What would people say to... (BM Exotic Redesign)

[TygerDarkstorm]

The idea itself isn't overly complex, Comett.
The complexity would be whether Blizzard thinks their aging game engine could handle the extra coding that would have to go into this. Also, this would have to account for hundreds (maybe even thousands) of different combinations for pets that could potentially put stress on the game.

On a different note, I have a feeling that if hunters gained such a customization that warlocks would be whining in the footsteps of this and wanting to pick and choose abilities for their demons. When it comes to pets, they're already pretty jealous of us hunters as it is.

[Ellaran]

-Take the "Tame Exotics" from the Beast Mastery talent and make it the BM spec bonus
-Leave the 4 extra skill points in Beast Mastery, and add unlocking the Exotic Beast Special Ability to it
-Replace Crouching Tiger, Hidden Chimaera with Intimidate

And with that, the world is good again.

[TygerDarkstorm]

-Take the "Tame Exotics" from the Beast Mastery talent and make it the BM spec bonus
-Leave the 4 extra skill points in Beast Mastery, and add unlocking the Exotic Beast Special Ability to it
-Replace Crouching Tiger, Hidden Chimaera with Intimidate

And with that, the world is good again.

I like that idea.

[Acherontia]

I'd imagine that the combinations would just be like specs--an additional learned talent. I don't think you'd need to pre-program all of the combinations.

I'd hope.

[TygerDarkstorm]

I imagine that only the exotic pets are programmed with the secondary special abilities. I think that they'd have to go through and make each and every single pet capable of having a secondary ability, not to mention, make every single tamable mob out there capable of learning any secondary the hunter chooses to give them. Seems like a lot of work to me, but perhaps it's not as complicated as I think. I wonder if Noah can give us an idea about it?

[Comett]

The idea itself isn't overly complex, Comett.
The complexity would be whether Blizzard thinks their aging game engine could handle the extra coding that would have to go into this. Also, this would have to account for hundreds (maybe even thousands) of different combinations for pets that could potentially put stress on the game.

On a different note, I have a feeling that if hunters gained such a customization that warlocks would be whining in the footsteps of this and wanting to pick and choose abilities for their demons. When it comes to pets, they're already pretty jealous of us hunters as it is.

Possibly. I'm not overly fond, myself, of arguments in relation to coding skill or ability of servers, etc... things that could only ever definitively be answered by Blizzard. It happens a lot on sim forums where people suggest stuff and another round of people go "it's probably too hard to code" or "the site servers couldn't handle it" when in perfect honesty the only person who can say that is the owner. For that reason I always tend to discount arguments based on whether or not Blizzard is able to do something (whether that be implement it currently, upgrade servers, etc etc). Which was why I didn't directly comment on it.

Even so, I don't see how it would be that difficult to include We already have talent trees, what's an extra tier? /rhetorical

[Comett]

Wow, excuse the smiley spam. I use them subconsciously when I'm trying to be friendly. I just, like, flooded everyone with a post with more smiley than word. Argh.

[TygerDarkstorm]

The pet special abilities aren't talent trees though, they're spells. Either way it still requires coding. And to be quite frank, after the overhaul Blizzard already did on pets for this expansion, I highly doubt they're looking to redo pets yet again.

[Comett]

No, but essentially what is the difference between Wolverine Bite and Monstrous Bite? Different mechanic sure, but both of them are a move that does something to the target. Blizz could essentially copy the framework from similar talents already in place. I can't imagine it would be... hard, if they decided it was a good option.

And no, but it's all hypothetical, isn't it? ^^

[TygerDarkstorm]

Well, none of us can say anything about difficulty; only Blizzard can as pointed out earlier. Like I said, I'm curious to know if Noah can tell us anything.

And as I said in my above post: Blizzard already made a HUGE overhaul on pets for this expansion (which is still pretty new, by the way). I think they'd prefer we enjoy what they gave us before drastically changing things yet again.
For the average player, pets are fine as they are, and that's really who Blizzard caters to as they're the majority player base. While this change would be cool, nobody says you HAVE to bring an exotic pet for PvP or PvE except you and how you choose to play.

[Rikaku]

And yeah, Rikaku, I definitely think that you aren't locked into a specific pet in PvE--I was thinking more in PvP.

