasion; I'm marks at heart, hence the lack of gem swapping. But I do love my dino, which keeps me visiting.

*grumps at Blizz to give us a third spec, even if it had to be paid for on swaps*

[Kalliope]

AHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Did my first raid as PvE BM Kalli since Naxx. Given, it was just vault, but still. Was second on dmg after my bf on Toravon, but didn't turn on recount due to fear of lag.

I did, however, turn it on for Koralon!

Ignore my horrific UI, which I only threw together at the last minute.





BAM! #2 damage done, #1 dps. Was right up there with one of my guild's other marks hunters, and our dps is comparable in our ICC 25s where we're both marks, so I was pleased. Had no mana issues at all, which was to be expected on such short fights.

[VelkynKarma]

Oooh, neat, devilsaurs will be even more viable?

I don't raid, but I do run instances with my white devilsaur. I haven't had any complaints about size or anything so far, but it'll be cool to see a few of those potential problems become nonexistent.

~VelkynKarma

[Kalliope]

Well, they already removed the two big offenders (stomping and monstrous bite growth), so I didn't hear a word about Theseus either way. There was some mild surprise that I was BM, but only from a couple of guildies.

BM is at least viable on short, bursty fights. And this is BEFORE the buff to FI!

I really wish I'd turned on recount for Toravon; I was shocked to be #2 on damage since I had to switch to orbs.

[Saturo]

Actually, they still grow with MB. I tested it in Nexus with Stereo. Their hitboxes, however, stayed the same size. And with the removal of stomping...

New raid pets!

[Kalliope]

Actually, they still grow with MB. I tested it in Nexus with Stereo. Their hitboxes, however, stayed the same size. And with the removal of stomping...

New raid pets!

Oh good! I didn't get a chance to notice, since I've been burying myself in my rotations, trying not to screw them up. xD *squees over smaller hitbox, which she did kind of notice*

The question for me at this moment is....do I haul out the BMness for the first wing of ICC now or do I wait for the minipatch?

[Suicune]

Actually, they still grow with MB. I tested it in Nexus with Stereo. Their hitboxes, however, stayed the same size. And with the removal of stomping...

New raid pets!

Oh good! I didn't get a chance to notice, since I've been burying myself in my rotations, trying not to screw them up. xD *squees over smaller hitbox, which she did kind of notice*

The question for me at this moment is....do I haul out the BMness for the first wing of ICC now or do I wait for the minipatch?

I say try it out- I have run as BM for every boss we downed in ICC10 so far, I start out as Surv and get bored and swap to BM so I can change pets every boss lol. Depends how antsy I am whether I swap to BM or not. Sometimes I miss my shinies so I drag them out.