Being called 'gorgeous' offensive?

[Teigan]

To women:
Hello, friend!
You're some kind of gorgeous, aren't you? I bet you can't keep the men off of you!
Join me! You and I are going to be good friends!

To men:
Hello, friend!
You've got a strong look to you! I bet you're all the rage with the ladies!
Join me! You and I are going to be good friends!

There is a qualitative difference here concerning power and assertiveness and control.

[Chimera]

Er, "you can't keep the men off you!" is a common expression, well, least if you replace 'men' with 'ladies' or 'women' it is. Hes not saying that he thinks your too weak to push off a dozen men that have fallen onto you or are manhandling you. I see it completely as a flirt and a rather generous one cause i feel like my characters getting a compliment that entitles that shes a lot prettier then she thinks she is.

[Lisaara]

No Teigan....there isn't. I still firmly believe that's being blown out of proportion. He's just saying you must be a ladies man or a real attractive woman that guys wish they could date.

@Xakaal - Exactly. Very common expression. Has nothing to do with weakness/strength/etc.

[pengupuff]

Er, "you can't keep the men off you!" is a common expression, well, least if you replace 'men' with 'ladies' or 'women' it is. Hes not saying that he thinks your too weak to push off a dozen men that have fallen onto you or are manhandling you. I see it completely as a flirt and a rather generous one cause i feel like my characters getting a compliment that entitles that shes a lot prettier then she thinks she is.

Agreed.
"I bet you're all there rage with the men" doesn't flow quite as well, does it?

[Worba]

Fixed the title (even though I still think beautiful and gorgeous are the same thing....synonyms for the win!)

But yeah....to everyone saying "He's telling the men they're strong and the ladies are weak", he's not. That's being blown out of proportion. He's complimenting on BOTH genders looks. "You look strong" "You look gorgeous". Don't know about you but I think it's pretty awesome for someone to say I'm pretty then show em I'm more than a pretty face.

And again, theres a ton of NPCs that have flirted with characters (Brewfest anyone) yet no one complains about them. It's baffling really.....

Oh I'm sure this is not unprecedented, and it's not something I personally find offensive - it's just that when I look at an issue like this, I try to step out of my own shoes and make some allowance for how others (with different personal circumstances such as being a different gender, sexual orientation or etc) might view it.

Just because I personally have a filthy, violence & sex loving outlook, doesn't mean I expect everyone around me to see things the same way (honestly it's probably good if they don't...); I'd rather compromise on a few things that don't matter as much to me if it means others will be comfortable and have a better time.

Within reason.

[Talaridan]

I really do not see the quest text as implying women are weaker. I think he was basically saying both genders are "hot" and probably get a lot of attention because of it.

My first take?

Bisexual old horny panda trying to get some with both genders. >> *laughs*

To the fact of "Well, if someone said it in real life, you would be offended"...A lot of stuff in game would offend me!

Personally, if a real police officer came to me and said "There are lots of robbers in this area! Take a gun and go kill some!" I would look at them like they were out of their mind. In game, that happens all the time. "Quick this <insert race> is on our land! Kill them all! And get paid!"

[Lisaara]

Fixed the title (even though I still think beautiful and gorgeous are the same thing....synonyms for the win!)

But yeah....to everyone saying "He's telling the men they're strong and the ladies are weak", he's not. That's being blown out of proportion. He's complimenting on BOTH genders looks. "You look strong" "You look gorgeous". Don't know about you but I think it's pretty awesome for someone to say I'm pretty then show em I'm more than a pretty face.

And again, theres a ton of NPCs that have flirted with characters (Brewfest anyone) yet no one complains about them. It's baffling really.....

Oh I'm sure this is not unprecedented, and it's not something I personally find offensive - it's just that when I look at an issue like this, I try to step out of my own shoes and make some allowance for how others (with different personal circumstances such as being a different gender, sexual orientation or etc) might view it.

Just because I personally have a filthy, violence & sex loving outlook, doesn't mean I expect everyone around me to see things the same way (honestly it's probably good if they don't...); I'd rather compromise on a few things that don't matter as much to me if it means others will be comfortable and have a better time.

Within reason.

Hehe. I'll admit that wasn't really directed towards you but I see your point in the matter. Though I try to look at it as...well...you can't please everyone. This game is rated T for teen and lemme tell ya....a lot of teenagers say a lot more vulgar things than this. He's just being Old Timey friendly. A shame a guy can't say you're pretty without someone wanting to call them a pig just cause he thinks you're a cherry blossom from a tree or something.

If they add the option to /slap him for the ones who are 'offended' by the friendliness, I guess I'll be okay with it but if they change the text, I'm gonna be mildly irritated cause I like NPCs like him. He's lively. He's funny. Most quest givers bore me to tears.

I mean if it wasn't accurate with the lore or something, I'd say tweak it to make it accurate but since what he says has nothing to do with anything other than a compliment, then it should stay cause it gives him life and a personality. Maybe my priorities are a bit different but I think theres a lot more to worry about than a simple compliment.

