What would people say to... (BM Exotic Redesign)

[Acherontia]

What would you all say if, tomorrow, this was in the patchnotes?

The tag "exotic" has been removed from some pets called Exotic.

Instead, Beast Mastery hunters may now visit a hunter trainer to add a second buff of their choice to each of their pets, previously only available to Exotic pets:

* Prayer of Fortitude equivalent
* Blessing of Kings equivalent
* Spirit Mend equivalent
* Bloodlust equivalent
* AoE damage
* Mortal Strike effect

In other words, a BM hunter could run with a Spirit Mend wolf, a BoK raptor, or an MS Scorpid. A NON-BM hunter could use a Spirit Beast that still has Roar of Courage but no Spirit Mend, etc.

Now, this is just a casual idea, so please don't let the discussion get too heated. I know that in the past, topics about Exotics being made available to all got hot. But the reasoning behind the post is this: I'm just curious about what people feel the pros and cons of this would be.

For me,

The Cons:

* It would make the Exotic pets less of a commodity/rarity
* It would make rare Exotics, such as spirit beasts, *potentially* harder to get due to *possibly* increased competition (although it's quite possible that many non-BM hunters have BM offspecs)
* In PvP it'd be harder to get a quick idea of an enemy hunter's spec & abilities

The Pros:

* BM hunters wouldn't be "locked" into only using Exotic pets
* BM hunters would have some customization of pets, which I think is a pretty neat idea
* All hunters would have all "pet content" available to them, meaning that hard work on exotics isn't wasted, and that all specs of hunters aren't "locked out" of using a pet they may love the looks of

Your thoughts?

[TygerDarkstorm]

I think it's an interesting idea, however, I don't know if Blizzard's aging game engine would be able to support the coding needed to actually be able to customize pets in such a way. More customization is always a good thing, but I would fear that this could come at a potential cost (incredibly buggy, combination of some buffs being too OP, etc).

These are just my initial thoughts on the subject.

[Lisaara]

Interesting idea but I'm gonna have to say absolutely not. It would never fly with Blizzard and it complicates pets all over again. Let's not go back to Vanilla or BC.

[TygerDarkstorm]

I would settle if they would drop Intimidation as the BM signature you pick up when you hit level 10 and replace it with Beast Mastery (and make Intimidation baseline or put it as the talent where Beast Mastery is currently). This would give growing beast masters some of their 'cooler' looking pet options right away.

However, I understand that exotics at such low levels has risks, especially since they get two specials. My solution, with the main concern being core hounds' ancient hysteria, is to keep exotics from learning their second special until around the same time shamans would learn bloodlust/heroism.

A second option is for exotics to be learned at the lower levels and keep all of their specials upon taming, but raise the level of some of them like the Kurken that might provide the buff at far too low of a level.

Those are some ideas I've seen tossed around on the boards as well as bounced around with my boyfriend; ideas that should work within Blizzard's existing coding and game engine.

[Lisaara]

I would settle if they would drop Intimidation as the BM signature you pick up when you hit level 10 and replace it with Beast Mastery (and make Intimidation baseline or put it as the talent where Beast Mastery is currently). This would give growing beast masters some of their 'cooler' looking pet options right away.

However, I understand that exotics at such low levels has risks, especially since they get two specials. My solution, with the main concern being core hounds' ancient hysteria, is to keep exotics from learning their second special until around the same time shamans would learn bloodlust/heroism.

A second option is for exotics to be learned at the lower levels and keep all of their specials upon taming, but raise the level of some of them like the Kurken that might provide the buff at far too low of a level.

Those are some ideas I've seen tossed around on the boards as well as bounced around with my boyfriend; ideas that should work within Blizzard's existing coding and game engine.

Could work but I'd not say level 10. I'd say let it be like lvl 40 or 50.

[TygerDarkstorm]

I personally quit leveling my alt hunters as BM because I find that the damage is lacking compared to leveling as SV. If we had access to exotics at lower levels I might level as BM just because at least I'd be able to get a cool looking pet as a trade off for not performing as well.

Of course, these are my experiences between leveling Yzma (my SV hunter) and leveling Roxíe (my RP BM hunter). I'm finding that I'm killing things faster as SV, but that could also be the difference between Yzma having the BoA shoulders and chest piece (but not so updated quest gear) and Roxíe going purely off quest gear.

[Acherontia]

See, I don't think it would be too complex, personally--a simple, secondary option from the Pet Trainer would suffice. Something like this--excuse the ugliness:

A simple menu with each of the abilities and, on mouseover, a tooltip, with a Confirm/Cancel at the bottom would be easy enough to manage.

