Hey Noah! It's time to fix Spirit Beasts and Exotics...

[Slickrock]

My post wasn't directed at people who already bring a variety of pets with them. It was directed at this statement (which keeps getting continued, mostly by the same person):

True, but... you just said it yourself, IN raids and dungeons, what do you use?.. SBs.

That statement is implying that the only worthy dungeon and raid pet is a spirit beast.

It is optimal unless you need to bring a raid buff, which is often a dps decrease, wind serpent for example. Spirit beast gives you the optimal dps and a self-heal, so why would you bring something else to raid unless you need the buffs? I'd like to have an exotic WS for when I need to bring that buff.

[Wain]

While your idea is an interesting one, I can't help but feel that it's coming from a place of obsessive-compulsion ('I must collect all spirit beasts and feel troubled that soon there'll be too many to be able to keep a practical stable AND satisfy my obsession') rather than a pure desire to improve the game. I don't mean that maliciously at all. I get caught up in collecting obsessions, as do many (most?) people, but perhaps you're pursuing one that will soon be impractical. Other than that I don't mind your idea at all. I have no personal problems with spirit beasts becoming special pets in the families their models are derived from, though nor do I mind their current classification so much.

[Slickrock]

While your idea is an interesting one, I can't help but feel that it's coming from a place of obsessive-compulsion ('I must collect all spirit beasts and feel troubled that soon there'll be too many to be able to keep a practical stable AND satisfy my obsession') rather than a pure desire to improve the game

Well, it might be part that...

But I've found myself starting to abandon spirit beasts, and it's a shame since they are hard to find in the first place. Also I see BM as a bit gimped still, and this would be one way to fix it (with the concerns about lack of choice afterwards that others have expressed noted).

But with a few more patches and we are up to 20 or so spirit beasts?... yikes.

[CrystalKitten]

Only 20? <.< There are over 30 different cats. There's also 28 unique rare pets that AREN'T spirit beasts... So collectors are still in a bit of a bind...

I don't like the idea of changing them this much. I don't think hunters NEED access to the other pet families. Cause then Blizz would need to come up with something else for BM hunters, as pretty much half of our spec-making attribute would be gone.

I also say that spirit beasts don't really need more utility. As it is I use whatever pet I feel like in dungeons. If all the buffs are covered, any ferocity pet will pull about the same dps if specced the same.

[TygerDarkstorm]

http://elitistjerks.com/f74/t125483-cat ... dwarf_com/
Judging from that, I'd say BM's not really in a bad position at all.
(Please take that with a grain of salt as it's simulation setups, probably in ideal gear and everything, but it made me feel better about BM's situation in PvE.)

[Lisaara]

http://elitistjerks.com/f74/t125483-cat ... dwarf_com/
Judging from that, I'd say BM's not really in a bad position at all.
(Please take that with a grain of salt as it's simulation setups, probably in ideal gear and everything, but it made me feel better about BM's situation in PvE.)

BM is behind MM but not be a severe margin. Scattered Shots had that article, if you remember.

[TygerDarkstorm]

I didn't go and read it as I don't really play my hunter much. I was trying to look up some stuff for her on EJ yesterday as I felt like giving her some attention and happened to run across that; which is basically saying the same thing if you looked at it.

[Lisaara]

Yeah. I recommend you read it. They said BM just needs an extra boost in their plateau or something.

[TygerDarkstorm]

If I played my hunter more seriously, I would probably look into it. As it is, she's one of my alts that I just play around for fun. I took her back to BM PvE spec for when I happen to go dungeoning on her to get myself used to the spec again, but otherwise my warlock is my main raiding character.

[Shade]

My post wasn't directed at people who already bring a variety of pets with them. It was directed at this statement (which keeps getting continued, mostly by the same person):

True, but... you just said it yourself, IN raids and dungeons, what do you use?.. SBs.

That statement is implying that the only worthy dungeon and raid pet is a spirit beast.

It is optimal unless you need to bring a raid buff, which is often a dps decrease, wind serpent for example. Spirit beast gives you the optimal dps and a self-heal, so why would you bring something else to raid unless you need the buffs? I'd like to have an exotic WS for when I need to bring that buff.

I don't raid with my SB at all-I always have my Devilsaur out when I go raiding.

The only loss?

BM would not have some special families that only they have access to (other than the combined spirit beasts / exotics)

And... just no, I cannot say that I like the idea at all. The best thing about Spirit beasts is the diversity of them, you don't have a wolf-like or cat-like spirit beast if you don't like them in general. I don't think I would like your suggestion at all.

