Speculation: Fourth Talent Tree

[Cerah]

I was talking to a Real ID friend of mine today about possible fourth talent trees for every class. How could we all expand into different roles? I think some of the things he and I came up with are kind of cool, and I'd like to hear what everyone here on Petopia thinks too.

Some of our ideas:

Druids -- An easy one. Separate kitty and bear ferals into their own talent trees

Shamans -- bring back Shammy tanking (apparently they were able to do so in Vanilla)

Paladins and/or priests -- ranged DPS tree based on holy spellcasting (I remember seeing the "holy shock" build for some priests back in WotLK). Can you imagine the damage a class like that would do to demons and undead?

Hunters -- a tanking tree using existing (i.e. turtles, beetles, worms) and new (i.e. armadillos, ankylosaurus) speciality tanking pets., with either a strengthening of the existing tenacity pet talent tree, or a new class of pets alltogether. After all, sometimes in the present systems, our pets outtank the tanks as is!

Mage -- a melee DPS "Battle-Mage", similar, though different from an enhancement shaman.

Either Warrior or Rogue -- ranged DPS role based around throwing weapons, similar to the Troll Axethrower units in WCIII

Warlock -- a "dark healer" tree, using nether energies and new kinds of demons (maybe Shivarra priestesses?) to heal, possibly by doing damage to the enemies at the same time. Like expanding a 'lock's Drain Health to include the group.


So what would you do with a theoretical fourth talent tree?

[Highdeath]

I love this idea, but i think that instead of a tanking tree for hunters they should have a mele dps tree, possibly where they take on some aspects of their pets, like for example gaining extra armor from having a turtle ar having an increased crit chance from having a wolf out

[Meggers]

Yeah since shammies wore mail and could equip a shield, coupled with heals and frost shock they tanked half decently. XD

[Worba]

I kind of like those ideas*... if you'd suggested them a year ago I probably would have leaned the other way - at least in theory classes are cooler if they are left "lopsided" (can offer dps and heals but not tank, can offer tank and dps but not heals, etc etc) so as to give an incentive for players to group and offset eachothers' limitations in interesting ways, but...

Druids have always been like this, and now that Call to Arms is out, well it sure would be nice for my hunters to have a way to participate (as tank - we already have 3 DPS trees, if we're gonna add a 4th I'd like it to be a different role)! Also, this is kind of the approach they've taken in Rifts, where each class can spec into any of the major roles (except I think for mages), and it seems to be working well for them.

So I think if Blizzard did this, it would be a good thing on the whole.

*Knife throwers should be rogues.

[Meggers]

Mages can heal/dps in RIFT, just not tank.

[Worba]

That's what I was thinking. Although I did see a pretty cool video of a chloro/lock build who solo'ed a rift (in melee).

[CrystalKitten]

I think this would be kind of cool as well. Actually, to top this off, I've actually had some buddies of mine SAY "it's too bad hunter's can't queue as tanks..." as I've pulled some impressive(in my eyes) tanking with Ardenset (or even with ferocity pets if the healer clued in after the tank died). Not sure how I'd handle bosses with special mechanics... Maybe if the tanking tree came with the return of eyes of the beast, so that you could actually maneuver your pet properly, or take precise control of it's abilities. Not sure how they would balance it so that they didn't also give an extra DPS in groups with a "dps tank" (like hunters) but that's where fiddling with what talents the tree would have would come in, to balance between our dps, pet's dps, and pet's survivability (actually, also in this tree, I'd like an ability I've thought would be nice for a while now.. give us a cooldown that lets us INSTANTLY dismiss a pet.. even if it's dead)

[Worba]

Maybe if the tanking tree came with the return of eyes of the beast, so that you could actually maneuver your pet properly, or take precise control of it's abilities.

I've had similar thoughts myself - return EotB as a core talent of the new hunter tanking tree, and then structure the tree so that it essentially has 2 "stances";

1) EotB. While this is on your talent abilities are a bit more about defense and holding aggro. In this mode the hunter remains usable as a "pet", and you gain access to certain abilities relevant to hardcore/boss mechanic tanking. Your EotB has unlimited duration as long as you remain within 30 feet of yourself - exceed that and a 30 second duration kicks in.

2) Regular (EotB off). The tank spec can still tank like this, but with a bit more emphasis on DPS and a bit less on defense - still can't compete with true DPS specs, this is more of a "trash tanking" mode that lets you do basic tanking while retaining the feel you are more used to.

