Cataclysm Class Preview: Hunter

[Palladiamorsdeus]

I actually find that my felguard does less of my demonologist warlocks damage then my BM's -insert pet here- does of my hunter's damage. Which is really odd when you consider cleave and demonic fury. That, and it's two different playstyles. It's similar in the sense that a demonologist relies on their minion for more of they're damage dealt then destruction or affliction, but they don't rely on them in as large a degree, and aren't as crippled when Fluffy the Felguard goes down. Fel domination and master summoner mean very little downtime for those times when accidents happen.

Anyway, my point is, BM needed something like demon bolt. Like Baiting shot, or something. Or like some one said, at LEAST give us a talent in BM that causes Cobra shot to do something similar.

[Kalliope]

Yeah but just one thing Kall;

Cobra shot IS exciting. Even if it appears to be a copy of steady shot, it does NATURE damage, not PHYSICAL damage. This is amazingly exciting. We will be able to unload heavy dps on magic immune AND physical immune targets. Very very few other classes can do that (ret pallies come to mind; that's about it).

They're saying they're gonna make talents into the BM tree to make it our 'shot' when it's still accessable to the other speccs, meaning all hunters will benifit. Does this mean SS buffs are being removed? And if so, where are they being put? Or is the SS buffs being removed completely- along with SS glyph.

I'd assume the SS buffs are going to make their way into the marks tree. The glyph will likely remain, and they'll add an equivalent for BM hunters for cobra shot. It'll be more like rogues and such: you'll spec/glyph for whichever shot is going to help your chosen tree the most optimally. (Surv hunters, btw, already have explosive shot, so maybe they'll be the middle-of-the-road spec? Unsure. Blizz seems to consider them to be the "magical damage" tree, even moreso than BM, which is still the "pet" tree.)

The OTHER THING.

Demo warlocks got an ability, if I remember right, that's Demo only that BUFFS pet damage on a target- yet BM hunters who are pretty much a Demo lock [dependant upon pet to an extent] only get a SHARED shot that gets some buffing, I bet to the extent or a bit more, than SS does atm.

BM hunters already have a TON of talents that buff their pets' passive damage. Ridiculously. I believe Blizzard said they'd be moving some of those talents around so BM hunters can come up with more interesting specs, rather than having to dump points into so many pet-buffing abilities.

Depending on how that goes, we may see a new talent that causes cobra shot to buff pet damage on a target. You know, just to MAKE ABSOLUTELY SURE that's the shot BM hunters are using. Personally, I think the shorter cooldown should be sufficient. If Blizzard changes things enough to warrant a pet-buffing shot, fine. If not, remember that BM pets have more passive buffs than demo lock pets.

[Rhyela]

Next, I have to assume that, if Blizzard truly wants to normalize pets and free hunters to choose what they want to bring, exotic pets limited to beastmasters must be removed from the game. As the game stands now, they're something of an anomaly, because these exotic pets aren't any better than non-exotics. When I'm soloing on my hunter, she runs as beastmaster, but she uses a turtle. Virtually every raiding beastmaster I've seen uses a wolf. So for exotic pets to make any sort of budgeted sense, they have to bring something else -- something more substantial than appearance! -- to the table. And that goes against the very idea of normalization that Blizzard seems to have embraced for Cataclysm. Ergo... so long, exotics!

I have to disagree 100% with this. Even if exotics are nothing more than a unique skin, I absolutely do not want the idea of an exotic pet to go away. Marksman hunters get shots only they can get, survival hunters get things only they can get, why remove something that only beast mastery hunters can get (pets)? Absolutely not. If they did this I would be incredibly upset, especially seeing as how over half (3) of my pets right now in my stables are exotic. It'd be four if I had the heart to let Tetsusaiga go to get something else, but I can't do that to him.

[Mania]

BM hunters already have a TON of talents that buff their pets' passive damage. Ridiculously. I believe Blizzard said they'd be moving some of those talents around so BM hunters can come up with more interesting specs, rather than having to dump points into so many pet-buffing abilities.

*nod* Those are all going into the Mastery system, says Blizzard.

[Yojimbow]

Just so that I'm sure that I'm on the same page...