There is NOTHING saying that you HAVE to collect all the spirit beasts in game. You choose to do so-nothing makes you. If you want less spirit beast type pets-then stop collecting them.

The thing about being a Beast Master is the ability to have access to all of the exotics. This suggestion pretty much makes BM a worthless spec. I enjoy playing as a BM and hate the MM and SV rotations-I don't want to be anything but a BM. Making the devilsaurs available to MM and SV-because essentially that was what your post was saying, with one of the rare devils being the exotic SB-makes the entire spec pretty much worthless.

No, just no. I might be misreading your intent, but if I'm not-I'd quit the game if they did what I think you are trying to say.

If you are finding yourself with too many SB in your stable, look at them and decide what you don't need. Just because it was hard to tame or find doesn't mean you have to keep it in your stable. AND if you write down the time, date, name and type of pet it is that you abandon, if you ever regret abandoning a SB-or any other pet for that matter-you can ask a GM to restore it to you and have a high chance of success if you have that information available. Just don't abandon a hard to find pet without making a note of that information.

You could always make another hunter and level it high enough to tame them there.

Or just ask blizzard for more stable slots instead of all these complicated changes.

Besides there are other families that need the attention more-foxes, devilsaurs, bats, monkeys, sporebats, core hounds, gorillas, rhinos, shale spiders could all use more diversity in their colors/patterns/skins then such a drastic change to a Hunter Spec that really does not need to be changed at all.

[Slickrock]

No, just no. I might be misreading your intent, but if I'm not-I'd quit the game if they did what I think you are trying to say.

If you are finding yourself with too many SB in your stable,...

Ok, in your honor, I'm starting to delete SBs today. Karoma, Gondria, Skoll are gone. More will follow. Goal is to delete all but two.

[Shade]

No, just no. I might be misreading your intent, but if I'm not-I'd quit the game if they did what I think you are trying to say.

If you are finding yourself with too many SB in your stable,...

Ok, in your honor, I'm starting to delete SBs today. Karoma, Gondria, Skoll are gone. More will follow. Goal is to delete all but two.

Just make note of their names and the time/date that you get rid of anything in case you ever want them to be restored.

I got rid of my Ghostcrawler and Gondria a good while ago after I tamed Banny, Ankah and Magria. You don't have to go down to two only if you like them-keep what you like.

I don't have all of the pet families in my stables, but thats fine with me. I'm no longer a hard core raider and I like what I have. Just go with what makes you happy-when you get to the point that your stables are full, take a look at what you have, consider what you almost never use-because with 25 pets you'll find something that you rarely ever take out of the stable-and let it go. It can be hard, but just debate with yourself what you want more, the new pet you are looking at or the old one that you never use.

I have in my main stable, Shadé's.. 7 Spirit beasts, 5 cats, 2 spiders (though one is a first to throw out if I see something I like better), and 1 each of the following families: fox, silthid, core hound, devilsaur, crab, wolf, bear, rhino, wasp, turtle.

On Kítsune, who is 78, I have... 3 SB, 5 cats, 3 foxes, and one each of the following: wolf, devilsaur, chimera, rhino, raptor, bird of prey, dog, worm, core hound, warp stalker, spider and crocolisk.

Gypsí, a 67 hunter, has... 6 cats, 2 wasps, 2 wolves, 2 bird of prey and one each of the following: bear, spider, crocolisk, fox, warp stalker, hyena, turtle, nether ray, ravager, boar, dog and raptor.

I won't break down my 32 and 27 hunter's stables, but you get the point, I hope. I tend to heavily favor cats and SB, myself. Variety is a great thing in your stables, and I highly recommend just trying everything you can to see what clicks with you the most. My stables are always changing, but thats fine-I have enough stables to go and get a pet on one of my other hunters if I take it off of my main. Just stick with what you really like and don't stress about having so many of any one class.

I know there are holes in my main's stables, and as a BM she is missing a few pets that people consider 'mandatory' for a raiding BM-but bah, I hardly raid anymore and when I do, I tend to stick with my devilsaur more then anything else anyways. My main lacks the things like a hyena or raptor, but I don't really care too much.

And........ I think I'm rambling and not making much sense anymore. I'm so bloody tired from work.

