Game-Breaking, but still completely legal BULLSHIT

[Worba]

You see what I mean about the lack of absolutes though - and never say never, because Blizzard's the only one who knows what's to come.

Also even in cases where Blizzard currently chooses not to take (direct) action, that is not to say they consider it "OK", or that they aren't working on a development-side solution to the problem.

A few general cases in point:

Voter blocs - players complain on forums about guildies queuing for randoms together and then /votekicking for arbitrary and self serving purposes, while enjoying immunity vs any incoming /votekicks. Other players say "it's fine, just run pugs with your own guild". End result: Blizzard changes the LFD and LFR to give increased CD for /votekicks that come from guild blocs.

Ore ninjas - players complain on forums about others showing up while they are mining and helping themselves to part of the ore. Other players say "if it's not in your bag then it's not yours". End result: Blizzard changes ore nodes to return all ore on the first tap.

Chest ninjas - players complain on forums about others waiting until a player engages the mobs near a chest and then slip past and grab it. Other players say it's fine. End result: Blizzard changes chests to allow players to open them during combat.

Gear ninjas - tanks complain about dps needing on tank gear. Other players say it's fine, just run the dungeon again. End result: Blizzard starts adding +100 to role-appropriate loot rolls.

Etc.

[Kiingeh]

I can see your point, I highly doubt it will change though.
The issues you listed were fixed relatively quick (IE, the next patch) and were unforeseen problems.

Boxing has been around for as long as RPGs, I don't think Blizzard wouldn't have expected it and even if they hadn't, they've had 7 years to fix it.
Even some of the blues have posted they multibox.

Point is Multiboxing IS legal and they don't have any advantage over you. You cannot run in 1 v X and expect to win, that's just moronic to claim unfair advantage when you die.
If multiboxing gave any real advantage, you'd see them in the top arena and RBGs brackets. No group of players with even half a brain will lose to a single player controlling an equally sized team.

As for turtling in BGs, I am going to go out on a limb and say it will NEVER become a reportable offense for a team to turtle.

I also don't think you'll have to worry about boxing in the future, if you've played Tera, that style combat will most likely become the staple for the new generations of MMO's, It would be a step back if they didn't.
That style of combat makes multiboxing impossible, even with programs that can track mouse position.

[Worba]

I can see your point, I highly doubt it will change though.
The issues you listed were fixed relatively quick (IE, the next patch) and were unforeseen problems.

They weren't though - not sure when you started playing, but ore stealing wasn't addressed until sometime in wotlk, chest ninjas weren't addressed until 4.0, and they're only starting to address gear ninjas now, etc. And pretty much most if not all problems were unforeseen.

Boxing has been around for as long as RPGs, I don't think Blizzard wouldn't have expected it and even if they hadn't, they've had 7 years to fix it.
Even some of the blues have posted they multibox.

Point is Multiboxing IS legal and they don't have any advantage over you. You cannot run in 1 v X and expect to win, that's just moronic to claim unfair advantage when you die.
If multiboxing gave any real advantage, you'd see them in the top arena and RBGs brackets. No group of players with even half a brain will lose to a single player controlling an equally sized team.

But this isn't about whether multiboxing is legal - of course it is. It's a question of what you do with the new horizons boxing opens up.

I do take your point about the lack of multiboxers in RBGs, e.g. that BG multiboxing ultimately will fall to a large enough group of players who are sufficiently determined and well coordinated, but that assumes all BG participants are elite or aspiring to be - teamwork takes work, and even when you get enough people in one place willing to pull together, obviously it's still far from an exact science, so when they pull it together it's quite an achievement. Whereas one guy running a hotkeyed robot legion is rather a different beast. Not to say that guy and his legion don't have a place on the BG - it's not a categorical thing, but the distinction remains and shouldn't be ignored or oversimplified.

Currently it *is* being overlooked (by Blizzard), at least to outward appearances (but then so were all the other issues they ended up addressing developmentally), but that's probably the best that can be said for it - Blizzard most likely is just taking the path of least resistance for now, e.g. not that many people are complaining, it doesn't (as you noted) help in top competition, and ofc it's bringing in a decent chunk of cash, so let it lie.

