Ninja-ing tames

[Rofls]

I'm new to these forums so I have no idea if there will be some huge positive/negative reaction towards this, but here goes nothing. What is everybody's opinions on ninja taming? I'm not referring to killing a pet as an Alliance player is trying to tame, I am talking about taming the pet before the Alliance player can. This is how I got Ban'thalos who is now my favorite pet and the only pet i take on my expeditions for other pets. A night elf who was there first kept falling off of the tree and dying, as did I, but I got on top before him and I tamed Ban'thalos as he looked on (probably quite sadly). I do not see anything wrong with this, especially in this case because he is in a place this person will be every day. If two people are going for a tame, the best person should win and the other person should be forced to wait for the pet to respawn. I did help the hunter tame deth'tilac later when i ran into him in MF, but right after the successful tame, the dozens of Alliance players watching our battle were /spitting and /pitying and /laughing at me. I didn't care, but I would like to know everybody's opinions on this issue.

[Zuilu]

I try to be courteous to my fellow hunters, as I know I would want them to do the same to me. If I see someone at a rare that I want, I'll ask them first if they want to tame it, and proceed as follows:

If it's a Molten Front challenge tame, I give them 3-5 tries and then try for myself.
If they don't want it, I'll tame it.
If they say they're "holding" it for a friend I'll probably tame it, since said person isn't there.
If it's a regular click and tame pet, they can have it if they saw it first.

I also try to think about just how much I want the pet-- if it's something that I haven't been after and camping for, I'll help someone tame it.

[MajorThor]

If I want a Pet, I get a Pet. That's what's up.

[Shade]

I've always been of the opinion first come first serve, though it really depends on the situation. I've not been in a lot recently where people are competing for the same tame.

With my own Banny tame I had a hunter from my side right behind me trying to tame and a Tauren DK trying to kill him just to be an ass. I pulled off the tame, and I had no qualms about doing so as I had been there for a good while, while the other hunter just kept spot checking. I didn't try to mess up his tames or anything like that-but I didn't go out of my way to help him either. After the tame we spoke a bit, and I told him how to actually do it-he had no clue really at the time how to pull it off. It was the server first Banny and none of the hutners in the area really knew at the time. I knew only because of this site.

I very rarely come across a hunter trying to tame something at the same time I am. When and if I do, I let them have a turn if they were there first. If they die, I'll have a go. That is fair to me-I gave them their chance and they didn't make it. Once the pet is no longer tagged, it is fair game again. I wouldn't do anything to disrupt their attempt, and in the case of the challenge tames, I would try to help as much as I could. But once another hunter fails, its fair to have your turn. If you fail, then they can have another turn again.

Usually I come across other hunters while camping. I'll speak with them, see what they are after and discuss the real strategies to getting the pet. I also let them know that I will send them a mail if I manage a tame, so that they can have the respawn timer. I do this for both factions-I have a horde toon that I can jump on to whisper them about the pets that we are camping for. I've had a number of hunters on both sides that I've had to tell them the techniques for the Molten Front rares-and I have about 30 something hunters on my friend list that I friend-ed in order to let them know spawn and tame times of things they were after. All I ask is they return the favor if possible, so I don't spend six hours sitting and waiting if a tame went off an hour ago.

Usually its better and easier to work together instead of infighting for the pets that we're after. I've had only one incident where I was kicking myself-I camped Scarr like mad, told another faction side hunter how to get him. We were camping the same time and he spawned, the other hunter got him before I could-I was a little irritated (had I not told them how to do the tame that Scarr would have been mine), but oh well. It took another month, but I eventually got my own-another hunter I had whispered about tames and such was camping the crab, saw Scarr spawn and whispered me to let me know he was up. *huggles her*

Fighting over a tame is a bit silly-especially seeing as once the hype dies down, the pets just sit there. I go out to the Front today and at least three of the rares are out almost all the time, just because everybody who wanted them already has them. Wait a few months after the hype and you won't have any trouble taming that rare you want.

[Ana]

defo no. If i see someone from another faction camping a pet, and i see it. I salute the other player, and cheer when he/she have tamed id

[Mychelle]

I am also a first come-first served person. Even if it is of the other faction. (Unless said person of that opposite faction I know for a fact has been harassing other players.) Because in all honesty, they were there first, they were also there longer. But at the same instance you did say they kept dieing over and over again trying to get it. I dont think you were entirely in the wrong. Because you werent trying to hinder the other hunters attempts. They tried and failed, you tried and won. Kinda like a "lets take turns" business. So I am personally okay with this.