Good luck sorting out your stable. just keep notes on what you get rid of that way you can petition to have them restored if you ever get to the point that you regret a choice.

[Nachtwulf]

Currently SBs fit the template of what is 'expected' of exotics.

Honestly? I almost never use mine, and it's for the reason quoted above; their buff is almost always covered. Cats and SBs alike have the (mis)fortune of bringing a buff that's covered by classes that you're about 90% likely to find in a dungeon group. Sure, that heal has saved my butt while questing a few times (especially in TH) but in a dungeon? Even in trollroics, if I'm taking so much damage I have to rely on my SB's heal, the healer isn't doing their job (or already died) and it's going to be a wipe anyway.

Frankly, the other exotic families need WAY more work. Rhinos? Yeah, I want clefthooves too. They went to all that trouble of adding new skins to old mobs, and we still can't tame them? I already made a comment elsewhere about how all the 'caster slows' and interrupts should be removed and replaced with something more useful (which affects cores). Worm tunneling should not drop aggro (Aggro DROPS on a tenac pet? WHY WHY WHY?!). And yeah, I'd agree that shale spiders (and dogs for that matter) need about a 20-30% boost in size. And to get their running fixed, if that hasn't been yet (I haven't used my Jadefang since they started running weird.)

SBs should not be the ideal pet. They've said that's not been the model for them since the very beginning. They are intended to be 'good enough to use' but not intended for the min-maxers who have to use The Best Pet Evar. Also, they -aren't- a "dps loss" if you bring anything else... as BM, I get more damage out of my ravager, tbh.

Things I use in dungeons (in order of frequency):
Ravager (BM), Windserpent (SV) (if buffs are covered)
Wolf
Raptor
Cat/SB

[Kayb]

I don't know why people say there's gonna be too many SBs. A new one doesn't HAVE to be given to us with each patch, that's just crazy and greedy

But on the original topic, I don't mind either way. I actually don't like or use any SBs so it doesn't matter to me.

Before any changes were made to them I'd rather fix normal pets with issues, such as the Netherray's pointless ability etc etc first

[Kalliope]

Before any changes were made to them I'd rather fix normal pets with issues, such as the Netherray's pointless ability etc etc first

The only family with a 100% useless ability is the rhino bleed debuff, since they're a tenacity pet limited to a tree with no bleeds.

There is nothing wrong with pets with an interrupting ability. It would be fantastic if it was a smart cast, but that's a different request.

[Thwip]

There is NOTHING saying that you HAVE to collect all the spirit beasts in game. You choose to do so-nothing makes you. If you want less spirit beast type pets-then stop collecting them.

This. :3 IMO, the reason we have SO MANY available to us is because not all hunters are the same. We all don't like the same kind of pet models. Some people like Loque while others may like Ghostcrawler. They're giving us an array of options so people can pick those which they like the most. We've just gotten into a bad habit of having to have them all instead.

What started with just four ended up with many more then that. So many it's eating stable space...for pretty models. They're all the same, they all function alike. Having said that, I DO own many of them myself. It's fun to hunt those rares, but it's not necessary to have them all, like I don't have Ghostcrawler. We got into a habit of hanging on to all those Spirit Beasts because they were SO HARD to get ahold of in the first place. It wasn't so bad when there were only four. xD

It's looking more and more like they're just trying to give options for everyone instead of giving people that 'I have to have them all because they are all so shiny' feeling. Which ya know, that's awesome. It's just hard not to want something that catches your eye like they do! I will also stand with the others and say that I do use more then just my SBs. My devils see more dungeon time then my SBs do and I often use a variety of pets while just doing my normal round of dailies and goofing off.

[Harp]

Guess I'm a glutton for punishment. And back again. Because seriously, this discussion, again? Seriously?

So, here's my idea...

1) Remove spirit beasts as a family (don't panic yet, I'm going someplace with this).

No, just no.

2) Make all current exotic families non-exotic, removing the extra talent. (again all, don't panic).

Again no. Why? What sense does this make? A Devilsaur would be no more special than a wolf, and a Silithid nothing more than a mutant spider.

3) Make all the existing Spirit beasts the "exotic" version of that family. (So all the spirit cats and Loque would be the exotic version of the cat family, doing the same with the other spirit beasts)

Why?

4) For the other new "exotic" versions (Karoma, Arcticulus (sp?), etc), add a NEW exotic talent instead of the current Spirit Beast talent.

Which do you mean? Spirit Walk? Spirit Mend? Roar of Courage?

