Nozdormu, Aspect of the Infinite?

[Ikutai]

So, it's been rumoured for awhile that Nozdormu is possibly behind the Infinite Dragonflight.

What we do know is this:

- Aman'thul, The Highfather empowered him to guard time itself and police the ever-spinning pathways of fate and destiny.

- As a lesson so that he would never think his power so great and terrible that he had to answer to no other, Aman'thul had also granted Nozdormu with the knowledge of his own demise.

- Nozdormu is seen briefly at the Bronze Dragonshrine during the quests [Mystery of the Infinite] and [Mystery of the Infinite, Redux], where he appears in a ethereal state above the Shrine itself. It's not confirmed one way or another if he's there observing the situation, helping the Bronze, or assisting the Infinite.

- During the entirety of The Burning Crusade, and most of Wrath of the Lich King, Nozdormu is away on a "quest" (as stated by Chromie), and his whereabouts are unknown. Ruling the Bronze flight in his stead are Anachronos (his son), Prime Consort Soridormi (his mate), and Andormu and his sister Nozari (the leaders of the Keepers of Time).

- He is both blessed and cursed: he knows when and how he will die. Until that time comes, he cannot perish.

- He is quoted with the following:

“I know what you hide from her, from usss. It is my fate and curssse to know such things and be unable myssself to prevent them. Know that I now asssk for forgiveness for the wrongs I will caussse you in the future, but I mussst be what I am destined to be... as Malygos is.” (speaking to Krasus, referring to Deathwing's impending betrayal)

(italics and bolding added by me for emphasis)

Now, this leads me to believe that Nozdormu *is* in fact the creator and leader of the Infinite Dragonflight. I also believe that the purpose of the Infinite is to change the timeways in a way that prevents and/or circumvents the situation that leads to Nozdormu's death. Afterall, he knows when he will die, so he has had ample amounts of time to plan a way around it if he wanted to. He may be attempting to circumvent his own death for an altruistic reason (maybe he believes his work is not done?) or he could simply have the instinct to stay alive like most sentient beings do. However, a good intention with evil actions is still Evil, and thus it's why we're brought into the conflict against the Infinite.

Lastly, I'd imagine what Nozdormu was shown was the Player Characters slaying him, and as such, altering time to ensure they never achieve and reach the pinnacles of power that they will have is the easiest way to ensure he stays alive. (if you look at what the Infinite has it's hands in and think about how vastly different your player character's existence would be, it's a huge difference)

Thoughts?

[Comett]

Nozdormu is my favourite aspect but I agree that all evidence seems to prod him in the direction of becoming the father of the Infinite dragonflight. It's one of my favourite plot predictions < 3 Really brilliantly done. I could ramble and rave about it all day. Because seeing all of time, and seeing how the world "ends", would make you want to change it - and that's what the Infinite dragonflight try to do, they try to stop major events happening that WILL cause suffering and death and destruction. The golden flight is just trying to keep time on track because those things need to happen to progress the world, etc.

I hate the idea that we're slowly killing off (or probably will kill off) all the aspects. I love the lore around them so much. The demon/dragonsoul books are some of my favourite fantasy novels haha. So it gets me down. Then I remind myself it's just a game, just a plot, not real... it'll all be ok... XDD

[Cerah]

It kind of sucks that all the Aspects besides Alexestreza seem to be either falling to the Dark Side, or sleeping on the job (friggin' greens and their Emerald Dream/Fantasy Matrix), but all the signs in-game seem to be pointing in this direction for Nozdormu. In that case though, wouldn't he have known that the bronze flight would hire mercenaries (us players) to try to stop the Infinite? Or is our reality just the one in which they are stopped, and there's others branching off from where the Infinites have succeeded? Imagine an Azeroth where Arthas was killed before he could become the Lich King? Sometimes, I have to think the Infinites were on to something.

I think timelines are something that's too complicated for the mortal races of Azeroth to understand, lore-wise (and a big, flippin' headache for us players to try to figure out). That's why it was left up to dragons in the first place. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens, in this version of Azeroth.

[Lupis]

It does look like he'll go evil.. However, one thing doesn't make sense - if he was shown his death, then how could he hope to change it? The future is the future. He's a bronze, so he knows that the future happens no matter what you do, the future counts in all the things you try to do to stop it. That's why it's going to happen.
So why would he try to stop it?

[Saturo]

It does look like he'll go evil.. However, one thing doesn't make sense - if he was shown his death, then how could he hope to change it? The future is the future. He's a bronze, so he knows that the future happens no matter what you do, the future counts in all the things you try to do to stop it. That's why it's going to happen.
So why would he try to stop it?

Fear.

[cowmuflage]

Aye hes more likely scared of death. I mean drakes are not above fearing death. The smarter the being the more they fear death useally.

