Is Cunning DPS bad, or plagued by old stigma?

[Cialbi]

I'm curious as to what people's impressions are on Cunning DPS. Back in WotLK, raiding with a Cunning pet was heavily frowned upon, and for good reason. However, with the new Wild Hunt having some nice synergy with Owl's Focus, and Roar of Recovery being far more valuable as a Focus user than a Mana user, Cunning DPS has certainly improved. But, I have yet to see any concrete numbers pointing one way or the other on the viability of Cunning DPS, the viability of using Cunning pets is practically an opinion now.

[Ellandrea]

I had this same question today, so I took my two favorite pets and headed over to the training dummies.

After 10 minutes each of SV spec, just using my pet and CS,CS,CS,ES rotation, I found that my Dragonhawk, (His name is Moonreaver) pulled higher overall DPS than my Cat. (His name is Scrat)

Now, this may because of the Dragonhawk special ability, but I was very surprised by the results.

[Skeeter]

yea according to EJ Cunning is better DPS if you are Surv specced, and Ferocity is higher DPS if your BM

[Lisaara]

yea according to EJ Cunning is better DPS if you are Surv specced, and Ferocity is higher DPS if your BM

Mind you, EJ and such sites should be taken with a grain of salt. I've done just fine and been top on the charts as a BM with Tenacity and Cunning pets.

[Shade]

I don't like to use cunning pets overall, I find myself pulling aggro too much with them compared to my wolves and cats. But that is on my lowbie without a misdirection. I've not experimented with them too much lately on my bigger hunter.

[Kalliope]

I had thought from personal experience that I was doing better with ferocity pets, even though the differences between them are small now, up until last night's raid. I topped the meters again, thanks to some gear juggling. It had nothing to do with my pet type at all.

They're about even. Bring who you want/need to.

[Lisaara]

I had thought from personal experience that I was doing better with ferocity pets, even though the differences between them are small now, up until last night's raid. I topped the meters again, thanks to some gear juggling. It had nothing to do with my pet type at all.

They're about even. Bring who you want/need to.

You said it best.

[Aquillian]

EJ's "best" specs mean that, when played perfectly, with every buff available and 0 latency, X is mathematically going to be higher DPS than Y. It's a very great guide to what each spec is capable of, but says nothing of what you, as a player, or others you group with will be able to do, given preferences, latency, etc. For most people, the three specs will likely be pretty equal, and so will ferocity/cunning pets -- so choose what you like :D

Technically, though, yes cunning has higher DPS potential for SV than ferocity, and vice versa for BM (and I think MM?). I notice very little difference myself.

[Unggoy]

Through current experience, Cunning sims higher currently for SV than ferocity. I haven't actually put it to the test by any means, but i'll stick with what the math is currently telling me.

However, i'm sure the difference is minute (~100 or so DPS) at best, and you can probably use whatever you feel like using.

[Gimlion]

Also note that with the buffs that are available by the Cunning tree (Like the Magic one, that's only available in said tree... In two separate families...) that even with a slight difference in DPS, a lot of them are well worth the buffs they bring.

[Cialbi]

Also note that with the buffs that are available by the Cunning tree (Like the Magic one, that's only available in said tree... In two separate families...) that even with a slight difference in DPS, a lot of them are well worth the buffs they bring.

I'm well aware of this. However, no hunter pets have a DPS-increasing buff or debuff that another class cannot provide. For instance, a wind serpent or dragonhawk would be redundant if your raid had an assassination rogue, unholy death knight, warlock, or balance druid. It's certainly feasible to have a raid where no pet buffs or debuffs are needed, for that matter. Hence, in such a situation, the best choice of pet would be determined by talent tree.

[Zangor]

in my opinion any pet even a tenacity can do decent damage in a raid enviroment as an example every tree has the alent spiked collar that increases damage and im food to feed your petalso pretty sure they all can put points into increasing their attack speed. the only differenc iv noted is that enacity pets can restore health and can replenesh their happiness by using growl and taking damage. cuning pets can eat corpses which is nice if you dont like buying food to feed your pet they also get several abilities designed to increase the hunters survivability

[Rhyela]

Is it just me, or is Wolverine Bite pretty pathetic, though? I mean, I'm half-tempted to just turn it off and save the focus for Bite/Claw/Smack instead. Or does Wolverine Bite cost focus? Hmm...now I forget.

[Unggoy]

Is it just me, or is Wolverine Bite pretty pathetic, though? I mean, I'm half-tempted to just turn it off and save the focus for Bite/Claw/Smack instead. Or does Wolverine Bite cost focus? Hmm...now I forget.

It's free. Pathetic, but free. lol

[Cialbi]

Is it just me, or is Wolverine Bite pretty pathetic, though? I mean, I'm half-tempted to just turn it off and save the focus for Bite/Claw/Smack instead. Or does Wolverine Bite cost focus? Hmm...now I forget.

It's free. Pathetic, but free. lol

Yep. It's more of a bonus your pet can get for critical strikes. With the new cooldown on basic attacks, there's no reason to take Wolverine Bite off autocast.

[Acherontia]

Interesting question, as there's a similar discussion on the EU Hunter forums atm.

Actually the maths point towards cunning pets doing more dps than ferocity. All simulators will show cunning pets with higher dps as far as I'm aware.

It's combined. Individually the hunter himself will do more damage with a ferocity than a cunning pet, but the cunning pet itself will do more damage than the ferocity pet. When you combine them Call of the Wild does not make up for the difference in dps between a cunning pet and a ferocity pet.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic ... 200?page=1

I don't know if it's true, as I'm not a mathhead and don't use spreadsheets myself; I'm not sure if they mean certain specs or what. Maybe someone else can confirm/deny?

[Wark]

Pretty sure the line I read when I was perusing EJ a month back was "they're so close it doesn't matter, bring what gives the best buff or you like." My shot in the dark is that bringing a pet with the "right" buff (ie useful, not-redundant-for-the-group) is more of a DPS impact than whether it's Cunning or Ferocity at this point, though I absolutely do not have any numbers, at all. (Which is of course blown out of the water, numbers-wise, by "do you have any idea what you're doing" but I digress.)

Personally even as BM I'm very fond of Cunning pets just because they don't have Focus problems like my Ferocity pets do. That, and I hate cooldowns. And Feeding Frenzy gives me the big Kill Command numbers! >_>

That's my extremely unscientific take on it, anyways.

[Ellandrea]

This means Runty can tag along to raids!



w00t!

/hug Runty