Does anyone else think Dragonsoul is kindergarten mode?

[pengupuff]

Don't get me wrong, I like the atmosphere of DS well enough... but I think it's too easy. I mean, I hail from Skywall. You can look us up, we're on the bottom of the barrel in terms of progression, but one of our guilds (possibly more by now) has already killed Deathwing. I haven't personally seen the Deathwing fight, but I breezed through the first wing with my raiding group. We went in with little knowledge and wiped maybe twice? Not only are the first four boss fights pretty easy, but to have such little trash, even the in-between mobs are super easy without any major mechanics. I mean, there's an ideal kill order for the tentacles in the General Veezax ripoff's room, but if you kill them out of order it's not like it's a big deal.

One glaring thing I noticed is there isn't a big penalty for screwing up what little mechanics there are. On the ping pong fight you have some leeway with how long you can bounce the ball back and forth before letting it hit the boss. On the EoE fight with the shaman chick you have an infinite amount of time to chain the lightening around the room, so even if people are derping around you can still get through it easily as long as the healers are competent. I mean, I like downing content, but I also like feeling that I've earned the boss kill. I've had way more trouble with most of the FIrelands bosses than I've had with the first wing of DS.

Take Blood Queen Lanathel from ICC for example. The biggest mechanic in that fight is the vampire mode; after you're bitten by a vampire, there comes a time when you have 10 seconds to bite someone else. 10 seconds is more than enough time to target someone and push the only button available on your action bar, so it's reasonable that if you fuck this up, you become mind controlled and wipe the raid. Yes, it's annoying when you wipe, but if you actually have to TRY and FOCUS it makes the victory so much sweeter.

I know a lot of you are going to come in and say that I'm crazy and that you're happy you can do a full clear of Dragonsoul in quest blues, but this is THE FINAL RAID OF THE EXPANSION. It's supposed to be epic content that is more challenging than the raids before it, and in that respect it failed miserably. Yes, the environment is pretty. Yes, the characters are neato. But the content itself is EZmoad.

I'm not elitist. I don't get off to big numbers on DPS charts. I'm not in an MLG Pro SRS MODE hardxcore guild. I've never felt this way before. I come from a bad server with bad progression and pugs who cannot work together. Based on this, I should not have been able to skip merrily through the first 4 bosses like they were bunnies.

[Kalliope]

In fairness, Blood Queen wasn't in the first wing. If you want to make a comparison with ICC, compare the shaman to Saurfang.

On that note, yes, the progression on the first four bosses (especially considering that ICC had more bosses) on normal mode is considerably easier than it was in ICC. It took pugs a lot longer to get through the first wing properly.

[Wassa]

The new raid is extremely easy. On our server, an RP server with very few raiding guilds, we had a guild kill Deathwing on the very first day! I think Blizzard didn't like how difficult the past two raids were for casual raiding guilds, and want as much people to kill Deathwing as possible. Heroic Dragon Soul will be for us more dedicated raiders.

I was also disappointed at how easy this raid is, and so was my guild as after the first three bosses being one-shot we decided to go back to Firelands for more of a challenge and finish the legendary staff for our mage. However, it is a nice relaxing change of pace. Hoping the heroic modes are a challenge to balance this out.

After the first four bosses it does get harder. The gunship battle has a lot less leeway for mistakes. You can let one sapper into the ship, but if another gets in you instantly wipe. Spine of Deathwing is similar.

[Kalliope]

*nods to Wassa* The fifth boss, Ultraxion, is fairly simple in design on normal, but can be fouled up very very easily by accident. It's a strange thing how a fight can be easy, yet so punishing. It'll be a lot less punishing once everyone's geared, but that'll take a bit.

That's definitely my favorite fight so far....although admittedly, it's a healer fight.

[Vephriel]

It seems like Blizzard was really back-and-forth on the difficulty level of content for this expansion, and we've ended up with varying degrees of hard and easy. I'm not too bothered by it overall, I've enjoyed all the content, and my guild currently is having fun with Dragon Soul as a breath of fresh air from Firelands. It certainly seems a bit easier, and I agree it's odd to have the final raid of an expansion be less challenging than a previous one, but I'm alright either way. Cataclysm's largely been testing the waters on many aspects, and it's always seemed a bit clunky for a number of reasons. By MoP I think Blizzard might have a better idea of what they want to do and won't be changing their mind as much.

