Warlock Demons - A Choice on Gender

[TygerDarkstorm]

That's epic Saturo!

[Shinryu Masaki]

Not my work. But still...

[Cialbi]

That is brilliant. Don't think the voidwalker voice would fit with that, though...

[Silivren]

That is brilliant. Don't think the voidwalker voice would fit with that, though...

You tell that to Dr. Girlfriend! (Venture Bros..anyone?.. Anyone? <.<)

[Mychelle]

And as far as the Succie goes...I just really dont know. Would they be pushing it with a "sexy" male version? I sure as hell aint going to down grade the idea or anything, I just really cant figure out a mental image of what they'd do here. A male version in tight leather and a whip is just....Yeah. =P

And how is that different from a female in tight leather with a whip?
Just saying, it's not really that different. Society is just more used to women showing off like that, and not guys.

Yeah, that is more or less basically what I was getting at. Throwing a half nude leather wearing female-figure into a game that is "supposedly" dominated by guys appears to already be perfectly acceptable, throw a half nude male into the mix in the same leather outfit and all of a sudden the game becomes "crude and unacceptable". As one of my guy friend's opinion is. In my opinion, whats okay for one gender to do, is perfectly acceptable for the opposite gender as well. I just have this feeling there is going to be a fairly large number of guys that are going to retaliate at having to see these "male" versions of a Succie. *If* they even make one thats as supposedly "sexually appealing" as the Succie is for guys, which I have another feeling they wont....sadly. I just figured they wouldnt go as far with it as I'd like to actually see them do to be fair. Because even I got to admit, there is a fairly large number of guys that play this game and a good deal of them are not very mature enough not to go absolutely "OMGWTFGTFO" on the idea of the male "sexy" Succie. Who knows, maybe Im over-thinking it. =P

[TygerDarkstorm]

There already is a large population of guys (at least on MMO-C which is full of idiots) that hate the idea of an incubus (no need to say "male succubus") because they don't want to be seduced by a male demon.

However, it's a game of pixels, if someone is really that offended by some pixels, then perhaps WoW is not for them as there are many, many more sexual references. Also, I don't think that many women have complained about being "seduced" by succubi for the last seven years; the men can deal with the new incubi.

[Serendipity82]

There already is a large population of guys (at least on MMO-C which is full of idiots) that hate the idea of an incubus (no need to say "male succubus") because they don't want to be seduced by a male demon.

However, it's a game of pixels, if someone is really that offended by some pixels, then perhaps WoW is not for them as there are many, many more sexual references. Also, I don't think that many women have complained about being "seduced" by succubi for the last seven years; the men can deal with the new incubi.

**applauds Tyger**

[Cialbi]

I think there is an inequality in what is considered 'acceptable'. Just look at a couple of obscenities; sl-- and wh--- are used interchangeably, both are meant to be descriptors for women, and there really aren't any derogatory equivalents that are used as descriptors for men ('player' is no where near as derogatory as 'sl--'). Those relate primarily to sexual promiscuity, yes. But, I think that gets thrown together with sexual fantasies, porn, and masturbation as sex-related taboos in our culture, and those slurs now have broader meanings and usages. Somehow, it's more acceptable for men to indulge in these kinds of pleasures than it is for women.

[TygerDarkstorm]

I think there is an inequality in what is considered 'acceptable'. Just look at a couple of obscenities; sl-- and wh--- are used interchangeably, both are meant to be descriptors for women, and there really aren't any derogatory equivalents that are used as descriptors for men ('player' is no where near as derogatory as 'sl--'). Those relate primarily to sexual promiscuity, yes. But, I think that gets thrown together with sexual fantasies, porn, and masturbation as sex-related taboos in our culture, and those slurs now have broader meanings and usages. Somehow, it's more acceptable for men to indulge in these kinds of pleasures than it is for women.

Couldn't have worded it better myself. We live in a world of double standards. The men suddenly being offended by incubi while women have had succubi for seven years being one of them.

[SpiritBinder]

I was reminded of this one when I saw this discussion on the boards

[Cialbi]

I'll be honest; I do find incubi to be unsettling and disturbing to some degree. It's a gut reaction, and very hard for me to change. But, I don't think that's what needs to change. I think the issue is that some people just need to recognize that this cut both ways, and when they're being hypocritical.

