Nerfed to the ground goes tier 11

[SpiritBinder]

When my fail guild finally gets that content down a patch late, I'll be sure not to tell you and make you sad

Keke, it's because of you that my daft elitist attitude has become a lot more in check. One can never know to who or why others have what they have, or do what they do, but to judge anyone because of it is insulting to one's own intelligence. Oh and yes I'll be sad when you get yours, cause you will have the baby dark phoenix to match it dammit! (/jokes)


OT~

You helped me get my vitreous drake mount on the weekend. As far as I'm concerned you already rule

Hey we still have to get you a Drake of the North Wind too, that's gonna be another whole can of luck we have yet to crack open

[meunkin]

If this goes live ...................... I'm done. Blizzard seemingly has stopped catering to the largest of the player base which is the harder or hardcore raiders and dungeon goers. What is the point if it's not hard????? Where's the challenge??

I'm sorry but for me, this may be the straw that breaks the camel's back. My subscription ends in June and I may not be renewing at this point. What a shame.

I'm repeatedly confused by comments like this. This is a small, rather nice community, maybe you can help me understand.

These changes are for the non-heroic current raids. Heroic raids and Firelands content will still be balls-to-the-wall difficult.

Did you forget that you were getting a new raid tier? Did you expect to continue farming 359 gear when it is available for JP and in dungeons?

Who is the previous tier raid for? Are all of the raids, even the lowest-difficult last-tier content, for the hardcore? Even if they're 99% likely never to step foot in them again?

At a certain level, isn't there a little bit of "I get everything, you get nothing" in your statement?

[Novikova]

I just really don't get the 'Oh LORDY casuals and pugs and fails in my heroics and raids! RAWR FAIL BLIZZARD BAD' sentiment. Aside from Vanilla, old content almost invariably gets nerfed so that those not raiding for progression or regularly can /eventually/ see it or parts of it. Yes, even MC and Blackwing Lair and Naxx 40 were nerfed a few times. Shockingly, AQ in the old days too. ICC heroic and Uld heroics can still whip an unwary group even at 85s. There's always Hard Mode content. Shouldn't there be something for the less hard core? This isn't ... really new.

I just can't grasp this 'raiders should get all the content, casuals shouldn't see anything except 5 mans maybe' sentiment. It's not hurting raiders for casuals to do lower tier - they might even benefit as the AH picks up and prices are competitive. And hey, it's not so hard to find a replacement for someone when most people get reasonable gear. Small RP guilds and their ilk don't deserve to be wiped out or left in the dust. I can't stand huge guilds where I don't know people.

meunkin and Wain said it better than I did honestly.

[SpiritBinder]

I just can't grasp this 'raiders should get all the content, casuals shouldn't see anything except 5 mans maybe' sentiment.

There are so many views on this subject that you don't have to grasp this sentiment, just be aware that everyone has different opinions and views on this. I believe Cynical Brit (love him or hate him) also shares a concern in the direction certain things are going (agree with him or not), but for other reasons too. Acherontia has started a lovely thread with a link over
here ---> http://forums.wow-petopia.com/viewtopic ... 15&t=12015
I for one don't normally listen to his podcast very often but I found a lot of what he had to say rather interesting simply due to it opening my eyes/mind to others thinking and options (agree with them or not)

I guess I'm just saying weather you choose to agree with them or not, the more options one can hear/read/listen to, the more of an informed personal decision one can make, even if some can be as possibly uninspiring as FFFFFUUUUU >:-Q

[Novikova]

Oh, I'm perfectly aware. I just dislike being attacked/blamed all the time because I play less. Someone with less play time is not automatically bad/going to hurt you/whatever and honestly, there's plenty of content to go around. They almost /always/ nerf old content when new comes out. There's no threat to raiders at all, who will still have the best gear/access to more things. Besides, alt runs can be fun.

Really, you're preaching to someone who knows a good chunk of this. I just ... really cannot see how one group of players is a threat to another. No one will steal your achievements, no one will steal your best gear. There's so little harm being done by nerfing *old* content.

Edit: And yes, there should always be hard modes and shinies for raiders. No one really deserves to get clamped out of their hobby. But sometimes a bit of time away can make the game doubleplus awesome too. Cata is ... I don't know. I don't feel the pull I did to Wrath. I loved the scenery in Wrath. Cata just feels kinda 'ehn'. I love my warlock alt, my druid's alright (I hate having to alt for goodie bags but hey, c'est la vie. I honestly haven't noticed any changes in my queue times on Novi), and a few alts are coming along. But at top level it's like whacking your head on a ceiling a bit. Or even after your 4th alt ... you can't stand to collect bear butts for the elves anymore. I've noticed a lot of my friends chilling more or just cutting back on WoW this expansion. There's a lot of factors at work really.

