Hey Noah! It's time to fix Spirit Beasts and Exotics...

[Slickrock]

Dear Noah (and dear Wain please show him this idea...),

It's time to redo Spirit Beasts and Exotics. As we gather more and more Spirit Beasts, it's becoming an issue in the stables where you have 10+ Spirit Beasts all with the same abilities. I've had to start releasing them, because there's no point (or room) to collect them all.

So, here's my idea...

1) Remove spirit beasts as a family (don't panic yet, I'm going someplace with this).

2) Make all current exotic families non-exotic, removing the extra talent. (again all, don't panic).

3) Make all the existing Spirit beasts the "exotic" version of that family. (So all the spirit cats and Loque would be the exotic version of the cat family, doing the same with the other spirit beasts)

4) For the other new "exotic" versions (Karoma, Arcticulus (sp?), etc), add a NEW exotic talent instead of the current Spirit Beast talent.

5) Take the old exotic talents, and apply them to one or two rares in each family (so Krush might become the exotic SB of the devilsaur family)

6) Add new exotic talents to the other families, again applied to one or two rares.

The result?

1) Much more diversity in Spirit Beasts.

2) More access to other pet familes for other hunters

3) Greater utility for Spirit Beasts

The only loss?

BM would not have some special families that only they have access to (other than the combined spirit beasts / exotics)

[GormanGhaste]

I like this idea. I really love my Loque, Cirque, but would love to be able to re-tame Aquamarine, my Ghostcrawler, as a crab. And yes, I would love the spirit beasts to be more diverse, I think we have enough cats already, both spirit beast and regular.

However, as this would lead to more people wanting multiple spirit beasts, there would be even more competition for them. Perhaps instituting faster spawn timers or more SBs like Ghostcrawler in remote locations would help.

[Kaïna]

I have to say no to that.

First of all because I love how Blizzard gave BM hunters something special. I love the way these creatures look and it's actually fun to "hunt" for them. If MM and Survival hunters could tame these, I'd be really disappointed. Mainly because they were meant for BM hunters. These pets are just like "weapons". Their special abilities ( the heal of the spirit beasts in particular) have saved me more than once. Especially when PvP'ing.

It's pretty much like you would come up and went: "Oh! Let's remove aimed shot, black arrow and explosive shot!"

Does that make any sense? No.
Spirit beasts and other exotic pets are here to stay.
If you want one, go BM.
Hunters are broken anyway.

[Worba]

It's an interesting spin on the idea, I'll grant you, but... no. At least currently BM hunters still have a reason to bother with non-spirit beasts when solo'ing or PVP'ing - if every family suddenly included a "spirit beast" version then BM hunters would use nothing but SBs.

Sad as it may seem to watch SBs go from "the few, the mighty" a la Loque / Skoll, to "the shiny herd" a la now, I think this is inevitable when all factors are weighed.

[Slickrock]

I have to say no to that.

First of all because I love how Blizzard gave BM hunters something special. I love the way these creatures look and it's actually fun to "hunt" for them. If MM and Survival hunters could tame these, I'd be really disappointed. Mainly because they were meant for BM hunters. These pets are just like "weapons". Their special abilities ( the heal of the spirit beasts in particular) have saved me more than once. Especially when PvP'ing.

It's pretty much like you would come up and went: "Oh! Let's remove aimed shot, black arrow and explosive shot!"

Does that make any sense? No.
Spirit beasts and other exotic pets are here to stay.
If you want one, go BM.
Hunters are broken anyway.

No, it wouldn't take the spirit beasts away. MM/SV could still not tame Loq, or Banthy, etc. MM/SV would be able to tame Rhinos and plain T-Rexes.

The idea is to give SB/exotics more utility, not take them away.

I want a reason to have 10 SBs in my stable, right now there isn't one. I'm starting to ditch them, because 10 SBs is like 10 cats, kinda stupid unless you are just a collector.

[Slickrock]

It's an interesting spin on the idea, I'll grant you, but... no. At least currently BM hunters still have a reason to bother with non-spirit beasts when solo'ing or PVP'ing - if every family suddenly included a "spirit beast" version then BM hunters would use nothing but SBs.

Sad as it may seem to watch SBs go from "the few, the mighty" a la Loque / Skoll, to "the shiny herd" a la now, I think this is inevitable when all factors are weighed.

True, it would limit the ideal pets for BM to use, but doesn't it already do that anyway? SBs are still the ideal BM pet, and THEY ALL DO THE SAME THING. Wouldn't it be nice if there was a tanking SB? a PVP one?