The only time I have ever had to "tell off" another hunter regarding a Banny tame was that indeed they were trying to hinder our taming. Me (a hunter), a friend (holy paladin), and another friend (another hunter wanting the actual tame) were there getting Banny down. I had found him when no one else was around. During I believe our 2nd attempt, I'd gotten Banny to the ground by fall dieing, my hunter friend shooting directly after to get aggro. I figured this would be alot quicker then getting her up in the tree. But instead this Night Elf hunter swoops in and immediately starts shooting the bird to get aggro, which she did, but promptly died to Moonfire before she could get her trap out. I didnt say anything at first, until this same Night Elf kept spamming her tame on Banny every time we actually got him close enough to the ground. Trying her best to get aggro. She never actually did any attempts to get Banny down herself at all, only waited on us to make an attempt so she could try and steal it. Finally after about the 4th or 5th time she tried pulling this (she kept messing up our attempts. Shooting him out of our traps and shit. >.< She got me and the other hunter killed numerous times) I whispered her and did my best to "politely" tell her that she needs to stop, and shes messing it up for everyone. She instantly got really pissy with me and whispered me something back along the lines of "I JUST THOUGHT I WOULD TRY. FINE. WHATEVER." and flew off. Soon as she did, our next attempt getting him to ground level left us with a tamed Banny.

Edit - My vote : Certain Situations. My Dethtilac tame was a stolen one. From a Horde Hunter that *really* enjoyed going around the Molten Front and sniping other campers with his tamed Skarr, and then dancing ontop of their bodies while laughing. He deserved it.

[Harvoc]

I don't support ninja-taming but I have done it once when I was trying to tame Skarr. My personal rules of conduct are that if I see a pet that I want, I'm going to try for it. If there are other hunters, so be it. I certainly won't hinder their attempts in any way but I won't help them out either. I will emote them using /salute, /luck, etc. to lighten up the atmosphere. Once the other hunters are dead, I'll try myself.

Now back to Skarr. I had seen Skarr pop up and had been trying to tame him using SV (I'm an engineer so I attempted to interrupt his casts with High-Powered Bolt Gun, but since I was still a clicker, I couldn't time things correctly). After about 15 minutes of trying (and dieing), another hunter shows up. I tell him that I was here first and I would appreciate it if he would let me tame alone (eh, you never know). They didn't go, so we just took turns taming. Then, about 15 minutes after the first hunter shows up, another one does as well. I message him the same thing, but he refuses to leave as well. It was worth a try at least... After many deaths and an ever increasing repair bill, I hearthed back to Stormwind, switched my spec to Marksmanship for the second time in 3 years (the first was to test it out as a leveling spec when Cataclysm dropped; it didn't work out), making sure to spec into Silencing Shot before taking the portal to Mount Hyjal and flying to the Molten Front. Upon arrival, I noticed that the other hunters were dead so I attempted to tame him and succeeded!

There was another player there who apparently was a friend of the first hunter. After I tamed Skarr, he proceeded to bash me for stealing his friend's tame! I responded that I had in fact seen Skarr first and that if he's accusing me of stealing his friend's tame, then what would he call his friend's actions? His friend had attempted to "steal" my tame because I had been there first but all I did was message him saying I'd rather he not but it'd be ok with me if I had competition. That certainly shut that hunter's friend up. I then messaged the first hunter and offered to put him on my friend's list so that I could notify him if Skarr spawned again. He accepted and I also told him about his very rude friend. He apologized for his friend's actions and told me that his friend had a tendency to jump to conclusions about things and was generally a pretty nice person. Alas, I never did see the other hunter on again...

[Lupis]

Nope. I'm very simply a first-come, first-serve kind of person. Someone's there first? Their pet. They're holding it? Well, they got there first. I may as well just get the next spawn.
I dunno, it just seems like ninja-taming is one of those little nasty things in life that everyone could do without. It just leaves a bad taste in the mouth, makes one person unhappy, and is an all-around damper.
Besides. Most of the time I see the pet die when someone tries to ninja-tame. Just let someone tame it- it's less competition in the long run, and at least someone gets away happy. Killing a pet to try and tame it is utterly selfish.