[SpiritBinder]

The thing I did hear/not realize after listening to the link was that with the availability to full T11 via points, one would out gear (and yes you would be over gearing it as you would currently have the gear that was once only avalible off the mob your currently killing) the current raids quite quickly making them much easier than intended. Also with the combination of having access to full raid gear, (without even raiding (I'm not saying this is a good or bad thing)) but if you also add a nerf to the mobs/mechanics, would that be overkill? (This combination I did not consider)...

But yeah Sorry Novikova, I hope it did not come across a "preachy" Was truly not my intention

[Saturo]

This is bullshit. Makes me proud of my decision to leave WoW.

[zedxrgal]

This is not going to be the easiest or best formed post simply because I'm on my phone trying to type but I will do my best.
My reply wasn't meant as an attack on anyone and I'm sorry it was taken so personally.

The decision I am making is based on MY PERSONAL FEELINGS that Blizzard is heading down the wrong path on this one and yes in a sense not catering to a huge core group of players. Spiritbinder said it perfectly for me so I don't need to go into to much detail and basically say the same thing they did.

I have said it once or twice and I'm sure I will have to say it a few more times. Pushing out new content at break neck speeds to make others happy (which I'm 99% certain is what Blizzard is doing) does not make the content better! What's the point of new content of you get through it in a month? Maybe two??? And a good chunk of Blizzard's player base is made up of raiders of different kinds all screaming for the same thing for the most part that they wish the raid content was back to the way it was and was so flipping hard it took
learning and skill to beat it. Not saying it doesnt now but it sure as hell is nothing like what was in vanilla or TBC. Sheesh even the Cata raids were heavily nerfed from the beta for seemingly no reason.
So nerfing these is almost like adding insult to injury. I am not a hardcore raider nor am I even a everyday player. So please don't assume I'm making this gripe because it's so effecting me. I play between once to three times a week and was really considering getting back into raiding but at this point this has kind of ruined that for me. But that is my personal choice.
And I have taken breaks from wow. My longest was almost 10 months. I've been playing since the dawn of WoW time and at this point in time I FEEL that Blizzard is taking things in a direction that I don't want to be apart of. That's my choice and opinion on it. No one on this board has the right to say otherwise or that they need to "understand" my personal choice regarding if I want to play.

I have till mid June (I think) to decide. It's not looking as though it will be in Blizzard's favor nor will they care if I unsubscribe.

[Ziarre]

I'm just gonna leave this here... http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/164963/i-quit

I already said my piece in the Cynical Brit thread in General, but the link is worthy of repeating. They told us this would happen.

[Miyon]

The t11 gear is the 359 that will be purchasable for jp in 4.2?

[SgtMakkie]

Yes.

[SpiritBinder]

This is bullshit. Makes me proud of my decision to leave WoW.

You dont play wow anymore? So why are you posting profanities about somthing that clearly does not effect you? And your proud..? Yournegative attitude perplexes me as to it's direction and implication, what message are you tring to get across?

[Saturo]

My message? That I seriously disapprove of where the game is headed lately.

I'll keep on posting my profanities and negative attitudes, thankyouverymuch.

[Vasken]

I...

I might be...

I might be able to actually raid.

It won't be current content; I don't understand why everyone's blowing themselves up over it. I'm glad they're giving casuals the chance to actually see content on normal mode. I've been stuck in normals and heroics since Cataclysm's release, WANT WANT WANT. Might be able to drag my social guild into the raid and actually kill things.

[SpiritBinder]

My message? That I seriously disapprove of where the game is headed lately.

Like you said, you "proudly" dont even play this game anymore, this does not even effect you.

I'll keep on posting my profanities and negative attitudes, thankyouverymuch

"The only difference between a good day and a bad day is your attitude." ~D.S.B
It would seem as though you really enjoy your bad days lately, shame you wish to share them with us in the majority of your posts.
Saturo, please keep this in mind when posting "Attitudes are contagious. Are yours worth catching?" ~D&W M

[Yaone]

Regardless of all these nerfs, guilds who haven't ever been there aren't going to steamroll it. And I highly doubt you will see every 85 with a "Defender of a Shattered World" title within a week. Personally having done all content on normal I think it is a good change for those who haven't yet. Some of the nerfs I can't even comment on since I have never got froze with waterlog (for example). >.<

In all honesty tho, a lot of the nerfs seem more like "if you make a boo boo you won't wipe your raid now!" which is nice specially when someone lags at a very bad time and gets blown up etc.