[Teigan]

My analysis of the implications of the wording is sound. I stand by that. Whether or not this matters in the grand scheme of things is another matter altogether. I'm not saying anyone is wrong for being offended or not being offended. I'm merely dissecting the phrases.

[pengupuff]

My analysis of the implications of the wording is sound. I stand by that. Whether or not this matters in the grand scheme of things is another matter altogether. I'm not saying anyone is wrong for being offended or not being offended. I'm merely dissecting the phrases.

That's just the thing though, I don't think there are any implications of that statement. I think the writer in question was just tasked to create a flirty yet amiable old panda, and they figured those lines just fit the bill. Other famous characters with the "likable scoundrel" character type include Han Solo (Star Wars), Barney Stinson (How I Met Your Mother), Tony Stark (Ironman), Brock (Pokemon), John Beckwith & Jeremy Grey (Wedding Crashers), and the list goes on for ages. It's a popular character, there's one in almost every movie, and so it's not completely outrageous that the writers at Blizzard assumed their customers might also get a kick out of a character along these lines.

Then again, that's all just speculation. I don't know the guy/gal. It's entirely possible that this writer at Blizzard is some close-minded, sexist pig and that panda's dialogue was written as a subtle jab at the female gender as a whole.

[Teigan]

I am not saying the writer had any nefarious ideas. I'm sure he or she simply wanted to create a memorable, slightly off color character. Those are not original phrases. What I'm pointing out is that certain sexist ideas are so ingrained in our culture and language that no one thinks twice about them.

[cowmuflage]

Like how topless men are not considered erotic unlike females. I certainly like to see shirtless men if you know what I mean but then again a topless female does not need to be erotic too. :/

[Teigan]

Yeah, we've all got nipples! And...some men have bigger boobs than I do....

[Lisaara]

Yeah, we've all got nipples! And...some men have bigger boobs than I do....

Manboobs..... /shudder

Anyway...back to the topic...

sex·ism [sek-siz-uhm]
noun
1. attitudes or behavior based on traditional stereotypes of sexual roles.
2. discrimination or devaluation based on a person's sex, as in restricted job opportunities; especially, such discrimination directed against women.

Neither of these fit anything he said, imho. There was no stereotyping involved and he's not devaluing anyone(Proof is during your time with him as a fempanda, he compliments you highly that you kick ass).

[Teigan]

Anyway...back to the topic...

sex·ism [sek-siz-uhm]
noun

1. attitudes or behavior based on traditional stereotypes of sexual roles.

2. discrimination or devaluation based on a person's sex, as in restricted job opportunities; especially, such discrimination directed against women.

I beg to differ. Traditional sexual/gender roles for women are, among other things, that they are passive and pretty. This emphasizes both of those.

[Galaxy]

You know what? I had a guy do just that. When I first met him, the first thing he said is, "Wow, you are so beautiful. I bet your boyfriend tells you all the time, huh?"

Single at the time, wasn't single again for 3 years. FABULOUS guy. It's a shame we had to part ways.

I think it comes off creepy b/c of how WE, the READER hear the statements in our heads.

For instance:

"That skirt was so short it made me shiver." Now, how was it without any tone really written in? Some of us will read is as a guy getting all excited over the view. Some will hear a disgusted tone and think the one wearing the skirt had more than enough of a view and the one making the statement disapproved. However, what it if was snowing outside and was a female saying that b/c she is having sympathy chills for the poor girl wearing a short skirt in the cold?

My point: What we read into things makes them what they are. An NPC (excluding main characters) won't have clear situations to define them. Therefore, the context of what is being said is entirely on the reader (not the NPC).

My ex? I never thought he was being creepy. It was cute.

...and I am not above being told I am looking good, IRL or in game.

[Ellaran]

Yeah, we've all got nipples! And...some men have bigger boobs than I do....

Floppy fat man-boobs: BAAAAAAAAD.



Big muscled pecs: MMMMMMMMMMM =D~

[Talaridan]

Anyway...back to the topic...

sex·ism [sek-siz-uhm]
noun

1. attitudes or behavior based on traditional stereotypes of sexual roles.

2. discrimination or devaluation based on a person's sex, as in restricted job opportunities; especially, such discrimination directed against women.

I beg to differ. Traditional sexual/gender roles for women are, among other things, that they are passive and pretty. This emphasizes both of those.

I have to disagree. He said he thought you were pretty. Not that "you're a good little woman to be so pretty". In the quests, he compliments how capable and strong you are, male and female. I saw nothing in his text, personally, that said he was expecting the female to be passive toward anything. If anything, he's admiring that you have brains and beauty, in his opinion.

[Talaridan]

[Ellaran]

http://healthyoutdoorsman.com/wp-conten ... -Boobs.jpg

IT BUUUURRRRRRNS!!

[Lisaara]

I see some irony here....x3