[Rofls]

Like i said before, I wasn't hindering the night elf who was trying to tame, and the issue is not about hindering other people's tames. Obviously nobody supports that unless its the rare occasion where the other tamer is a known griefer. The issue is whether or not it is okay to tame the pet even though the other person is also trying. I am on a PvE server, so even if I wanted there was nothing I could do to the guy.

[Kyria]

This is a completely situational thing for me. Has the other hunter been rude or offensive? For pets with only one spawn location, was I there first? Is it a challenge tame that they've failed repeatedly? For pets with multiple spawn locations, was I camping at all? How much do I want the pet? In your case, you wanted the pet badly, the other hunter failed several times, and you didn't interrupt their tame or draw Ban'thalos off of them mid-pull, so I think it was fair game. Unfortunate for the other hunter, yes, but fair.

[Roxhunt]

Depends......

If they are close to getting it tamed and seem to know the 'trick' to taming it, I will wait and give them several tries. I've waited as long as 30 minutes before because a hunter was so close to completing the tame that we just felt any minute he/she would get it! However, I have seen it where they obviously weren't going to get the tame until they did some studying on it (such as trying to tame Magria/Ankha with their gear on). In these cases, I give them 4 or 5 tries and then it's just whoever gets it tamed first.

I don't interfer with their tames unless they start something with me.

[Kalhoun]

Normally I'm a first come, first served type of person. If I see someone camping a spawn point, I move on. But there was a time I did butt in to someone's taming. It was when I was looking for Karkin - I had found him several times, yet every time I did see him, he was "claimed" by someone trying to tame him. I did help a few people tame both Karkin and Skarr if I saw they were having trouble (I had made a MM offspec that just went down to Silencing Shot specifically for the Molten Front rares). Eventually I found Karkin alone, or so I thought... no one was there, but he was surrounded by skeletons. I got to him, and it turns out the skeletons had been made by a blood elf hunter, attempting over and over to tame the crab. So I sat back and let the belf keep trying. The belf, however, didn't know the strategy, and was just hitting Tame Beast. He would then get hit by Karkin's special and die. This happened four or five more times while I watched. While I admired his persistence, it was pretty painful.

I should have just walked away, but for some reason I didn't. I was tired of not getting my own turn, and watching the belf fail over and over was a bit frustrating. So when the belf died again, I quickly Silenced and tamed the crab. The belf came back and just stood there. I immediately felt horrible and apologized before leaving.

Upon hearthing I stuffed Karkin into my stable and didn't look at him again, feeling very, very guilty. I eventually let him go, since I couldn't bring myself to use him. So I did "ninja" a tame once, but it's something I will probably never do again. I think it was just the "challenge tame" circumstance that made me attempt it.

[Gayia]

Well, I have received a mail after my tame - that I'm a ninja, I stole a tame etc.

The situation was:
Few Allys/Hordes were questing - suddenly Ban'thalos appeared.

Me, and one horde hunter tried to sit on the tree to tame.
We both failed few times.
Horde hunter managed to sit on the tree before me. So, I decided to sit on the hill and watch.

He tried to tame Ban'thalos - didnt have an idea what to do. Tried dps-ing him, cc - failed.
He died.
Banthalos was in my range, so I just clicked - tame beast. I've lost maybe 2k hp.

I didn't steal a tame - he died before!

I know hunters' etiquette. I wouldn't start taming if the tamer was alive.
If he wouldnt die, I wouldn't even try to tame Ban'thalos. The guy failed, so I tried my luck.

But I've been called a ninja, a stealer, a thief.

[Rofls]

Gayia, you were completely in the right. Before, as you said, you guys were both trying to land on the tree and tame Ban. He got on the tree first and started to tame but failed. When he rezed, he wouldn't be on the tree. However, you were in the position to tame which meant the tree was moot. and therefore it was your turn. The other guy was just mad because he lost the tame.

[ummeiko]

It's all situational for me. I'm not a jerk, but I have my limits.

In your Ban'thalos example, I don't consider that a Ninja at all. Competition, sure, but Ninja not so much. You both had several chances for the tree and the tame, you just got it first. It's not like he had it and you somehow interrupted the tame. (like when the molten front spiders could be hit with distracting shot and I've heard stories of Deth getting tamed by an onlooker while the original kiter was rezzing/releasing their trash pet or trying to get distance or somesuch).

To me, and it's probably just semantics, but there's not a lot of ways to ninja a tame, at least not in the same way you can ninja loot/herbs/ore. You can grief by killing the pet or the player, but I don't see that as ninjaing, just griefing.