Ex. if a hunter prefers a spider to a Silithid, they kind of HAVE to take the Silithid anyway for serious arena, unless of course they're with a priest--the same idea with Spirit Beast vs Cat, etc. In PvE it of course isn't such a big deal. I think it would be pretty cool to be able to bring a pet with a Disarm and a BoK into a battleground, or a wolf with Crit + Heal--but as TygerDarkstorm says, it could also lead to OP combos. Off the top of my head, I think Roar of Courage + BoK, or 5% Crit + Fortitude, might come across as too OP to some!

Ah that makes more sense about the locked in thing. I... don't PvP, so I wouldn't know anything about it. I do PvP, but nothing to the point of hardcore min/max PvP, mines the more "Oh hey I'm a bored PvE player, let's que for a BG!" type. So yeah, the PvP part went right over my head XD

(edit--regarding that "extra mile" BM goes, for the record I still want a pet drake >.>)

/SIGNED IN JOHN HANCOCK STYLE

Or hippogryphs/gryphons... <_< And where's my Zhevra?

[Cozzene]

Funny this thread popped up. I've never liked exotic-only pets. I felt that giving BM the ability to tame extra pets was a gimmick to make people use the spec. ...And I still do, even though the BM dps has MUCH improved, much to my happiness. But I don't want to have to play BM to use certain pets. "But it's a perk!" is really more like "But it's a gimmick!"

To better tidy up your idea; give ALL pets set secondary abilities; kings, fort, heal, etc. But the only way to access them is to be BM. Wanna play with your Skoll as MM? Sure! But he can't use his heal. Gonna use your Jadefang to tank that elite while you pop you Lock n Load on it? Go ahead, but no Kings for you.

Beast Mastery
You master the art of Beast training, teaching your pet an additional ability and increasing your total amount of Pet Skill Points by 4.

[Lisaara]

Funny this thread popped up. I've never liked exotic-only pets. I felt that giving BM the ability to tame extra pets was a gimmick to make people use the spec. ...And I still do, even though the BM dps has MUCH improved, much to my happiness. But I don't want to have to play BM to use certain pets. "But it's a perk!" is really more like "But it's a gimmick!"

To better tidy up your idea; give ALL pets set secondary abilities; kings, fort, heal, etc. But the only way to access them is to be BM. Wanna play with your Skoll as MM? Sure! But he can't use his heal. Gonna use your Jadefang to tank that elite while you pop you Lock n Load on it? Go ahead, but no Kings for you.

Beast Mastery
You master the art of Beast training, teaching your pet an additional ability and increasing your total amount of Pet Skill Points by 4.

Not to sound mean but....if we go by what your saying, then ALL classes with exclusive things to their spec would have a 'Gimmick'. If everyone gets to use exotics, then we should all have Chimaera and Aimed Shot.

Sorry but....that will never work. Would cause such an imbalance, you may as well not have the BM spec at all.

[Amayah]

I think that sounds pretty awesome, and I would love to play with my King krush and not hafta be BM for it, though I don't mind clicking a button to switch my spec and whatnot when I'm soloing.

Anyway, I have a bit of an idea. If that were to happen; Instead of just letting BM spec hunters get a second ability for their pet, why not change the last ability in the tree to allow.. Two pets out at the same time. Now before you say "ew no", let me explain a bit..

For one, the DPS would be halfed between them. So even though there would be two, they'd be doing the DPS of one.
I do realize this would be a bit OP with the pet buffs, but chances are there is a way to make it so when you have two out, only one buff from a pet is active (Of your choosing, or the first one you summon out. Or it could even work off of Acherontia's idea, kind of; one pet would have a buff, and the other pet would have the other one)

I gave this idea for the fact that.. BM would then still be unique to the other specs, but in a slightly different way.

Also I figure that Blizz could implement something along the lines of only allowing a certain secondary ability to go to certain pets, or just "gray it out" in a way. I mean; if they can already make the pet trees require a certain thing before being able to learn it (Dive, and the ability right under it, for example) then they could do something like that - A lesser ability of say.. web wrap (The pet abilities are slipping my mind at the moment; only one I could think of.. xD I apologize) would be one of the "required" things for "BOK" or "Fort".. or something along those lines.

