Multiple Bans in Top Guilds

[AdamSavage]

Serves them right! There not very smart if they thought that:

A. Blizzard wouldn't catch on
B. They would get away with it.
C. Failed to remember that, Blizzard keeps a very close on the raids on patch launch for this very same reason.

==>Source<==

Every patch has its bugs and 4.3 was no exception apparently.

When 4.3 hit last week, the Looking for Raid feature brought joy to many pugs and now it's also now bringing misery to quite a few hardcore guilds. As it turns out, there was a loot bug with the LFR system and master looting. Instead of reporting them, however, most people chose to exploit it to keep their competitive edges. Members of many top guilds in the world such as Paragon and Method queued up multiple times through a loophole that allowed them to get loot again and again. While LFR is supposed to limit players to be eligible for loot only their first run through, this loophole allowed them to repeatedly farm for early tier 13 bonuses to give them that extra boost in PvE content.

The end result? Many players opened their emails to find themselves with an 8 day ban, just in time for the holidays--and progression farming. Heroics unlock this Tuesday and this was going to be the last epic push for progression hardcore raiders before Mists of Pandaria. Now many of these guilds now have entire rosters banned, along with their new gear removed. If the bans stick, this should greatly affect world rankings this tier.

Blizzard has yet to release an official statement, but hopefully they will soon.

So what do you think? Did they get what they deserved--or is an 8 day ban a little too severe for some 384 ilevel loot? Did you exploit or do you know anyone who did? On a personal level, a lot of my friends were banned, so this is turning out to be an interesting night.

[Kalliope]

I heard about this before the bans got handed out. It's sad that they thought they could get away with bug abuse on that large a scale and that their common sense was deterred by the need to be first (for all the various reasons).

There's a certain degree of testing that goes on in the true endgame progression, and therefore some leeway is given, but it sure doesn't apply to this. Morally justified decision on Blizzard's part.

[Kayb]

Its absolutely deserved, and about damn time some of those uber end ranking players were given some smack down. It's sad to see it was only 8 days though, shoulda been a month.

[Melentari]

When you do something that is an obvious exploit, you get what you get. I have absolutely no problem with this ban, honestly. They should've known what was going on wasn't happening as intended.

[cowmuflage]

Well if you exploit a bug you get banned it's what any one who exploit's things should get.

[Talaridan]

I think 8 days is reasonable.

Honestly, they did something a little sneaky, but they didn't 'cheat' exactly so much as find a loophole that Blizzard, let's be honest, should have caught. Players use loopholes all the time, like the Feign Death trick in AN in Northrend.

Now granted, IF they knew, they should have reported, but before reading this.... I had no idea. I don't really read the patch-notes in depth to be honest. I just skim the parts I'm interested in. I'm not saying they knew or didn't know. I have no idea, I'm just saying I personally didn't know, so I could believe at least some of them were unaware it was breaking a rule.

I think a week's worth of banning is acceptable considering they did not hack, use outside sources to 'cheat', and just kind of wiggled through a hole that granted they shouldn't have, but also that should have been caught in PTR. I'm not knocking Blizzard. I honestly think 95% of the time they do a great job, which is why I give them money every month.

Just saying, it's unfair to pin all the blame on people who may or may not have even realized they were using the loophole. Plenty of people use whatever loopholes they can find to tame pets they aren't really supposed to (like the fire raptor for example) and no one here condemns them. It's kind of hypocritical to blame raiders for using raid loopholes, but not hunters for using hunter loopholes.

[Chimera]

Blizzard slipped up, but its the players who took advantage of it. I dont feel any sympathy for those who actively exploit blizzards mistakes for their own gain when it causes the game to become unbalanced. Taming creatures with an appearence buff, no reason to be banned unless its one with a damage dealing buff and at that rate, it should be a warning and a polite request to not tame another (blizz obviously will remove the buff or the creature entirely from the hunter) but this is a good reason for getting banned. They knew what they were getting into when they were farming gear.

Even if the first few times were innocent and they happened to notice they were getting gear when they shouldn't have, the fact they kept it up to, possibly, acquire entire sets is greedy intent and an 8 day ban is a reasonable amount of time. They will be back in time for Winter Veil, its not like they're going to be missing out on anything, so they have little to complain about except how they could have that game time to grind whatever they grind normally in terms of currency and RP and all that and what to do with themselves while they twiddle their fingers in wait.