Lastly, on the pet itself, on the pet's Character page:

In fact--this is Blizz's game, and it'd be up to them to decide if it's too complex or not. Why not give opinions on the merits/faults of the idea itself, rather than how complex it is?

[TygerDarkstorm]

To quote myself:

More customization is always a good thing, but I would fear that this could come at a potential cost (incredibly buggy, combination of some buffs being too OP, etc).

These are just my initial thoughts on the subject.

This is just the first thing that comes to mind; a combination of some of the buff/debuff combinations coming off as too OP.

[Rikaku]

The Pros:
* BM hunters wouldn't be "locked" into only using Exotic pets
* BM hunters would have some customization of pets, which I think is a pretty neat idea
* All hunters would have all "pet content" available to them, meaning that hard work on exotics isn't wasted, and that all specs of hunters aren't "locked out" of using a pet they may love the looks of

Your thoughts?

I know it's not popular but I'm gonna say I really would not like the changes if that were implemented. I'll be honest (Poliet and honest <3) I don't think MM and SV should get all the pet options. I mean I know a lot of people think it would be cool, but I think taming beasts that would otherwise ignore the Hunter if they weren't "master of beasts" should belong strictly to Beastmastery Hunters. I think especially in the present state of Hunters. Really, I think Hunter's are in a great state and don't really need to have such an overhaul to the pet system.

Also I don't agree with the "locked into" Exotics part. BM aren't locked into using exotics strictly. In a raid setting, if there's a buff you need to cover, most of the non-exotic pets cover the majority of "raid buffs" with the exeception of Shale spider, heroism, and healing. And even if you needed to bring a "furious howl" buff, you don't have to bring a devilsaur; the devilsaur's other ability only lowers the amount of healing received on the enemy so in most raid fights, that mechanic is rather moot.

Long story short, basically you don't *have* to bring any exotic as a BM. Just because you're BM doesn't mean you can't bring a cat instead of a SB. Do you lose a heal? Yes. Will it lead to you getting kicked from a raid/dungeon? No (unless you have a crazy party of some sort O_o).


However, what would be cool is selecting our pets' talent specs. IE: Train your wolf to be a "tenacity" wolf. Seriously, that would rock (and I think it'd rock for all specs of Hunters) but that's another topic for another time.

The exotic skill is a really neat idea though, the pet ability especially, but something I would rather

[Lisaara]

Well you asked for opinions. Expect to receive them whether you agree with them or not. If someone says its complex, that is their opinion and are allowed to voice it.

Thanks Rikaku. :3 You voiced it best.

[Acherontia]

I meant as far as turning it down as something "too complex" for Blizz to implement, Taluwen. If you don't work there, you don't know that What I meant as far as opinions is what Rikaku is saying--the opinion that it would cheapen the BM talent and so forth (pardon the extremely succinct summary), which is perfectly valid.

And yeah, Rikaku, I definitely think that you aren't locked into a specific pet in PvE--I was thinking more in PvP.

Ex. if a hunter prefers a spider to a Silithid, they kind of HAVE to take the Silithid anyway for serious arena, unless of course they're with a priest--the same idea with Spirit Beast vs Cat, etc. In PvE it of course isn't such a big deal. I think it would be pretty cool to be able to bring a pet with a Disarm and a BoK into a battleground, or a wolf with Crit + Heal--but as TygerDarkstorm says, it could also lead to OP combos. Off the top of my head, I think Roar of Courage + BoK, or 5% Crit + Fortitude, might come across as too OP to some!

[Lisaara]

I meant as far as turning it down as something "too complex" for Blizz to implement, Taluwen. If you don't work there, you don't know that What I meant as far as opinions is what Rikaku is saying--the opinion that it would cheapen the BM talent and so forth (pardon the extremely succinct summary), which is perfectly valid.

And yeah, Rikaku, I definitely think that you aren't locked into a specific pet in PvE--I was thinking more in PvE.

Ex. if a hunter prefers a spider to a Silithid, they kind of HAVE to take the Silithid anyway for serious arena, unless of course they're with a priest--the same idea with Spirit Beast vs Cat, etc. In PvE it of course isn't such a big deal. I think it would be pretty cool to be able to bring a pet with a Disarm and a BoK into a battleground, or a wolf with Crit + Heal--but as TygerDarkstorm says, it could also lead to OP combos. Off the top of my head, I think Roar of Courage + BoK, or 5% Crit + Fortitude, might come across as too OP to some!