But again like I said earlier, this is mostly predicated on overall player reaction - if this actually started to measurably hurt BG popularity in a major way, you can be quite certain Blizzard would be taking a fresh look at this and addressing it from a developmental level (if they're not already, which is a possibility), if not more directly.

As for turtling in BGs, I am going to go out on a limb and say it will NEVER become a reportable offense for a team to turtle.

No one's talking about turtling - it's not about where individual players go or what they do in BGs but rather the question of whether it is fair for their cooperation to be automated (I believe it is, to some extent at least), and if so, to what extent (that's more of an open question, for me).

[Acherontia]

That is your opinion and thankfully one Blizzard doesn't share, if it wasn't a legitimate tactic, he would be banned. He has done this so many times now and I bet this guy has a mountain of tickets against him. The fact hes still around already shows you've lost the bet

"Thankfully?" I'd rather he be stopped, and so would the majority of posters on this thread. "Thankfully" is your opinion, not mine, definitely.

There's nothing to say he won't be banned or reprimanded in the future. There's also nothing to say that his tactics are legitimate, and that that's why he hasn't been banned. There's a very good chance his "tactics" are being ignored because he's paying Blizzard so damn much money. Individual GMs might disagree, or they might well still be debating what to do.

And again, it's not about "turtling" and tactics, it's about what he's doing being completely lame, disrupting the BG and its purpose repeatedly, and pretty much breaking any fun for the opposing team--repeatedly.

[Poesje]

If the opposing team cant take him down, maybe they need to rethink. Hes got the whole enemy team in a single tiny spot, all doing the same thing. Get the team together, and make them fight back in an organized fashion and I promise you they wont have any problems taking him down. People just randomly running around are of course going to be killed, just like they would be if he werent multiboxing, and was simply a team with enough organization to run together.

Thankfully is exactly the right word here, because thats frankly what we should be. Blizzard wont ban practices that are completely sound because a vocal majority disagrees with them. Running crying to Blizz going "Wah, wah, I cant take down an entire opposing team by myself!" is just ridiculous.

[Gimlion]

If the opposing team cant take him down, maybe they need to rethink. Hes got the whole enemy team in a single tiny spot, all doing the same thing. Get the team together, and make them fight back in an organized fashion and I promise you they wont have any problems taking him down. People just randomly running around are of course going to be killed, just like they would be if he werent multiboxing, and was simply a team with enough organization to run together

You have obviously never PvP'd as an Alliance on my battle group... This is literally impossible, trust me, I've tried.

[Sukurachi]

If the opposing team cant take him down, maybe they need to rethink. Hes got the whole enemy team in a single tiny spot, all doing the same thing. Get the team together, and make them fight back in an organized fashion and I promise you they wont have any problems taking him down. People just randomly running around are of course going to be killed, just like they would be if he werent multiboxing, and was simply a team with enough organization to run together

You have obviously never PvP'd as an Alliance on my battle group... This is literally impossible, trust me, I've tried.

So in effect, what you are complaining about is not that he is multi-boxing and thus "ruining" the game for you, but rather that your side of the battle are incompetent?

The whole tone of this thread has become incredibly offensive.

[Poesje]

If the opposing team cant take him down, maybe they need to rethink. Hes got the whole enemy team in a single tiny spot, all doing the same thing. Get the team together, and make them fight back in an organized fashion and I promise you they wont have any problems taking him down. People just randomly running around are of course going to be killed, just like they would be if he werent multiboxing, and was simply a team with enough organization to run together

You have obviously never PvP'd as an Alliance on my battle group... This is literally impossible, trust me, I've tried.

So in effect, what you are complaining about is not that he is multi-boxing and thus "ruining" the game for you, but rather that your side of the battle are incompetent

This. If you cant beat him because the alliance wont cooperate, then you wouldnt be able to beat a proper horde team anyway, so theres really nothing to be upset about. Would you like Blizzard to ban cooperating in teams too, because its unfair to uncoordinated teams?