[Chimera]

I hate paradox's. I hate hate hate paradox's. Nozdormu can warp reality and existence and we would never know about it because it would never happen. Ive always thought from the evidence compiled against him that he was tied to the Infinite Dragonflight but reading your post is like BOOM it makes sense-- in a way.

In one hand he could be trying to warp things to avoid his inevitable (or is it? Infinite. Infinity, Eternity, Eternal.) death.

He could also be trying to change the future to save Azeroth and perhaps in another reality, perhaps thousands of realities (im totally going into Stargate with this lol) where everything starts out the same but then from then on its changed, different events happen, different actions are taken, he's already dead or everything is ladi-da safe and happy~ (ok im starting to ramble away from our actual reality now..).

Um, yea lol he could be trying to avoid his demise or he could be trying to save Azeroth from a fate we have yet to meet or hes trying to destroy Azeroth. He controls time but once hes dead, i feel at least that.. hes dead. No restart button. Least, not for many thousands of years-- they are eternal in spirit because of their powers.

He knows and bends the flow of time but the future will always be uncertain, we have no idea if hes trying to bend it to his own personal desires and even though we're pretty sure he has a good grip on the past because its already happened, whos to say he doesnt struggle with what has yet to come to pass? He's still flesh and blood and he can still die physically.

I dunno, dont mind me if i dont make any sense in parts of that, Time is a confusing and extremely facinating thing to me XD

[Lisaara]

All I can say....Blizzard has NOT confirmed anything on this so we should leave it for now that its only speculation and none of this should be taken as a fact until something solid happens.

I personally think, while he is the father of the Infinite Flight, he is not evil. The infinite flight just seemed to be an experiment gone awry.

[Chimera]

At this point Blizzard is looking to themselves, outside sources, and us players to think of what to add in next so its a good thing for us to ponder and throw ideas out about something in the game that has no apperent future, the Warcraft universe is hugely influenced on people whether they are players or just people in the world doing something

[Cialbi]

A self-fulfilling prophesy, if you ask me. If Nozdormu knows that adventurers will kill him, with the backing of Alexstrasza most likely, I could see why he would create the infinite dragonflight. However, by doing so, he gives a reason for us adventurers to seek his demise - if he hadn't created the infinite dragonflight, then he wouldn't suffer the fate of Malygos (that is, having the other dragonflights turn against him). I guess this could be rationalized as Nozdormu having made a mistake in creating the infinite dragonflight, and now is trying to do what he can before the house of cards inevitably collapses. In other words, he's already at a point of no return, and his only hope is in being able to alter the timeline with his new dragonflight, preventing the inevitable from occurring.

[Comett]

Infinite dragon mount anyone

[Cialbi]

Umm, yes please, Comett! I wonder if that 'smokey' effect that infinite dragons have going on would create a neat little trail behind a drake mount. I did the Opening of the Dark Portal instance twice in a row yesterday, but I honestly was far more focused on making sure that the dragonkin weren't moving to bother seeing if they do leave a trail behind them. Heck, I could just be imagining that they have some sort of shadow-y effect around them.

[Rikaku]

Honestly, I've always believe that Nozdormu is going to eventually be shown as the leader of the Infinite Flight. The Dragonblight quest all but confirmed it (in my mind). Keep in mind the quest in Dragonblight is SPECIFICALLY aimed at finding out who the leader is of the Infinite Dragonflight. At the end of the quest, Nozdormu is shown. While the questgiver takes it as "yay Nozdormu is ok!", I take it as 'hey the spell worked, that's the leader of the Infinite Dragonflight!"

Another issue that makes me think it's Nozdormu is that it seems every dragonflight has some sort of corruption going on (Malygos' insanity, the Nightmare, Black Dragonflight/Deathwing [i shouldn't need to elaborate it], Infinite Flight)... It also seems like perhaps this Infinite Flight is a type of corruption. In Tanaris, there is now a rare spawn named Occulus the Corrupted who is an Infinite Drake. For those who don't remember, pre-Cataclysm Occulus was one of the Bronze drakes who gaurded the entrance to the Caverns of Time.

Coincidence? Maybe. But it's way more fun to speculate. XD

My opinion? We'll see more of the Infinite Flight in Cataclysm somewhere. And I have a feeling they may just be one of the leading Dragonflights in the next expansion perhaps? Hmm...

Also, I don't think the Infinite Flight are actually "evil" really. Heck, if anything, their intentions are actually good (most of the time). I mean, I dunno about you, but I hated it when I had to help Arthas in Culling of Stratholme =/ Or Medivh in Black Morass...

Don't get me started on helping Thrall!! JUST KIDDING (Hey, I had to add that in, I am Alliance after all).

But in the Culling of Stratholme and Black Morass, obviously their intentions are good. I mean if both of those events hadn't come to pass, a lot more lives would've been saved technically.