Once again I apologize if I kinda rambled on.. And; if I misworded things, it's six in the morning here. Just wanted to add my little bits of ideas before I headed off.

[Rawr]

Personally I like the idea . I think some of the skills they put on some pets were done without thinking and it would be really cool to exchange them for another. Example; Rhinos, the punt skill is cool and uber funny but BM hunters have no use for an increase bleed effect on a pet, anything, even a slow, would be better. The Devilsaur is another I have issues with. 5% increased crit is awesome but the reduction to healing seems like a stupid idea to have on a pet when we have a skill that can be used in any spec that does that. I would like a 4% increase to physical damage instead of the -heals on my big mouthed baby

[Mindsprocket]

Funny this thread popped up. I've never liked exotic-only pets. I felt that giving BM the ability to tame extra pets was a gimmick to make people use the spec. ...And I still do, even though the BM dps has MUCH improved, much to my happiness. But I don't want to have to play BM to use certain pets. "But it's a perk!" is really more like "But it's a gimmick!"

To better tidy up your idea; give ALL pets set secondary abilities; kings, fort, heal, etc. But the only way to access them is to be BM. Wanna play with your Skoll as MM? Sure! But he can't use his heal. Gonna use your Jadefang to tank that elite while you pop you Lock n Load on it? Go ahead, but no Kings for you.

Beast Mastery
You master the art of Beast training, teaching your pet an additional ability and increasing your total amount of Pet Skill Points by 4.

I've always disliked the Exotics idea for the same reason.The idea that BM hunters can tame more beasts is nice in theory, but in practice it just doesn't work out so well. Either Exotics are better than other pets, then BM hunters have to use them which ultimatley limits their pet options rather than expanding them. Or Exotics aren't better than other pets, then they're purely cosmetic and thus only a pointless gimmick rather than something that actually affects performance. Basically, Exotics have been shilly-shallying between these two points eversince they were introduced and I don't see how they could break out of this.

So imo, at the very least Exotics do nothing good for BM, but they may actually be harmful - "Hey, BM should get an ability on par with Chimaera or Explosive Shot!" - "No, they already got those fancy pets. That's enough." Before Exotics, BM was about strong pets (RIP old Bestial Wrath D: ), but now it's about shinies. Add to this that the line between Exotics and none-Exotics is becoming more and more blurred anyway (why can MM hunters tame a flaming turtle but not an electrified wolf?). So I would be happy to see the Exotics tag removed. I never wanted it to be implemented. I really think we were better off without it.

I like the idea that "exotic" abilities are available for all pet families but can only be unlocked by BM hunters. It would make sense lore-wise - All hunters have the same pets but only BM hunters can use them to their full potential. But unlike the Exotics tag it wouldn't cause the same problems of limited pet options vs. shinies.

[Tahlian]

I think that sounds pretty awesome, and I would love to play with my King krush and not hafta be BM for it, though I don't mind clicking a button to switch my spec and whatnot when I'm soloing.

Anyway, I have a bit of an idea. If that were to happen; Instead of just letting BM spec hunters get a second ability for their pet, why not change the last ability in the tree to allow.. Two pets out at the same time. Now before you say "ew no", let me explain a bit..

For one, the DPS would be halfed between them. So even though there would be two, they'd be doing the DPS of one.
I do realize this would be a bit OP with the pet buffs, but chances are there is a way to make it so when you have two out, only one buff from a pet is active (Of your choosing, or the first one you summon out. Or it could even work off of Acherontia's idea, kind of; one pet would have a buff, and the other pet would have the other one)

I gave this idea for the fact that.. BM would then still be unique to the other specs, but in a slightly different way.

Also I figure that Blizz could implement something along the lines of only allowing a certain secondary ability to go to certain pets, or just "gray it out" in a way. I mean; if they can already make the pet trees require a certain thing before being able to learn it (Dive, and the ability right under it, for example) then they could do something like that - A lesser ability of say.. web wrap (The pet abilities are slipping my mind at the moment; only one I could think of.. xD I apologize) would be one of the "required" things for "BOK" or "Fort".. or something along those lines.

Once again I apologize if I kinda rambled on.. And; if I misworded things, it's six in the morning here. Just wanted to add my little bits of ideas before I headed off.