This new "active" and "stored" pets deal could be likened to, say, Pokemon. You can only have so many on your person at one time, and in order to change them around, you must go to a Stable Master, am I right in assuming this?

If so, that's just wicked sweet.

My only concern is, what exactly does Blizzard consider to be a 'large amount'? 2 more slots? 3? I'm not exactly optimistic that it will truly be a 'large number'.

[punctuation]

Next, I have to assume that, if Blizzard truly wants to normalize pets and free hunters to choose what they want to bring, exotic pets limited to beastmasters must be removed from the game. As the game stands now, they're something of an anomaly, because these exotic pets aren't any better than non-exotics. When I'm soloing on my hunter, she runs as beastmaster, but she uses a turtle. Virtually every raiding beastmaster I've seen uses a wolf. So for exotic pets to make any sort of budgeted sense, they have to bring something else -- something more substantial than appearance! -- to the table. And that goes against the very idea of normalization that Blizzard seems to have embraced for Cataclysm. Ergo... so long, exotics!

I have to disagree 100% with this. Even if exotics are nothing more than a unique skin, I absolutely do not want the idea of an exotic pet to go away. Marksman hunters get shots only they can get, survival hunters get things only they can get, why remove something that only beast mastery hunters can get (pets)? Absolutely not. If they did this I would be incredibly upset, especially seeing as how over half (3) of my pets right now in my stables are exotic. It'd be four if I had the heart to let Tetsusaiga go to get something else, but I can't do that to him.

It's wonderful that you have so many exotic pets now, but I'm not suggesting the removal of exotic pets from the game, just the removal of the "exotic" tag. That is, I think all classes should (and will, if Blizzard is consistent and committed to pet normalization) be able to use the pets known now as "exotic."

Also, as a personal note, I have three exotic pets now, too -- a worm, because I love the way they move; a spirit beast, because it took months to farm; and a devilsaur, because he's pink. I never get to use them, though, because I never raid as BM. If these pets were no longer listed as "exotic," and assuming the pet damage buff normalization actually succeeds, I could start using Ampersand the Devilsaur or Asterisk the Spirit Beast as a marksman or a survivalist.

That said, I do think BM needs something unique to the class... which is why I think, as other people have already said, they need a deep-BM shot comparable to the demolock spell that buffs pet damage on targets. (Cobra shot, I think, is also being earmarked as a BM shot. Marksman will certainly still use steady shot, and I'm not sure which survival will use; I imagine it will depend on talents and gear levels.) But I don't think the BM-only "gift" should be pet classes. Pets are too integral, too signifying a thing to the hunter class -- all hunters! -- to limit certain pets to a single spec.

[punctuation]

Unrelated!

How did all of you make the awesome graphics of your toon walking with his or her pets next to them? I'd like one!

[Saturo]

Yah, that's correct, Yojimbow.

I'm hoping for twenty slots. That's what I consider large. I'm expecting something like ten tough.

Kara makes them in his thread. You'll find that one in the support subforum.

[Karathyriel]

Yep, I am making them.

This is the thread for requests.

[Dweezill]

Is it just me, or does it look like Blizz is trying to make hunters into a crowd control class again? This could be another hint as to what we can look forward to when it comes to new raids. just seems to me, with all the stuff being added, that we are gonna be able to do some wicked CC.

[Nimizar]

Random Camo thought:

Scenario: caster mob refusing to come into tank's AoE
Response: walk up near tank, Distracting Shot/Camo
Result: caster tries to cast at you, fails, wanders over into AoE range where it is easy for the tank to pick up

Assume we can use Camo in combat (and I expect we will) that should work.

Gah, even more obvious: do the same trick with Freezing Trap. So caster trapping option 1 is the Trap Launcher, but option 2 is Camo.

[Palladiamorsdeus]

That was kind of what they were aiming for, Nimizar. Where the mob's have you targeted, but basically can't cast, so they come up in range to melee or cast at you inside the casting range, if any. Smoke bomb will function pretty much the same way, except I THINK smoke bomb will be an AoE.