5) Take the old exotic talents, and apply them to one or two rares in each family (so Krush might become the exotic SB of the devilsaur family)

...

No. I didn't tame King Krush to have an exotic spirit beast devilsaur. I tamed King Krush because I wanted a DEVILSAUR. This is like telling anyone who tamed a Ghost Wolf of ye olde wow that suddenly their wolves will now become spirit beasts and to use them they will now have to become Beast Masters. It would ALSO put MORE pressure on rares.

6) Add new exotic talents to the other families, again applied to one or two rares.

So again increasing pressure on camping rares, possible griefing and restricting people to specific rares to camp for specific utilities and abilities.

1) Much more diversity in Spirit Beasts.

Spirit Beasts are already diverse.

2) More access to other pet familes for other hunters

I don't get more access to other shot abilities while being BM...

3) Greater utility for Spirit Beasts

Spirit beasts already have utility. It's called PVP. I always pvp with a spirit beast. I sometimes can get a 20k heal, from my spirit beast. That's pretty useful too.

The only loss?

BM would not have some special families that only they have access to (other than the combined spirit beasts / exotics)

How about this, as I've said again and I'm sure some people have guessed who I am, already.

When Blizzard gives hunters Black Arrow and Chimera Shot, you can have your little spirit beast for SV and MM. And before someone says Exotics aren't like that, they are.

Spirit Beast = Chimera Shot [15ishk heal every 25 seconds]
Worm/Chimera = Black Arrow/Multishot Spam

Also btw, you complain there's to many spirit beasts? People already pointed out other sizes of pet families. I mean hell, we got 5 spiders last patch. Did anyone complain? No? Yes? So who cares.

My former main hunter has 4 Devilsaurs. All a different color. My other main has 4 Madexx. All a different color. Some people just like to collect- you don't need them all.

[Boven]

Blizzard has said in the past that part of the game is having to make choices now and then and I think hunter pets are part of that. Just as you have to decide whether keeping that old neat-looking but obsolete tier set is worth losing a bunch of bank slots, you have to decide whether having every spirit beast is worth giving up other potential pets. I used to have Gondria as well (she was the first spirit beast I ever tamed), but gave her up because I needed space. I've got two spirit beasts in my stable (Arcturis and Skoll). I had to choose which was more important to me at the time.

I'd really rather not see spirit beasts being 'the' BM hunter pet. It'd be too much like the old days when every hunter had a cat or wolf for pve because they were the best pets. I fear that's what we'd be seeing if they were suddenly the best pets for BM hunters. As things are now, you can go through Org or Stormwind and see a whole plethora of pet families following their hunters around. I'd actually feel a little disappointed if it was mostly spirit beasts.

I'm also honestly not a big fan of the look of most of the spirit beasts. I do like Skoll's and Arcturis' skins, but the others really don't do much for me. I'd rather have Krush than a ghostly white devilsaur.

[Nachtwulf]

People complaining that all specs should be able to get exotics are typically just elitist players that believe that because some other spec may be ahead 200dps, or even 1000, that moving to a different spec is only something a complete loser n00b would do, but they want the shiny shiny new toy at the same time.

And it really -is- just because it's shiny, because while SBs do have utility, it's not much more than your basic cat. (the heal's better in pvp than pve, but like I said, I rarely have the need to use it, at least.)

If I had to pick an exotic with great utility, it'd be shale spiders. Remember the days of the gorilladin? Shales are LITERALLY pocket pallies, shy of being able to rez you if you die, and all with infinitely less ass-scratching. (never liked gorillas.) But are the SV/MM hunters whining about shales? No. It's SBs (and maybe Krush).

I echo the sentiment above... when we get Explosive Shot and Black Arrow... then you can have your exotics. Hmm... aren't these the exact same people who were whining about 'wah wah spec homogenization all the specs feel the same Bliz is making the game too simple'? Yeah. I thought so.

[Kalliope]

People complaining that all specs should be able to get exotics are typically just elitist players that believe that because some other spec may be ahead 200dps, or even 1000, that moving to a different spec is only something a complete loser n00b would do, but they want the shiny shiny new toy at the same time.

Heh, that's a blanket statement that can be easily disproved. I dislike the feel of BM spec, but miss my exotic pets. It has nothing to do with dps.

Course, I'm not calling for exotics to be accessible in other specs either. I'm just saying that the assumption of your reasoning is inaccurate.