I only feel sorry for Blizzard who had to take the time to do this and the people who are in these guilds that now have to pug with other people cause of their guildies greed. Especially because heroics unlock tomorrow.

[Sigrah]

I think they knew full well it was an exploit. Blizzard has said on multiple occasions from the time they announced the LFR feature a few months back to the FAQ posted on patch day last week that "players would only eligible to win loot from a boss once per week", regardless of how many times they ran LFR. No matter how anyone tries to spin it, the intention was clear that Blizzard did not want you getting more than one piece of loot from a particular boss in a given week via LFR.

As for the idea that "Blizzard should've made sure the exploit wasn't available in the first place", I can agree with that sentiment, but it doesn't let the people who exploited it off the hook. I mean, in real life if the person in front of you were to leave their card in an ATM machine, and you decided to help yourself because they forgot to take their card, you're still guilty of stealing from them even though they were stupid and didn't take better care of their card. For the LFR scenario, these players were very experienced hard core raiders who know (or should know) that you're not supposed to have your 4 set bonus and near best in slot for everything else (Normal or LFR wise) a couple of days after a new raid goes live. I honestly can't give these people the benefit of the doubt on this one, and they are lucky it's only 8 days and not longer.

[AdamSavage]

The battle net site for some is showing them this..

[Talaridan]

Oh, no, I don't disagree that they need to be punished. I'm not saying let them off the hook. I'm just saying, I think 8 days is fair and will give them a good warning.

As to the pets...an exploit is an exploit in the video game world, at least in my opinion. If you're using a loophole to get something you shouldn't have...you are. There are not really lesser degrees. Several of the pets had odd advantages, such as the 'living fire' couldn't be targeted properly, etc.

I'm not preaching at anyone about what they should or shouldn't do, but I'm just saying, it is a video game. An exploit is an exploit. It is not really the same as robbing someone of their money or anything. It is comparing apples to oranges.

I am not saying let them keep the ill-earned gear, nor am I saying they shouldn't get punished. They should. I just don't really see it as being so much worse than using timing, loopholes, and tricks to get something tamed that shouldn't. Both are things Blizzard did not want you to have for whatever reason. Both are using 'cracks' in the system to get it anyway. Just my opinion, take it with a grain of salt and no ill intent meant toward anyone here.

[Hesantia]

I may be way wrong on this, but it feels like Blizzard has even more scouts on what the "big" guilds do, so I would never have done this if I were one of them... and as a top guild you should state an example, not scream out that you are the best because you cheat the game over and over.

I think 8 days are pretty fair, and I bet it feels more like a month to those players

[Dewclaw]

I agree with the punishment. Hopefully it will deter this sort of behavior in the future.

[Mychelle]

8 days might be a little "severe"? lol....

I would say hit them with two weeks at least. They purposely cheated the game to get an edge, those "hard core" players should have easily figured out what they were doing was wrong. This isnt just some random player who didnt know what he was doing was against the rules. These people who should have known better were just taking advantage. I hope they get cheated out of progression this entire tier for trying to pull this crap. All I can say is Shame on you, Hard core guilds. Your getting off easy.

[Worba]

The battle net site for some is showing them this..

I'm assuming those who got a perma-ban from this had prior offenses...

Otherwise I think it depends on the severity of the exploiting - e.g. just someone who ran it 2-3 times with no past history of violations? Could have been someone who didn't know there was supposed to be a limit - most people here didn't know about it, and Blizzard needs to accept some degree of responsibility for their own failure.

But for someone who was doing it like 5-6+ times in a row, yeah 8 day ban is fine.

[Roxhunt]

Now granted, IF they knew, they should have reported, but before reading this.... I had no idea. I don't really read the patch-notes in depth to be honest. I just skim the parts I'm interested in. I'm not saying they knew or didn't know. I have no idea, I'm just saying I personally didn't know, so I could believe at least some of them were unaware it was breaking a rule.

Just saying, it's unfair to pin all the blame on people who may or may not have even realized they were using the loophole. Plenty of people use whatever loopholes they can find to tame pets they aren't really supposed to (like the fire raptor for example) and no one here condemns them. It's kind of hypocritical to blame raiders for using raid loopholes, but not hunters for using hunter loopholes.