This way A) hunters have a way to potentially cash in on the Call to Arms, B) not have to wait extended periods for groups if they don't feel like it, C) gives them an option if the current tank is not up to the job and of course D) brings back Eyes of the Beast but in a manner that is relevant and interesting rather than just a fun way to kill time.

[Andine]

I think it would actually make a good special feature for an expansion, though would probably take a lot of time to design and balance them.

Paladins - I'm thinking "holy mage" type of character, ranged DPS (because I'm sick of eating half of boss AoE damage just because of being melee)
Priests - monk-like tank?
Hunters - melee most definitely
Druids - obviously separated bear and cat
Warlocks - like a poster mentions above, "shadow healer" type of character
Warriors - honestly, no idea - ranged?
Rogues - evasion tanking
Death Knights - another "shadowy healer"?
Mages - "ranged tank", who kites his targets around?
Shamans - perhaps another class which would get a tank tree.

[Worba]

I've seen a lot of ideas that look both fun and interesting, but there is a 3rd factor that Blizzard would be weighing just as heavily - where does it fit in e.g. what does a given class bring the group now, and what could be done with a 4th spec to spread the roles around and reduce "role bottlenecking".

Druids and paladins already have all 3 roles covered, so I could easily see them getting shockadins and a cat/bear split (among other things, splitting ferals could give Blizzard an opportunity to start giving bears actual tank stats so that they fit better into the new loot priority system).

And I don't think they'd consider it a necessity for a given class to cover all 3 roles, but 2 would be good to shoot for.

So for example we might see a melee battlemage, but it might well be a tank (using magical shields), since that class is currently all DPS. Same idea with melee hunters, if they went that route instead of a tank pet (in that case they might use a "damage sharing system" similar to the warrior pet class in rifts, or etc).

[Kayb]

I think I'd rather see a pure PVP spec tree. Could possible help reduce the harm that PVP changes can do to PVE players, and vice versa

[Redith]

Definatly melee for hunters, and I love the idea of throwing specialist for rogue.

After all the horde has one hunter whos specialty is melee anyway.(Kudos to anyone who can name who that is)

[Worba]

Definatly melee for hunters, and I love the idea of throwing specialist for rogue.

After all the horde has one hunter whos specialty is melee anyway.(Kudos to anyone who can name who that is)

You Rexxar.

[Redith]

Definatly melee for hunters, and I love the idea of throwing specialist for rogue.

After all the horde has one hunter whos specialty is melee anyway.(Kudos to anyone who can name who that is)

You Rexxar.

Lol I appreciate that

[cowmuflage]

I don't think hunters should get a tanking spec. Maybe a melee one.

[Skeeter]

Hunter should be petless, pure archer class, melee wouldnt be too much different than being a warrior or ret pally as it is, it would require way too many new skills to make attractive and efficient, but with a few stat tweaks, archers could be super assassins, specialized for behind the line combat, ex: Increases the damage of steady shot by 300% but also increases the cast time by 100%

turns us into scary nukes, the spec would reduce out ability to deal damage while kiting, but increase our damage output while standing (and being further away), i think it would be fun as heck to

idk, my friend has always wished hunter never relied to much on their pet, i however love them, but a nice change of gameplay is always a good boredom killer (haha anyone who tries new weapon combos on TF2 gets my idea)

[Worba]

I think a petless sniper would work much better with existing class mechanics and vision, my only reservation about it is that, like a melee DPS, it just adds one more DPS to a class that already has 3. E.g. fun=yes, interesting=yes, diversifies class roles=no.

If I had to go with a 4th DPS of some kind though, I'd take petless sniper over melee DPS.

[Gimlion]

I've personally wanted a Hero class like a Ranger for a while. I'd imagine them with a melee spec, a spec like the above-mentions "Sniper" spec, and maybe one more, idk. But I think it would end up really neat.

As for 4th specs, I'd love to tank on my Shaman... xD

[Andine]

The thing about "snipers" is they still need to stay away in range. How do they stay away in range if there isn't anything to keep the mob's attention away? You can't have them put up enough DPS to just kill the thing before it reaches them, because it would be unbalanced as hell. Kiting doesn't work as it used to, and certainly is not for everyone - and we need to draw attention of any sorts of people towards the new feature.

[Redith]

The thing about "snipers" is they still need to stay away in range. How do they stay away in range if there isn't anything to keep the mob's attention away?

Mages do it all the time