[Nimizar]

On exotics: the exotic pets are already intended to be only cosmetic. The fact that Blizzard are promising to further normalise pet DPS in Cata shouldn't have any effect on the continued existence of exotic pets (and their restriction to 51-point BM talents). I just hope they add mastery to the pet talents, so the extra pet talent points from Beast Mastery translate directly into increased pet DPS (but in a slightly less clunky way than the current limitations on accessing Wild Hunt and Shark Attack as MM or SV).

[Nimizar]

That was kind of what they were aiming for, Nimizar. Where the mob's have you targeted, but basically can't cast, so they come up in range to melee or cast at you inside the casting range, if any. Smoke bomb will function pretty much the same way, except I THINK smoke bomb will be an AoE.

Oh, I agree. I just hadn't really thought through the PvE applications until just now.

[Palladiamorsdeus]

I don't think a lot of people have. If you think about it, it's perfect for hunters. Camo, distracting shot or just plain unload, then feign when the mob is on top of the tank. Simple, effective, and it isn't to complicated.

[Kalliope]

I would have expected camo to just drop target, like mirror images.

[Rhyela]

It's wonderful that you have so many exotic pets now, but I'm not suggesting the removal of exotic pets from the game, just the removal of the "exotic" tag. That is, I think all classes should (and will, if Blizzard is consistent and committed to pet normalization) be able to use the pets known now as "exotic."..... But I don't think the BM-only "gift" should be pet classes. Pets are too integral, too signifying a thing to the hunter class -- all hunters! -- to limit certain pets to a single spec.

Maybe I'm just greedy, but generally it's hard enough to get an exotic pet right now as it is - say a spirit beast, when it's a rare elite - when you have other BM hunters and achievement-hunters going after them. Then to make these rare elites available to everyone would make these mobs a nightmare to acquire.

I imagine that you're right and that it will happen, but I'm too selfish I guess. I like that only beast masters have access to the super-neat pets that others don't. I'm not saying you're wrong about anything, I want to make that clear. And I wholly understand where you're coming from, but I'm big on pets and being unique. I don't want everyone to have the shiny toys that I have, lol.

[Kalliope]

Can I just point out that not all exotics are difficult to get? It's really just select ones, like Krush, the spirit beasts, and The Beast. You could fill a stable full of unique exotic pets without having to resort to rare spawns or difficult tames.

So generalizing that exotic pets are hard to get is only true when you're resorting to the small pool of hard tames. But as someone who had to wait 19-20 attempts for a ghost saber, I think the mentality of exotics being the hardest tames is inaccurate.

[Rhyela]

Can I just point out that not all exotics are difficult to get? It's really just select ones, like Krush, the spirit beasts, and The Beast. You could fill a stable full of unique exotic pets without having to resort to rare spawns or difficult tames.

So generalizing that exotic pets are hard to get is only true when you're resorting to the small pool of hard tames. But as someone who had to wait 19-20 attempts for a ghost saber, I think the mentality of exotics being the hardest tames is inaccurate.

I'm just the idiot that makes myself go for those hard ones, lol. But you're right, I just waltzed into Shadowmoon Valley for Twinblade, took a stroll through Un'Goro for Surge...... so not all of them are impossible. But the ones that are hard already will be even harder, or at least I would think they'd be.

Really, please understand this is just a weird, quirky, personal thing with me. I was so excited when they made these exotic pets that only I, Rhyela, Master of Beasts, could get. So please take my QQ with a grain of salt and just let me pout about it for a while, I'll get over it eventually. I'll still love all my beasties long after everyone and their mom has them (ok, so I'm likely just exaggerating), but I will miss that feeling of uniqueness.

If nothing else, I pray that they at least let us keep the other part of the 51-point talent, the four bonus points for the pet talent tree. Or maybe I'm just being weird again. X_x

[Kalliope]

*winks at Rhy* I have Krush too; I understand.

I've also tamed a few of the easy ones before, so it keeps things in perspective for me.

Seriously, it's too early to worry. And I *definitely* wouldn't worry about those four talent points. THAT is a feature I expect Blizzard will continue to leave to BM and BM alone. Can do so much more with those points, and for such a small cost (only one talent point). It's what truly separates BM from the other specs to me. Exotic pets will ALWAYS have those points, so they're always "more powerful" by default. (If that makes sense.)