[Worba]

It's an interesting spin on the idea, I'll grant you, but... no. At least currently BM hunters still have a reason to bother with non-spirit beasts when solo'ing or PVP'ing - if every family suddenly included a "spirit beast" version then BM hunters would use nothing but SBs.

Sad as it may seem to watch SBs go from "the few, the mighty" a la Loque / Skoll, to "the shiny herd" a la now, I think this is inevitable when all factors are weighed.

True, it would limit the ideal pets for BM to use, but doesn't it already do that anyway?

For DPS, yes - that's why I was saying at least we still have a reason (under the present system) to use something other than a SB when solo'ing (tenacity) or pvp (cunning). E.g. at least only one spec has been "SB-ified", but what you're proposing would extend that to all 3.

[Slickrock]

It's an interesting spin on the idea, I'll grant you, but... no. At least currently BM hunters still have a reason to bother with non-spirit beasts when solo'ing or PVP'ing - if every family suddenly included a "spirit beast" version then BM hunters would use nothing but SBs.

Sad as it may seem to watch SBs go from "the few, the mighty" a la Loque / Skoll, to "the shiny herd" a la now, I think this is inevitable when all factors are weighed.

True, it would limit the ideal pets for BM to use, but doesn't it already do that anyway?

For DPS, yes - that's why I was saying at least we still have a reason (under the present system) to use something other than a SB when solo'ing (tenacity) or pvp (cunning). E.g. at least only one spec has been "SB-ified", but what you're proposing would extend that to all 3.

True, but, it would give us a "better" tanking pets as BM, and better PVP pets. Hopefully we would have a few to choose from (we have what, 6 spirit beast cats?.. ) You wouldn't have as many choices (doubt there would be more than one SB croc) in one family, but you would still be able to choose between families.

I see what you are saying, but I still think that's better than the overabundance of SBs we have now with no additional value to them. I'll take that tradeoff. I only use 3 pets for raiding right now, the rest never see the light of day (cat, SB, and WS).

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The other idea would be to allow BM to make ANY pet exotic, but somehow I don't think that would fly, and that WOULD give all the pets to the other hunters, and I don't think we want to go there.

[Kalliope]

True, but, it would give us a "better" tanking pets as BM, and better PVP pets.

How is what you're suggesting going to give BM "better PvP pets"?

[Worba]

I don't think encouraging BM hunters to have ghosts in every family is a good solution to the SB overpopulation (and making them "better" than the rest of the family just cements their dominance with BM specs) - the "blah" feeling we have about them now is at least somewhat offset by the fact that we have good reasons to use something else outside of dungeons / raids; if we spread them across every family then initially yeah it might be kind of fun trying on the new fit ("hey look what I can tank with my ghost bear!") but inevitably the "blah" would follow there too... only then there would be no going back.

I like SBs as much as anyone else, but I'd like to see more reason for us to use other pets not less. Honestly I would have liked for the new rares not to include ANY SBs - adding more like Terrorpene or the spiders is great as it provides other "glam pets" (and ones not restricted to BM), but adding more SBs just leads to players complaining about how 25 slots is not enough stable space (you're not doing that, I know, but that is other peoples' reaction to the same issue), or pushing for a major overhaul of the pet system as you are proposing...

[Slickrock]

True, but, it would give us a "better" tanking pets as BM, and better PVP pets.

How is what you're suggesting going to give BM "better PvP pets"?

There would be an "exotic" version of each PVP pet family.

[Slickrock]

the "blah" feeling we have about them now is at least somewhat offset by the fact that we have good reasons to use something else outside of dungeons / raids

True, but... you just said it yourself, IN raids and dungeons, what do you use?.. SBs.

Part of the problem is that the other exotics, other than Trex, really don't get used at all. (Rhinos anyone? They are pretty lame as an exotic, some fixes are needed)

Combine that with the overabundance of SBs, and we have our current mess.

There's another goal here I just remembered.

I don't want to be gimped in a raid as BM because I need to bring a WS for that buff. Right now, if I have to bring a WS, I'm better off switching to SV and bringing the WS. I shouldn't have to make that change to provide a buff. (Same for any other buff, but WS is the one I have to bring most often, Ravager would be the other).

[Kalliope]

True, but, it would give us a "better" tanking pets as BM, and better PVP pets.

How is what you're suggesting going to give BM "better PvP pets"?