[Vephriel]

I know not everyone is of the same opinion on this, but I feel completely neutral about this change. Today's article on WoW Insider reflects much of the same mindset I have regarding all this:

- Current heroic raid content will remain unchanged. Heroic Cho'gall, heroic Atramedes, heroic Nefarian will all be as difficult as they are now. So you won't see guilds that are 9/12 normal mode waltzing into heroic BoT and killing Sinestra the day 4.2 goes live. She's still going to be ludicrously hard.
- The raids we currently have will become outdated content the day Firelands becomes available, the same way Naxx became outdated when Ulduar came out and Trial of the Crusader became outdated when ICC came out. They will no longer even reward you with valor points, and all current valor point gear will switch to being purchasable with justice points (the same points one can get for running normal 85 dungeons). This means that entry-level raiding will be obsolete, and the only people doing it will be people just starting out or a few completists.
- Therefore, it is in the interest of the game to let people see this content once it becomes obsolete and move on as quickly as possible.
- You can return your seat to its normal, upright position now. If anyone is telling you that this is an outrage, a slap in the face, a nod to the casuals, the ruination of the game, or the horns of the dread Armagedillo poking forth, they're wrong. And possibly a hysterical maniac who overreacts to a simple armadillo pet.

Look, to say this again: The second that patch 4.2 drops and we have Firelands and a new boss in Tol Barad's Baradin Hold, this current content becomes yesterday's news. It immediately loses its status as cutting-edge content. If anyone is struggling on it due to lack of gear, time constraints, or even an inability to complete it, that no longer matters. The content you're meant to be doing for bragging rights is over in the Firelands, folks.

Accessibility for a bunch of old content you've already been doing for months doesn't affect you at all. It's not as if it will provide anything a raider on the cutting edge of content will care about. It will provide gear that is the same ilevel as justice point purchases and justice points -- same as any normal level 85 dungeon.

Players who won't be able to raid Firelands will likely go into these raids to see them for the first time, and there's nothing wrong with that. They're a whole tier of content behind you, anyway.

Combine this with the fact that the heroic level encounters are seeing no changes at all, and you completely avoid any sort of "dumbing down" of content you did when it was hard. The hard stuff is staying hard. Frankly, some of the raid encounters were probably a bit overtuned for people coming into them in 346 blues, anyway. If you are long past normal raiding and are working on heroic Atramedes, those heroic kills you have already done are not going to be accomplished by people in a handful of epics in 4.2.

This is exactly like when all current raid content was nerfed at the end of The Burning Crusade so that people could see it before Wrath dropped. It's exactly like the scaling ICC buff that let groups progress after the hardest of the hardcore have already burned through it.

The sky is not falling.

[Lisaara]

I like that quote Veph. That's pretty much how I feel in some levels. In others its a bit different.

[zedxrgal]

That is a great quote Veph.

But at the same time, I am curious if Blizzard is basically putting that out there to cover their asses on this a bit to hopefully reduce some backlash. I don't know. But the Firelands raid is only going to have 7 bosses. I personally, and this is me only speaking for myself, feel it will not take long for people to get through that content. Then it will become as Blizzard or whomever put it, "outdated" to those who have completed it.

Gaw ............. I really wish I could fully put out there what I'm trying to relay. For me, it seems pointless to nerf something and to push new content out that will become outdated within a couple months. I'm sure the Firelands are going to be hard and hopefully harder then the Cata content which was beaten fairly quickly in my eyes but as it appears now it will still be old news after a couple months then people will be screaming for more "new" content.

But it is a good quote.

[Lisaara]

That is a great quote Veph.

But at the same time, I am curious if Blizzard is basically putting that out there to cover their asses on this a bit to hopefully reduce some backlash. I don't know. But the Firelands raid is only going to have 7 bosses. I personally, and this is me only speaking for myself, feel it will not take long for people to get through that content. Then it will become as Blizzard or whomever put it, "outdated" to those who have completed it.

Gaw ............. I really wish I could fully put out there what I'm trying to relay. For me, it seems pointless to nerf something and to push new content out that will become outdated within a couple months. I'm sure the Firelands are going to be hard and hopefully harder then the Cata content which was beaten fairly quickly in my eyes but as it appears now it will still be old news after a couple months then people will be screaming for more "new" content.

But it is a good quote.

Thats WoWHead I think it was. I really wish Blizz would put in a 3rd mode - Easy. All video games usually have the 3 standard modes(Easy, Normal, Hard) so.....this wouldnt be anything hard to implement. This way, people can see the content and clear as they please.