Female Pandaren

[Teigan]

I agree that red pandas are absolutely adorable. And I'm all for a cinnamon colored panda BEAR. But not a cinnamon colored fox-weasel-racoon.

[Chimera]

i wouldnt mind them being panda bear size but the colorings and have their wee tiny tail striped XD

[Zuilu]

Yeah..no..panda bears are not the same species as red pandas, and to me they don't even remotely look like the same species. Red pandas were previously identified in the same family as raccoons but now have their own seperate family, where it shows they are only related to extinct animals. They're absolutely adorable, and I don't mind the pandaren to have a red colouration, but to base them off of the red panda that isn't even a bear would be silly. And I think the "Its a fantasy game" isn't a valid arguement, we at least have some realism here.
Perhaps if it was a very similar species it would be understandable, like..say they based female worgen off type A of wolf and males off of type B of wolf, but c'mon. They look nothing alike and are entirely different sizes..a red panda is nearly the size of a house cat. Maybe the confusion sprouted because both species eat bamboo.

[CrystalKitten]

Maybe the confusion sprouted because both species eat bamboo.

This is actually what it was We learned BRIEFLY about this in my genetics class. I think the red panda's closest relatives are actually weasles. The controversy sprung up because the bamboo diet is HIGHLY irregular, since bamboo is very low in nutrients. It's pretty much against the law of simplicity that a digestive system able to get everything the animal would need would evolve TWICE, independently (but, that rule is broken sometimes, obviously).

[Lisaara]

They look similar though and yeah, your last line was what I was about to say. XD There could be different appearances of the pandaren.

How do they look similar? The way a weasel looks like a grizzly in that they are both mammals?

Patterns in their fur and the fact they both look bear-like(Well one is more of a mini bear even if its not classified as one). Also they both eat bamboo if I'm not mistaken.

But to each their own. I'm not sure where sizes or anything saying 'oh they're the same' came from. I only said they share some similarities.

I, however, am all for A FANTASY GAME to adapt A FANTASY RACE into however they wish to. If they wanna combine red pandas and giant pandas, then go for it cause it looks good. It baffles me people always wanna compare RL to a fantasy, cartoony game. We might as well remove...well EVERY race if you wanna go realistic cause none of these races except humans exist.

But thats my stance and I'm proudly stickin to it. :3

[Teigan]

Maybe the confusion sprouted because both species eat bamboo.

This is actually what it was We learned BRIEFLY about this in my genetics class. I think the red panda's closest relatives are actually weasles. The controversy sprung up because the bamboo diet is HIGHLY irregular, since bamboo is very low in nutrients. It's pretty much against the law of simplicity that a digestive system able to get everything the animal would need would evolve TWICE, independently (but, that rule is broken sometimes, obviously).

And they also have evolved "thumbs" similar to giant pandas! Go go convergent evolution! (But it still doesn't make them panda bears )

[Rower]

Just make them smaller in height and give them some long hair. All other options will be horrific IMO, like female worgen.

[Zuilu]

Y'know..there is such thing as realistic fantasy. E.G, Blizzard gives us detailed lore on all races, particularily forsaken and how they function.

But there's a large stretch between corpse reanimation (which some people believe exists irl)
And two completely unrelated species of -vast- size differences breeding a sustainable race. Even if red pandas and the giant panda could cross breed, the offspring would likely be left infertile.

So I think we should stick with an optional red fur colour rather than modeling ONE gender after that.

[Lisaara]

Y'know..there is such thing as realistic fantasy. E.G, Blizzard gives us detailed lore on all races, particularily forsaken and how they function.

But there's a large stretch between corpse reanimation (which some people believe exists irl)
And two completely unrelated species of -vast- size differences breeding a sustainable race. Even if red pandas and the giant panda could cross breed, the offspring would likely be left infertile.

So I think we should stick with an optional red fur colour rather than modeling ONE gender after that.

Again I point out....fantasy. Why is it so bad for a PANDAREN race to have red fur? Just because irl they arent the same?

[Rhyela]

I don't think it's the fur color they're talking about, but the build and general shape of red pandas and how they don't even look remotely similar to an actual bear. Even the faces are vastly more raccoon-like or weasel-like than bear-like. That and...the tail. I don't think people are saying, "NO REDDISH PANDAREN FEMALES RAWR!" just that we very much hope that Blizz doesn't try to model the general shape and body off of the red panda when they are quite obviously very different than good ol' panda bears. Hope that clarifies it a little.

[Lisaara]

I don't think it's the fur color they're talking about, but the build and general shape of red pandas and how they don't even look remotely similar to an actual bear. Even the faces are vastly more raccoon-like or weasel-like than bear-like. That and...the tail. I don't think people are saying, "NO REDDISH PANDAREN FEMALES RAWR!" just that we very much hope that Blizz doesn't try to model the general shape and body off of the red panda when they are quite obviously very different than good ol' panda bears. Hope that clarifies it a little.

It just seems like the are. XD So I'm like "Whats wrong with that?"

Noo the body shape I agree shouldnt be done(Well maybe the face cause it looks feminine), But the color should be an option.

[Teigan]

Reality. It is subject to change

[Zuilu]

I think...all 3 of us that were arguing said we'd like a red panda skin. it's like you just skim over all the messages :\ Especially when I just said "There is such thing as realistic fantasy"
And your retort was pointing out that it is a fantasy game.
Yes, it's fantasy. But fantasy doesn't have to mean things have no logical explanation and make no sense, unless the game is deliberately a nonsensical genre which it clearly is not.

So I personally said: "and I don't mind the pandaren to have a red colouration, but to base them off of the red panda that isn't even a bear would be silly."