There would be an "exotic" version of each PVP pet family.

....and?

We currently already have an exotic version of the all around strongest pvp pet (spider/silithid). BM hunters are generally using dps pets (often spirit beasts) currently, from what I've seen. So what's the gain?

[Chimera]

All i would like is for them to be placed in the family they took the general shape of (cats and cats, wolves and wolves etc. as you suggested) but thats it. And i would looooove to have something like a devilsaur as MM specc but personally i dont want to see all of a town filled with chimeras, devilsaurs, spirit beasts... i get bored of something if i stare at it too long and i really love my King Krush, if i saw him (either the same player or multiple players) like 30 times a day i would get really tired of having mine out and id probably throw him into the stables and eventually abandonment, so id like the current exotics to stay exotic, and i definitely do want the spirit beasts to retain their Spirit Walk and Spirit Heal. That way they are still spirit beasts even though they are no longer a family all their own.

[TygerDarkstorm]

If the only pet you're using in dungeons and raids is a SB then you aren't playing your class to its fullest/using the various pet buffs to their fullest. Spirit Beasts aren't the only pets BM is limited to, and if you think so then perhaps you need to take a step back or something. Hunter pets already took a major overhaul this expansion for, what I believe is, the better. We have a HUGE variety of different buffs and debuffs to bring to a group and if you're only choosing to bring the most common one, then that's not Blizzard's fault. I know I personally have used both my devilsaur and serpent in dungeon groups recently because 95% of the time, the SB buff is covered by someone else.

[Worba]

Well yeah, I've already said ferocity has been lost to this malady, but that's not a reason to help it spread to the other trees...

(And yes, I know we don't "have to" take SBs, I know they aren't "the best", I'm just talking about how they've become the norm due to being pretty)

There's plenty that could be done to make the non-SBs more desirable. For those that need it...

Rhinos would be more popular if Blizzard made a little more effort to make people want them. E.g. add kodos and clefthooves to the family, for one. Giving them a non-stupid looking idle pose for another (e.g. they exist in the same goofy looking perma-crouch used by bears).

Worms? Add an aboveground model for sand crawlers and I guarantee you that family becomes much more popular. Especially were they to add a rare lava worm that was tamable along same general lines as they did for Karoma...

Devilsaurs. Why aren't they more popular? Because Blizzard in all their wisdom ripped out their coolest aspect - monstrous growth. All they'd have to do is restore it as a bonus ability (e.g. cosmetic size increase, maybe restricted to outdoors, etc...)

Shale spiders. Too freakin small to be taken seriously as a tank - mostly only tamed by those who think they're "cute". Make them bigger, and people will want them.

Core hounds are okay, and reasonably popular (being usable as a tame aid doesn't hurt either...)

Silithids. I would think silithids, being simply bigger better spiders, would be popular enough PVP? If not, maybe they just need a cool rare to compete with deth'tilac, solix, et al.

Chimera. I'd think these would be popular as well in PVP...

Etc.

[Lisaara]

I'm gonna go with the 'No' on this one. I like my spirit beasts. They're not broken. Let's leave them alone.

I agree with a lot of Worba's points.

And I'll have you know....I don't just use SBs in dungeons and raids. Hell, I've brought along Karkin, Skarr, and a few others. I always try to give my non-exotics a run.

[Nefretiti]

I for one happen to LIKE spirit mend and don't want to lose it .. .

While I too think Spirit beasts need more diversity I do NOT want to see non exotic versions.
I absolutely lovelovelove my yellow worm so I think its as much what people chose to run with as the talents of the pets themselves.
if I go to a dungeon I make sure to ask the group what kind of buffs may be needed and bring the pets that has the requested buffs as I'm sure most of us do.

Do I feel the need to constantly use my SB because I'm BM , no , I often run with my wolf, my hyena, sometimes Krush and a number of other pets both exotic and not.

sorry if this did not make much sense , my typing skills are not the best and I'm far from good at putting my thoughts into words in a proper way.

[GormanGhaste]

Rhinos would be more popular if Blizzard made a little more effort to make people want them.

When I do use my rhino, I try to be very careful about proper positioning in crowded places. I don't want to see the rhino become more popular!

[TygerDarkstorm]

My post wasn't directed at people who already bring a variety of pets with them. It was directed at this statement (which keeps getting continued, mostly by the same person):

True, but... you just said it yourself, IN raids and dungeons, what do you use?.. SBs.

That statement is implying that the only worthy dungeon and raid pet is a spirit beast.