Good Gods, no. I don't WANT to have to micro-manage two pets in a raid or a heroic. There's moments as it is where I lose track of where exactly my wolf is - and on a fight like Theralion and Valiona, that often means he's standing over on the side, out of melee range, not attacking for some odd reason due to the two dragons switching places. If that issue were to be doubled...ay yi yi. Add to that our odd pet pathing issues and the tendency certain pets (foxes, tallstriders, carrion birds) have to go dashing off to kill critters...and a BM hunter with two pets out would be run out of groups or raids on a rail, with cries of "OMFG HUNTARD, CONTROL YOUR F'ING PETS!" echoing after us. And the enhancement shaman spirit wolves would like to talk to you about the thought that two pets out would somehow make beast masters "unique."

As it stands, all three hunter specs are pretty close to balanced. Yeah, there's one or two little things that could stand fixing - such as air phases absolutely destroying a beast master's DPS by taking Kill Command out of use - but we got things pretty good right now. We're not shackled to exotics by any means...but damn, it feels good for them to be wanted or needed from time to time. I was tickled to death last week when our shaman wasn't able to make raid, and someone said "But now we don't have any bloodlust!" and I said "We can have, if you want." And they said "oh right - we have Tahlian!" So I put up my current pet and got out Houston, my core hound, and off we went. Normally, I bring my wolf out...and that's just a matter of personal convenience, on the off-chance I need to switch to Survival. Valiant does just as well as my devilsaur should I choose to use Clayburn. I don't feel in any way restricted by my pets. In point of fact, my exotics make me feel a lot more versatile. They're great...but they're not necessary by any stretch. Let's not mess up the good thing we currently have going, okay?

[Socks]

/Drools over the fact of running around with my Gondria in MM
/Whimpers at the fact of seeing a nub hunter stacking spirit (Or something else we dont use at all) Running around with any Spirit beast in SV

My honest opinion is that I would love this personally, as long as the hunters know how to play and dont give BM rares a bad name, personally I see it as no exotic skill can be trained, unless you are in BM spec, then your raptor can have a heroism/blust
/shrug

[Grokan]

I've been kicking around a similar idea, except instead of removing the exotic status from pets, just give every pet their own exotic ability that is unlocked through the talent tree, and can only be unlocked via the 4 extra points BM gets. I think this would solve the BM AoE issue, as you could tame a pet that has an AoE exotic ability that you would have to be BM to unlock.

The best example I can think of is the current speculated Hydra special issue. Sure, give them the +5% crit and have them be non-exotic, but then give them an AoE exotic ability through the talent tree.

Now, I'm not entirely sure what other pets would get for special abilities, and I'm fully aware that this would require a lot of balancing to decide who gets what.

EDIT: Perhaps I should read the second page before I post. Didn't see that some of you already brought this up.

[Oswen]

Sadly i'm against this idea.

I think the way Exotic pets work now is totally perfect, they don't have any raw (dps, talents) bonus over a normal pet and their exotic abilities being linked with their family make them unique and special (as they should be, they aren't a common beast and only a skilled beast master can control them) while still not forcing us to use them since they are just buffs easily covered by other classes.

A situation has been mentioned here about spider/silithid in pvp, it's true that (without a priest or warrior or lock) you are missing Stamina buff if you are using a spider that still doesn't force you to use a silithid since you are by no mean misisng any core ability.
A Silithid has to be better than a spider in some way since it's not a common beast and you invest talents in order to be able to tame it, Qiraji Fortitude is what makes it unique and "exotic", giving a common spider a way to train that would just remove remove the entire concept of exotic beasts since we could then just delete the silithid family and integrate the skin with spiders at that point.
A BM hunter shouldn't *need* to use exotics and, in fact, they are not forced to, still using one should give you something unique more than just a "pretty skin", exotic abilities like those we have now are the right way to go.
Not to mention that we can use two other specs to pvp with a spider and get other benefits from different talentens.

Spreading exotics abilities around for me would just dull down pet differences and it would kind of be like a demo locks complaining that his felguard can't use blood pact and he is missing a stamina boost for his arena team because he can't use his imp.

However i totally agree that something should be done about Intimidation being BM "signature" ability, that just isn't right.