[Unggoy]

It's easy because it's normal mode. It is in no way designed to be the pinnacle of raiding. We'll see how truely easy it is or isn't next week with the Heroic modes.

[Lisaara]

It's easy because it's normal mode. It is in no way designed to be the pinnacle of raiding. We'll see how truely easy it is or isn't next week with the Heroic modes.

^ This

If you want hard, do heroic. Let us casuals have some fun too.

[AdamSavage]

It's easy because it's normal mode. It is in no way designed to be the pinnacle of raiding. We'll see how truely easy it is or isn't next week with the Heroic modes.

Actually, Normal mode is what you would do with your guild. The easy mode would be the LFG mode, I think you pretty much need it to be easier due to the fact your puging it. Nobody will have the patience to do all 4 bosses if it was harder really.

[Lazurianis]

LFR Dragonsoul is easy yes. It is very possible you can go through it all the time, but if you pug it server w.o quening it is much harder. They remove Berserk timers from LFR so, to be honest DS is very hard in Non LFR.

[Moore]

I tanked the newest instances (non raids) with my paladin I really had no clue what to do and had to have someone explain them to me. But it was really really easy even on those heroics. They were easier than all the other heroics o.o. I haven't tried the raids yet but I wish blizzard would let you LFR the older raids too bwd/throne etc.

[meepitco]

:nods: The normal raid isn't that easy, at least to me. I have yet to do LFR. And honestly, first time I did End Time, I had to do hour glass. Pretty easy other than I dc'd at the end of it -_-

[Bulletdance]

I don't normally raid. I've done a few bosses here and there,but even I was surprised. The first time I did LFR I didn't die until Deathwing and only once there and I didn't even need explanations on the fights. I'd like to think I'm just awesome,but I don't think so...lol I think they could stand to be just a little harder,but nothing too much more imo. For people who have always raided they must be really bored if I can do it once and go...I've got this.

[Vephriel]

I don't normally raid. I've done a few bosses here and there,but even I was surprised. The first time I did LFR I didn't die until Deathwing and only once there and I didn't even need explanations on the fights. I'd like to think I'm just awesome,but I don't think so...lol I think they could stand to be just a little harder,but nothing too much more imo. For people who have always raided they must be really bored if I can do it once and go...I've got this.

Hee, don't worry, LFR is on its own level. While normal Dragonsoul is still simpler than past raids, it's not comparable to the ease of LFR. That one's made specially in the idea that 25 random strangers can come together and be successful with relatively little knowledge or guidance of the encounters.

[Wain]

I don't normally raid. I've done a few bosses here and there,but even I was surprised. The first time I did LFR I didn't die until Deathwing and only once there and I didn't even need explanations on the fights. I'd like to think I'm just awesome,but I don't think so...lol I think they could stand to be just a little harder,but nothing too much more imo. For people who have always raided they must be really bored if I can do it once and go...I've got this.

Hee, don't worry, LFR is on its own level. While normal Dragonsoul is still simpler than past raids, it's not comparable to the ease of LFR. That one's made specially in the idea that 25 random strangers can come together and be successful with relatively little knowledge or guidance of the encounters.

Yes, and seeing I left my guild at a critical point before 4.3, I'm incredibly grateful for it right now! I've actually managed to see the end of the expansion storyline, which is what's most important to me. The fact that the majority of players didn't get to do that in BC was a crime. But if LFR was really raid difficulty I shudder to think how painful it'd be.