Besides, these are demons that we're talking about - not even people, just embodiments of what people fear and dread. The whole idea of incubi and succubi are to make you look over your shoulder, figuratively speaking; imposing upon you that nothing is sacred, and that your emotions & passions can and will betray you. They literally are the stuff of nightmares. Very gloomy and twisted, but isn't that the very nature of warlocks and their enslaved demonic minions?

[TygerDarkstorm]

You nailed it on the head as usual Cialbi.
Also, I'd like to mention, that the in game succubi don't bother me. First off, it's a game, and I view it as such. Secondly, in game, the "seduce" methods are nothing more than a charm that temporarily take away your ability to control your character. The demons don't even do anything sexualized except when the succy is idle and cracks her whip.

[SpiritBinder]

From my personal understanding of Succubus and Incubus prior to wow, was that essentially they were demons that came to people in their sleep, and try to have their way with you. The main difference from memory was that the Succubus would actually take on a the form of a woman to seduce men compared to Incubus which rather "forcefully" lie on top of the sleeper (and not always women, but mostly) to try and father a child according to legends.

I remembered seeing this picture while I read up on them when I was younger of some horrid little demon crouching on ones chest... and it kind of creeped me out a little.



Now I think with all of wow's amazing design team and clever artistic directions, I think they could totally do a more modern and wow directed design with an Incubus (as they have already done with the Succubus) A more anatomically human form, possibly with a bit of a "sexy" factor would be grand. But after having a look around most Incubus designs and depictions they normally do indicate them (head/face wise) being a little more horrific looking. With horns, teeth, devilish eyes and not always with wings either, whilst maintaining more of a human body however.

Anyways, just my 2 cents. I am just glad to hear the art department are looking at doing this, it will be wonderful for warlocks everywhere!

[TygerDarkstorm]

Spirit, just to add to that, succubi were actually originally pictured as demonic, scary beings much like incubi, but somewhere down the line, they turned into seductresses.
Btw Cow, I see that bit you were saying earlier on the wiki now--I must have overlooked it.

Edit: Found it.

In modern fictional representations, a succubus may or may not appear in dreams and is often depicted as a highly attractive seductress or enchantress, in contrast to the past where succubi were generally depicted as frightening and demonic.

[Cialbi]

The way I heard it, incubi and succubi did the same thing, except succubi targeted men and incubi targeted women. In short, they would sit on the chest of their victim while they slept, giving them nightmares. I think that if they were seductive in any way, it would be within those nightmares, while their true forms are terrible demons.

[TygerDarkstorm]

They do basically do the same thing.

[SpiritBinder]

Spirit, just to add to that, succubi were actually originally pictured as demonic, scary beings much like incubi, but somewhere down the line, they turned into seductresses.

Oh yes, without a doubt. They would one sometimes take the form of a women the "help" their odds

Underneath they were not necessarily a looker that's for sure. That, as you sai,d is something we (and even blizzard) have sexually morphed them into over the years.

[SpiritBinder]

The way I heard it, incubi and succubi did the same thing, except succubi targeted men and incubi targeted women. In short, they would sit on the chest of their victim while they slept, giving them nightmares. I think that if they were seductive in any way, it would be within those nightmares, while their true forms are terrible demons.

In some legends however, they certainly took the seductive thing further than a dream/nightmare, and defiantly tried to do the deed so to speak, even if for reproductive purposes.

An incubus (from the Latin, incubus, or "nightmare"; plural incubi) is a demon in male form who, according to a number of mythological and legendary traditions, lies upon sleepers, especially women, in order to have intercourse with them.
~
An incubus may pursue sexual relations with a woman in order to father a child, as in the legend of Merlin.

[cowmuflage]

Just to put it out there WoW succubi like most wow demons are techicly aliens who got there worlds taken over/joined the burning legion

So we are talking about sexy xenos lol I bet you succubi burst out of hosts like chestbursters.

[SpiritBinder]

So we are talking about sexy xenos lol I bet you succubi burst out of hosts like chestbursters.

Bwhahahaha! <3 it!

Well then this ones for you Cowmu