Teigan also said: "And I'm all for a cinnamon colored panda BEAR. But not a cinnamon colored fox-weasel-racoon."

No one's arguing that they shouldn't get colour variations, we just don't want frail, tiny females that don't resemble panda bears.

[CrystalKitten]

The colour, yes. The marking pattern...? Not so much. I'm sure there'll be some stylization, but really.. the red panda markings look nothing like giant pandas. If however, there were some mutation (so.. colour option) for the white, or black parts to be reddish (and MAYBE in the case of the white being red, let the black be white) sure. That would be absolutely okay in my eyes (afterall, there has to be SOME option for their customization).

The reason why I'd be against the specific marking pattern of the red panda being useable for the breed based off the giant panda.. is that the patterns of an animal are often one defining aspect of it being it's own species. Allowing the red panda markings would make them look, to me, COMPLETELY unrelated, as in.. incapable of sustaining their race due to being able to make offspring (or those offspring being infertile). It would maybe even be enough to turn me off the Pandaran race.. It would just be too bad I wouldn't be able to stop myself from viewing all the ones people would make..

As a subnote... animal... ignorance we'll say is probably one of my pet peeves <.< I know it doesn't matter, but I've been very much into animals as long as I can remember.. and EVERY time I hear someone call a red squirrel a chipmunk.. or the thompsons gazelle the female Kudu at the zoo.. I just wanna literally /facepalm and be all "umm.. no... it's _____ and this is why" and pretty much go into a lecture explaining the difference <.< So seeing markings for a totally unrelated species on one that's CLEARLY an anthropomorphised giant panda would just.. make me wanna tear my hair out. as not only would it not make genetic sense, it would further the misconception that red pandas are related to giant pandas... If Pandaran were a completely made up bear-like race, sure.. no problem. But.. They aren't. They're outright anthropomorphised pandas.. Even their name says so, haha.

And, that's about all I have to explain why red-panda pandarans would be a bad idea So I'll drop that aspect now lest this turn into a circular debate, heh. If anyone cares to debate it further, feel free to PM me.

tldr; What Zuilu said.

[Teigan]

I think...all 3 of us that were arguing said we'd like a red panda skin. it's like you just skim over all the messages :\ Especially when I just said "There is such thing as realistic fantasy"
And your retort was pointing out that it is a fantasy game. .

Quoted for truth. And changing the meaning at a later date of what one said in the past does not erase it. Just sayin.

[Holgarr]

Brace yourselves - incoming long post...


Ugh, the ignorance of some forumgoers makes me want to punch wisdom into their faces until their enlightened teeth litter the floor.

http://www.sonsofthestorm.com/viewer.ph ... nal&art=28
People keep posting this pic as "proof" of slender Pandaren females... why? Those are not the Pandaren of WoW, otherwise they would be in the Warcraft section, not Samwise's personal work.
Those are Pandyr, Samwise's personal heavy-metal/nordic based creation. They are not the peaceable Asian-inspired Pandaren and in fact are wholly unrelated to WoW in any fashion.
On top of that, that female appears based on a Red Panda, not a Giant Panda - Red Pandas are named "panda" because they have similar facial-marking patterns to the giant panda. They are actually related to raccoons and squirrels, not the giant panda or any form of bear. Having them be the model for Pandaren females would be like having the Tauren females based on giraffes.

From the RPG books (who, while non-canon in many aspects related to individuals and locations, is still deemed as being mathematically valid with regard to racial measurements and lifespans):
The typical pandaren male is between 5 feet and 6 feet in height and weighs between 200 to 300 pounds.
Pandaren females are similar in stature, with slighter, more feminine builds, being from 160 to 240 pounds.
Sorry, elf-lovers, canon says Panda girls got plenty of meat on dem bones.

Now take a look at this. http://rufftoon.deviantart.com/art/Sweet-Moves-46848139
No it's not a Panda, but when I see the male model I automatically think of that. Anyone who thinks you have to be a gymnast or a bodybuilder to use your body is sorely mistaken. People of all types have quite a number of skills that would surprise you.
I can oh-so-easily see a Pandaren male and child in their places.
And now I'm hoping a Toph-style bun-and-bangs hairdo is an option for females.


Sorry for the long vent, but after browsing so many pandaren/fat hate threads elsewhere, I needed to let off steam.

[Zuilu]

And changing the meaning at a later date of what one said in the past does not erase it. Just sayin.

What? :<

[dragonaa]

pandas themself are not bears eather i know red pandas and and panda bears are not related but pandas are not related to bears eather like kowala bears they have been miss named

[Chimera]

Erm.. sorry but wikipedia says otherwise ^^;;

/quote

The giant panda, or panda (Ailuropoda melanoleuca, literally meaning "black and white cat-foot")[2] is a bear[3] native to central-western and south western China.[4] It is easily recognized by its large, distinctive black patches around the eyes, over the ears, and across its round body. Though it belongs to the order Carnivora, the panda's diet is 99% bamboo.[5] Pandas in the wild will occasionally eat other grasses, wild tubers, or even meat in the form of birds, rodents or carrion. In captivity they may receive honey, eggs, fish, yams, shrub leaves, oranges, or bananas along with specially prepared feed.[6][7]

/unquote

[Holgarr]

pandas themself are not bears eather i know red pandas and and panda bears are not related but pandas are not related to bears eather like koala bears they have been miss named

Nope.

Kingdom: Animalia
Phylum: Chordata
Class: Mammalia
Order: Carnivora
Family: Ursidae
Genus: Ailuropoda
Species: A. melanoleuca

They're bears. Big bamboo-eating monochromatic bears.