[Kikanu]

I've gotten up to Madness of Deathwing in Raid Finder and 10 man. Here's a basic rundown;

Morchok - Stack on red if you get beam, hide behind pillar. FREE LOOT IF YOU'RE NOT STUPID.
Zon'ozz - Bounce ball back and forth (10 man), don't stand still like a moron if melee, and watch your health. FREE LOOT AGAIN IF NOT STUPID.
Yor'sajh - Kill the ooze that is called out, and kill mana voids/adds. FREE LOOT YET AGAIN.
Hagara - Don't be a moron. FREE LOOT.
Ultraxion - Stack, use the BIG PURPLE BUTTON before he nukes the group, and don't be a slacker. FREE LOOT AGAIN.
Warmaster - Quickly kill adds, ranged NEEDS to kill drakes fast, and everyone should stack in the big purple circles. Don't do stupid moves, and you're safe. First boss you actually need to do work to kill, and only one of two who require actual work.
Spine of Deathwing - You have to be completely retarded to fail here. Literally, clinically retarded.
Madness of Deathwing - Limb for a bit, ALL dps goes to big red tentacle, kill Elementium Bolt, kill big tentacle, AOE slimes fast, finish limb. Repeat three more times. If you go Start Left Left Far Right, it's the easiest victory. Once Deathwing facedesks, KILL ADDS, DO NOT WORRY ABOUT HITTING THE GIANT IRON JAW. Kill all adds, switch back to face, repeat. Even if Deathwing has 100k hp remaining, the adds hit hard and WILL wipe the group if unattended. They ALWAYS take priority. Second boss that actually requires work to kill.

I've seen people wipe on Spine. I've seen people do incredibly stupid moves in raid finder AND 10 man. I've killed Deathwing quite a bit on Raid Finder, not once in 10 man (it's tough as hell). The fights are incredibly easy to understand, even for non-experienced raiders. 6 out of 8 bosses, as listed, are practically free loot, so long as your group isn't full of morons. Raid Finder is as easy as Baradin Hold, and I am not kidding. I don't mean Alizibal hard, I mean Argaloth in full firelands heroic hard.

Edit; the descriptions for the bosses were for 10 man. They apply for raid finder too, but more than often you don't really need to worry about the mechanics for the first six bosses in Raid finder.

[Acherontia]

My realm is terrible progression-wise, yet Deathwing was dead the day after his release.

I downed him on LFR the day he was released, as did most people I bet, and I've done the first four as tank, on normal, in a PuG full of 18k-25k dpsers (most under 20k).

I agree that it is much easier than the previous expansions' raids (on Normal), but at the same time, I do like being able to see the content (on LFR). I think it's a smart move to have a puggable, easily-accessible "easy mode" for people who just want to experience it, and have the "normal" modes for progression-focused people & the more gear-oriented players.

It is odd that the normal version is so easy, though, being puggable already. That said, my group was a good group, there were plenty of wipes, and it DID only get to (& down) Hagara (it had stretched on a bit too late by then, and even the DPS acknowledged that their damage wasn't high enough for Ultraxion). And I guess having basic practice in LFR groups helps prepare people for normal mode, to some extent.

[Schwert]

Heroic modes.

Do them.

[Novikova]

Sure. It is kindergarten mode. -If- you have gear and people who're on the ball. A lot of progression guilds or guilds that raid regularly do.


LFR was meant to be e-z mode, for those of us who can't raid at set times or just want to putter around on our Scootypuff Jrs or whatever. The warnings and explanations on why you died are really nice.

[Ket Shi]

I don't raid, but I'm grateful that they ratcheted the difficulty down. My guild is full of people, that, while otherwise fun to play with are terrible at raiding (the guild only earned the Blackwing Descent raid achievement AFTER 4.3 launched) and I'm sure there's tons more like mine. Tons of guilds that are full of nice people, but that turn into a mess the minute they have to try progression raid thanks to low aptitude. I hope this will allow a lot more people to experience the content and rack up cool rewards.

[Malackai]

It's easy because it's normal mode. It is in no way designed to be the pinnacle of raiding. We'll see how truely easy it is or isn't next week with the Heroic modes.

that's not the point most people are comparing it to the normal mode of the previous tier.
even normal firelands was harder then normal DS it took our guild a couple of weeks even months to kill raggy normal mode. especially Mojo and raggy where a bitch back then.
yet we breezed through DS in the first week. we cleared up to hagara in the first evening we even one shotted some bosses and we definitely did not oneshot firelands bosses when the patch was released >_>

I think that is what people mean with easier.