And yes, Ive played both horde and alliance, and both demonstrated about an equal lack of competence in random BGs.

The whole tone of this thread has become incredibly offensive.

[Gimlion]

That's only a part of it. With 40 characters in maxed PvP gear, you cannot expect any team within a random to win. Even if all of the most coordinated and best-geared players went against him, they'd be hard pressed to get anything done. He literally switches from one target to the next, zerging someones health down instantly. 4 seconds into a fight, regardless of coordination, he's got half of the dps burned to the ground. It's absolutely asinine what he's doing, and is very disrupting to the BG system.

If you get into a BG against him, what do you do? Attempt to coordinate and strike back? He'll farm honor. Run and Hide? Game won't end. Attempt to win by the strat? He'll camp the objective. The only other options is to accept a 15 minute waiting debuff that is absolute shit because you got thrown into a match with this asshat, or to sit through it and watch morons continue to run at him. There is not beating this guy unless you specifically plan to beat him, and then what happens if you don't get a match against him, but some massively powerful group of randoms? You'll get shat on again, because you weren't prepared for that either. Then he wins again, because your group still lost the BG, just as embarrassingly as if you were going against him.


THERE IS NOT BEATING HIM

[Kalliope]

Or....

You yell at everyone to summon Ivus (like I said back on the first page) to have HIM defeat him.

There IS beating him, just not with every group.

The best way to get people to listen is to sound authoritative and confident. There's always a certain number of people who will listen. Whether or not they outnumber the idiots running around with their heads cut off is another question entirely.

[Kiingeh]

"Thankfully?" I'd rather he be stopped, and so would the majority of posters on this thread. "Thankfully" is your opinion, not mine, definitely.

People are more likely to comment on something they hate rather than what they like, any forum thread (or anything involving peoples opinions) will generally have a larger percentage of people against a topic rather than for it. This is just human nature.

There's nothing to say he won't be banned or reprimanded in the future. There's also nothing to say that his tactics are legitimate, and that that's why he hasn't been banned. There's a very good chance his "tactics" are being ignored because he's paying Blizzard so damn much money. Individual GMs might disagree, or they might well still be debating what to do.

The tactics ARE legitimate, turtling is a tactic that is in just about every game with a PvP element in some form. Even in FPS games. You may not like them and think they disrupt the game, others do not. I personally LOVE a good turtle in AV. In a battleground that's evolved from a good old PvP murderball in Vanilla to the PvE zerg race its become in the recent years a good turtle is welcomed.

The "well they are paying more money so of course blizzard wont care" retort isn't accurate and rather weak.
Hackers, botters and farmers would also be paying them money (not all ofc), yet they ban them. If something goes against the nature of the game in blizzards view, they will take steps to fix it, regardless of how much money they are paying them.

And again, it's not about "turtling" and tactics, it's about what he's doing being completely lame, disrupting the BG and its purpose repeatedly, and pretty much breaking any fun for the opposing team--repeatedly.

It is about that, you think what he does to win is lame and disrupting the BG. What he does is turtle. Fun is subjective, you may not like it, some do. You're also not forced to stay in the BG.

If you get into a BG against him, what do you do? Attempt to coordinate and strike back? He'll farm honor. Run and Hide? Game won't end. Attempt to win by the strat? He'll camp the objective. The only other options is to accept a 15 minute waiting debuff that is absolute shit because you got thrown into a match with this asshat, or to sit through it and watch morons continue to run at him. There is not beating this guy unless you specifically plan to beat him, and then what happens if you don't get a match against him, but some massively powerful group of randoms? You'll get shat on again, because you weren't prepared for that either. Then he wins again, because your group still lost the BG, just as embarrassingly as if you were going against him.


THERE IS NOT BEATING HIM

You can beat him I have been in groups that have done it, look on the WoW subreddit every now and then a post will show up about a pug group winning.

The whole tone of this thread has become incredibly offensive.

Indeed, I apologize, that was not my intent.

[Moderator]

Moderation note: This thread has run its course. Locking.