But I don't think the interference of the Infinite Flight is Nozdormu's (if he is the leader) means to avoid his own death. The way I see it, Nozdormu isn't really trying to prevent his own death, instead he may have fallen into a sort of madness; perhaps after thinking to himself how much better it WOULD be if he intervened in some of Azeroth's darkest hours. After years of dwelling on the idea, he has decided to act upon it and the bronze drakes who follow him become 'corrupted' as well and become Infinite drakes.

...

I spent way too much time thinking about this just now XD

[Chimera]

O_O Occulus is now corrupted!?!?!?!? Nuuuuuuuu i like those dragons guarding the Caverns of Time~~~~

But I don't think the interference of the Infinite Flight is Nozdormu's (if he is the leader) means to avoid his own death. The way I see it, Nozdormu isn't really trying to prevent his own death, instead he may have fallen into a sort of madness; perhaps after thinking to himself how much better it WOULD be if he intervened in some of Azeroth's darkest hours. After years of dwelling on the idea, he has decided to act upon it and the bronze drakes who follow him become 'corrupted' as well and become Infinite drakes.

I totally see that, its another really good possibility!

[Lazyorc]

While it may be easy to look at the opening of the dark portal as an event that would have been better off not happening, the repercutions of preventing it may be huge, if the dark portal had never been opened the orcs would have never come to azeroth which seems good from certain points of view because it would have prevented the first and second wars but theres no garrentee that it would have prevented the second invasion of the burning legion and without Thrall and the horde, the battle of mount hyjal would have ended very differently, I personally found it interesting that in TBC the Caverns of time dungeons that involved the infinite flight both seemed linked to the horde, the coming of the horde to azeroth and they're reformation under Thrall specificly, as for the Culling of Stratholme, if arthas had died there he wouldn't have been able to tell Illidan about the Skull of Guldan, and its destruction along with the lose of Tichondrius were major blows to the Legion

[Comett]

I pretty much entirely agree with Rikaku's view there. ^_^

I think the main problem with the Infinite dragons (from our perspective and point in time at the moment) is that while their direct intentions are good, the consequences of those intentions will be far worse than if the Infinites hadn't interfered. As mentioned via world tree, burning legion, so on and so forth. It's like they're shortsighted or something 3:

[Ikutai]

All I can say....Blizzard has NOT confirmed anything on this so we should leave it for now that its only speculation and none of this should be taken as a fact until something solid happens.

I personally think, while he is the father of the Infinite Flight, he is not evil. The infinite flight just seemed to be an experiment gone awry.

Noone has said that Blizzard has confirmed anything. And I specifically refer to things as "I believe" and "I think", they're personal opinions.

There is no harm in speculation, and I don't believe anyone has taken any of this for fact, if they did it's due to their own logical fallacy.

I absolutely love all the views shared here.

I, too, think that Nozdormu has created his own Paradox, in by creating the infinite he's given us a reason to kill him off, which *seems* like what he's trying to do in the first place: prevent his own death.

It's all just so fascinating.

Shame about Occulus though.

[Rikaku]

While it may be easy to look at the opening of the dark portal as an event that would have been better off not happening, the repercutions of preventing it may be huge, if the dark portal had never been opened the orcs would have never come to azeroth which seems good from certain points of view because it would have prevented the first and second wars but theres no garrentee that it would have prevented the second invasion of the burning legion and without Thrall and the horde, the battle of mount hyjal would have ended very differently, I personally found it interesting that in TBC the Caverns of time dungeons that involved the infinite flight both seemed linked to the horde, the coming of the horde to azeroth and they're reformation under Thrall specificly, as for the Culling of Stratholme, if arthas had died there he wouldn't have been able to tell Illidan about the Skull of Guldan, and its destruction along with the lose of Tichondrius were major blows to the Legion

This is true, but there would be some amount of lives saved in those situations. I mean even in the Culling of Stratholme the Infinite Flight makes statements about how the loss of life that Arthas will bring forth in the future. But you're right, the reprucussions of stopping such an event are massive; sometimes greater than the 'original sin'.

Yanno speaking of Culling of Stratholme, did any of you guys actually happen to see what happens if you don't save that Bronze Dragonspawn from the Infinite Corruptor? I forgot to add, he turns the Bronze Dragonspawn into an Infinite Dragonspawn.

So, it definitely has to be some form of corruption then. Hmm...

[Ikutai]

So, it definitely has to be some form of corruption then. Hmm...

Corruption? Or could it be argued that it's a form of "purification", brought on my Nozdormu? That this alignment to Nozdormu's current goals is only seen as corruption by those who are not inclusive to it?

[Saturo]

So, it definitely has to be some form of corruption then. Hmm...

Corruption? Or could it be argued that it's a form of "purification", brought on my Nozdormu? That this alignment to Nozdormu's current goals is only seen as corruption by those who are not inclusive to it?

That's the thing. For the infinites this is the best thing ever, for the bronzes it's awful. Two sides of the story. Just find some of the in-game Scourge propaganda. It would make it seem that killing everything is the best thing ever.