I agree with Raun because I can tell you, I, myself, have not read anything on the LFR, I didn't know that you only got gear one time a week off the bosses, etc. I know this now ONLY because I read it here. I will also say that I'm not someone that has been banned for exploiting the LFR bug and as far as that goes, I haven't used it at all ..... yet. I hardly ever que and look to see what my 'rewards' for queing are: such as extra valor/justice/honor points, etc. If I hadn't read it here, I would have thought I could run the raids and got gear as many times as the LFR would let me in. Stupid? probably but I honestly do not read the forums, patch notes, etc unless I'm looking for something or I'm skimming to see what pertains to one of my character's class, professions, etc. I just play and learn as I go. Therefore, when you state they knew because its' been posted here or there, is simply your opinion and not a fact.

Exploiting is exploiting. Sorry, I don't think Blizz should ban them for Blizz's error. I do think they should take the extra gear away from them though just like they did us hunters with the fire flamingo/raptor.

[Suicune]

It wasn't that they went 'Oh hey, I can loot from this boss even though I already did!', it was 'Let's have a plan to rotate one of the 25 raiders out each time we run this, drop group, re-invite and send loot out!'. It was a planned thing that they did to circumvent the loot rules in place. They deserve the ban that they got- 8 days is nothing. Set back on progression? Oh well, do it the legit way then. Cheaters never prosper

As for the perma-banned accounts, that sucks, but if they turned out that way due to multiple offenses? How is playing fairly a bad thing? Punishment needs to be dealt or you end up getting a free for all crap fest which results in larger droves of unsatisfied players than the game has now. Wrist slaps are perfectly fine for lesser offenses, but that was a full blown circumvention of rules which were made perfectly clear before the system went live. It wasn't a visual appearance trick or something silly which has no effect on gameplay, but something which would boost them unfairly above anyone who didn't do the exploit.

I do feel sorry for the people who got perma-banned, but if you truly care about your account and characters and all of the effort put into them, then be careful to play by the rules, especially if you screwed up before : /

[Worba]

It wasn't that they went 'Oh hey, I can loot from this boss even though I already did!', it was 'Let's have a plan to rotate one of the 25 raiders out each time we run this, drop group, re-invite and send loot out!'.

Ah OK. Thanks for clearing that up - then yes, they knew what they were doing and definitely got what they deserved.

[Roxhunt]

It wasn't that they went 'Oh hey, I can loot from this boss even though I already did!', it was 'Let's have a plan to rotate one of the 25 raiders out each time we run this, drop group, re-invite and send loot out!'. It was a planned thing that they did to circumvent the loot rules in place.

I'm sorry. I don't know everyone on the forums so this may be a dumb question but you know this is fact, how? If you are a Blizz GM, was this information obtained by 'chat' between the players? I'm just curious...

Again, sorry...I don't know everyone here

[Worba]

It wasn't that they went 'Oh hey, I can loot from this boss even though I already did!', it was 'Let's have a plan to rotate one of the 25 raiders out each time we run this, drop group, re-invite and send loot out!'. It was a planned thing that they did to circumvent the loot rules in place.

I'm sorry. I don't know everyone on the forums so this may be a dumb question but you know this is fact, how? If you are a Blizz GM, was this information obtained by 'chat' between the players? I'm just curious...

Again, sorry...I don't know everyone here

One of the top offenders from Paragon issued a mea culpa here...

http://www.paragon.fi/news/lfr-apology

[Sigrah]

It wasn't that they went 'Oh hey, I can loot from this boss even though I already did!', it was 'Let's have a plan to rotate one of the 25 raiders out each time we run this, drop group, re-invite and send loot out!'. It was a planned thing that they did to circumvent the loot rules in place.

I'm sorry. I don't know everyone on the forums so this may be a dumb question but you know this is fact, how?

Manaflask.com has an article posted on their site outlining the primary exploit that was being done to get multiple pieces of loot per boss. You can read about it *HERE*. When you read how the main exploit was being done, there's little question that the people involved knew it was an exploit. There's just too much planning involved to pull it off, and for any of them to come out now and try to say "We just thought we were being creative" or "We didn't really know it was an exploit" or "Other elite guilds were doing it, so we felt we had to do it too so we could keep up" (my personal favorite excuse btw) is just disingenuous.

On a side note, if the moderators here feel the link to that article should be out of bounds, by all means feel free to break it and/or remove it. I just felt it would help settle the debate and doubts about why the people that did this were given suspensions and whether they were doing it intentionally or not.