I wasn't saying Blizz said it was too complex. MY opinion was I viewed it as too complex, in addition to the rest of the opinion, which basically was everything Rikaku said cause I suck at wording things. I was also saying it's highly doubtful Blizz would implement something like this.

also I think you meant pvp. But one think you gotta understand is pvp has to equal pve. Throwing off the balance we already have would cause a lot of QQ and a lot of chaos. I'd rather avoid hunter nerfs....especially BM....

[Acherontia]

Yeah, I meant PvP--edited. It's late

I do both PvE and PvP, so I certainly know that they have to be balanced. My point wasn't that it wouldn't be OP--it is possible that some combos would be--it was that I'd meant hunters were "locked into" certain pets for PvP, not PvE.

[Lisaara]

Yeah, I meant PvP--edited. It's late

I do both PvE and PvP, so I certainly know that they have to be balanced. My point wasn't that it wouldn't be OP--it is possible that some combos would be--it was that I'd meant hunters were "locked into" certain pets for PvP, not PvE.

I use any pet for PvP. I dont just use cunning. My Madexx is beast and so is my Loque. So I don't see how anyones 'locked' when you can take whatever you want. Matter of working it to your advantage.

[TygerDarkstorm]

I personally don't think you *have* to bring an exotic for serious PvP unless you and your partner are hardcore min/maxing.
For the average PvPer, I'm pretty sure the way pets are right now is just fine.

[Ziarre]

My reason for saying no would have to be more of a lore-ish reason. Exotics are beasts that most hunters cannot tame because they're on the fringes of what one might consider a tamable beast. Beast Mastery hunters go above and beyond what most hunters settle for in beast taming, their training enabling them to tame even those 'exotic' beasts.

*Disclaimer: I am not implying in any way, shape, or form that BM is better, this is just my interpretation of the 'IC' reasoning.

[Lisaara]

My reason for saying no would have to be more of a lore-ish reason. Exotics are beasts that most hunters cannot tame because they're on the fringes of what one might consider a tamable beast. Beast Mastery hunters go above and beyond what most hunters settle for in beast taming, their training enabling them to tame even those 'exotic' beasts.

*Disclaimer: I am not implying in any way, shape, or form that BM is better, this is just my interpretation of the 'IC' reasoning.

Thats actually a wonderful point. I never thought to think it like that.

[Acherontia]

Yes, that's what I thought would be the first thing on the table, actually.

I definitely DO think you need to bring certain pets to serious arena, though. If you're a hunter with a hpala partner and you bring a spider rather than a silithid--to quote my previous example--or a SB rather than a cat, you'll probably lose a few that you could have won otherwise.

(edit--regarding that "extra mile" BM goes, for the record I still want a pet drake >.>)

[Pent]

All I am going to say that other "suggestions" would be implemented before this would.

This has too many variables and would be harder to get off the ground than... let's say... giving hunters less downtime in their everyday routines.

But who knows, it is a great idea, and the only real problem might stem from hunters ONLY choosing certain skills based on what is the best build for whichever pet they had.

[Comett]

I love the idea. < 3 Though I wouldn't be heartbroken if it wasn't implemented hehe.

Sure, I don't NEED to use a Spirit Beast when I roll BM, but what's the point of using my cat as BM when I can use my cat as SV or MM and do better damage? The only reason I swap to BM is to use the shiny pets. I guess it isn't like this with anyone but it's not often that I feel like using the spec without the shiny pet to go with it.

I personally feel that - lore wise - exotic, "beast mastery" esque taming could go two ways. We currently have a "this pet is harder to care for/requires a deeper level of understanding therefore it is exotic" set up. I personally prefer the idea of, "beast mastery hunter is able to coax/train/uncover even the deepest abilities or instincts of their pet", as in, their "exotic ability", which all pets have, but not all are able to express without that further level of partnership in the pet/hunter relationship.

I personally don't think the idea is too complex at all. ^^ I think hunters have been dumbed down to the extent that they have very little unique hunter-esque lore and experiences left... but that's a different argument hehe. I realise that Blizz is trying to make all classes, their difficulty and their achievablility the same, but I don't think it's an entirely bad thing to... have that little bit extra (every class essentially "can" have that extra spark, and many of them "did" but it was removed). And at the end of the day, we already have pet talent trees... heck, easy way to deal with it? BM pet talent trees can have a final tier in which you are only capable of selecting one option, and that option is their exotic ability. Easy. Done.