[Impulse]

Normally I'm a first come, first served type of person. If I see someone camping a spawn point, I move on. But there was a time I did butt in to someone's taming. It was when I was looking for Karkin - I had found him several times, yet every time I did see him, he was "claimed" by someone trying to tame him. I did help a few people tame both Karkin and Skarr if I saw they were having trouble (I had made a MM offspec that just went down to Silencing Shot specifically for the Molten Front rares). Eventually I found Karkin alone, or so I thought... no one was there, but he was surrounded by skeletons. I got to him, and it turns out the skeletons had been made by a blood elf hunter, attempting over and over to tame the crab. So I sat back and let the belf keep trying. The belf, however, didn't know the strategy, and was just hitting Tame Beast. He would then get hit by Karkin's special and die. This happened four or five more times while I watched. While I admired his persistence, it was pretty painful.

I should have just walked away, but for some reason I didn't. I was tired of not getting my own turn, and watching the belf fail over and over was a bit frustrating. So when the belf died again, I quickly Silenced and tamed the crab. The belf came back and just stood there. I immediately felt horrible and apologized before leaving.

Upon hearthing I stuffed Karkin into my stable and didn't look at him again, feeling very, very guilty. I eventually let him go, since I couldn't bring myself to use him. So I did "ninja" a tame once, but it's something I will probably never do again. I think it was just the "challenge tame" circumstance that made me attempt it.

No idea why you were feeling guilty about it.

You were nice enough to give him more chance than what he actually deserve, for someone who was not prepared for a tame and figuring out the mechanics. It certainly doesn't count as ninja-ing. I'd consider ninja-ing when your action directly results in failure of the other person's taming process just so you could go for it.

As for me, if someone is in the middle of attempt, I will simply wait and the moment the person fails and die I will go for it.

[lilaughingwolf]

I will either help or leave the prson tameing the pet alone. If they are waiting for a friend to come and tame it I give them 30 mins tops to get there...after that it is fair game for the waiting hunter. But thats just me...if I am there with someone eles to tame the pet (them tame it not me) I let them do what they feel they need to.

[Dewclaw]

Imo what you did was rude. There is too much me me me, gimme gimme gimme out there as it is. If someone else was there first, it's theirs.

[Chimera]

If its one of the click-freeze-tame type pets, i wont bother them. I'll wait there and camp if its something i really want because for all i know they may log out out of bordem or another pressing matter (such as sleep) before the creature spawns. If they're there when it spawns and they're active (aka not sitting there for like a good 15-20min with an afk sign, i dont want someone swooping in and ruining it for both of us.. if they dont respond after a minute when the creature appears then i'll tame and write them an in-game mail describing what happened. An apology and time-stamp essentially is what i write.) then i'll let them have it and once the tame is successful i do something else waiting for the timer to tick down.

If its a challenge tame, you get a shot, i get a shot. I died to Kirix 15 times and someone literally waltz'd up and tamed him on their first attempt. Did i rage? Honestly, inside i did, but i did not react negatively to him whatsoever. Infact later that day i cheered him on while he tamed Karkin. Challenge tames were designed to be challenges, if you fail that challenge, you let someone else try. I failed endlessly to Kirix and there for it was not my place to rage all over the other guys face because he had better timing. I have never gone crazy on another camper before, i have never killed another camper before if they happened to be flagged, i have never stolen a creature from a camper while they were actively waiting for that creature, i have not killed a creature someone was camping for.

I will sit and wait with them, but i will not touch the creature if they make attempts to tame, but if they have proven to be afk for a long period of time and are still afk when the creature spawned and is still not making any attempts to move after a minute or two, i will tame. If you die trying to perform a challenge tame, i will try to tame it myself because you failed the challenge and its now someone elses turn to try. Its not greedy if the person fails to beat the challenge, its a contest and the creature is the prize.

It is courteous to allow them to continue trying until they successfully tame, and even moreso to help them with the tame so they can acquire it with less stress and effort it causes, but i dont see a reason why you dont have a right to take a whack at it when they died to the challenge and not to an outside source (another player for example. I would give them a second shot at the tame if a player got involved and did something to interfere with the challenge in a way that is not productive to the person who is trying to beat the challenge).

[GormanGhaste]

If there are multiple hunters, taking turns makes sense to me.

Personally, I'd leave it to the other hunter, just for RP reasons. Hard to imagine taming a wild animal under those circumstances.