Pandaren Phoenix (Warning; Large Images!)

[Crotalus Horridus]

I...personally dont think they should be pets..at all. They're phoenix's and to me those are like dragons. I'd NEVER want anyone to tame a dragon or a phoenix. I see them both as sentient. I think if anything they should be mounts.. The idea of a hunter taming something so legendary as a phoenix just puts me off personally.

Do not confuse Sapience with Sentience, please. There are tons of animals that we can have as pets IRL and in-game that are sentient. Infact, most animals are classified as sentient or semi-sentient. Parrots for example, are sentient. However, people keep them as pets in-game and IRL. Semi-sentience means that the animals is self-aware, and can feel emotions like happiness, sadness, and anger and are somewhat aware of there existence. Sentient animals however, are able to feel said emotions, but are completely aware of there existence and all that stuff.

Sapience however, describes a being that can act upon wisdom, reason, and use judgement. Humans are the only sapient animals that we know of. Dragons in WoW are sapient because they can act upon wisdom, reason, and use judgement and are sentient because they are self aware and can feel complex emotions. A Phoenix however, is probably not sapient, but could be sentient.

Oh, and Al'ar is Kael'thas' pet.

[Silivren]

I...personally dont think they should be pets..at all. They're phoenix's and to me those are like dragons. I'd NEVER want anyone to tame a dragon or a phoenix. I see them both as sentient. I think if anything they should be mounts.. The idea of a hunter taming something so legendary as a phoenix just puts me off personally.

Do not confuse Sapience with Sentience, please. There are tons of animals that we can have as pets IRL and in-game that are sentient. Infact, most animals are classified as sentient or semi-sentient. Parrots for example, are sentient. However, people keep them as pets in-game and IRL. Semi-sentience means that the animals is self-aware, and can feel emotions like happiness, sadness, and anger and are somewhat aware of there existence. Sentient animals however, are able to feel said emotions, but are completely aware of there existence and all that stuff.

Sapience however, describes a being that can act upon wisdom, reason, and use judgement. Humans are the only sapient animals that we know of. Dragons in WoW are sapient because they can act upon wisdom, reason, and use judgement and are sentient because they are self aware and can feel complex emotions. A Phoenix however, is probably not sapient, but could be sentient.

Oh, and Al'ar is Kael'thas's pet.

A'lar I consider Kael's PARTNER and Kael was a powerful MAGE IE attune to elements. I see Phoenix's in the same light as dragons and if they were ever the pet of any class it should be a fire mage spec pet. that being said they shouldnt be pets at all. A hunter does not need such a legendary creature as a pet. A parrot is not legendary sapient or sentient or not.

[Crotalus Horridus]

I...personally dont think they should be pets..at all. They're phoenix's and to me those are like dragons. I'd NEVER want anyone to tame a dragon or a phoenix. I see them both as sentient. I think if anything they should be mounts.. The idea of a hunter taming something so legendary as a phoenix just puts me off personally.

Do not confuse Sapience with Sentience, please. There are tons of animals that we can have as pets IRL and in-game that are sentient. Infact, most animals are classified as sentient or semi-sentient. Parrots for example, are sentient. However, people keep them as pets in-game and IRL. Semi-sentience means that the animals is self-aware, and can feel emotions like happiness, sadness, and anger and are somewhat aware of there existence. Sentient animals however, are able to feel said emotions, but are completely aware of there existence and all that stuff.

Sapience however, describes a being that can act upon wisdom, reason, and use judgement. Humans are the only sapient animals that we know of. Dragons in WoW are sapient because they can act upon wisdom, reason, and use judgement and are sentient because they are self aware and can feel complex emotions. A Phoenix however, is probably not sapient, but could be sentient.

Oh, and Al'ar is Kael'thas's pet.

A'lar I consider Kael's PARTNER and Kael was a powerful MAGE IE attune to elements. I see Phoenix's in the same light as dragons and if they were ever the pet of any class it should be a fire mage spec pet. that being said they shouldnt be pets at all. A hunter does not need such a legendary creature as a pet. A parrot is not legendary sapient or sentient or not.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Al'ar
Occupation Pet of Prince Kael'thas

And I know a Parrot is not sapient, however it is sentient. I see nothing that says Phoenix's are sapient creatures, if you could, may you please link me it?
Also, you say that if it would ever be a pet, it should go to a mage. Now why should a mage get a sentient pet, but not a hunter?

[Silivren]

I didnt say they were I said to ME they're like dragons. They sure dont seem "animal like". They're far more than that, I dont see a phoenix bowing to the will of a mortal any more than I do a dragon. Dragons are used as mounts it would seem in WoW an an agreement between dragon and rider, because you sure arent supposed to be "forcing" it to do anything. Would a hunter tame a dragon? No. Should a hunter tame a phoenix? No. Thats MY opinion. I'm sorry you disagree so much but to me you seem to be disliking everyone who doesnt share your opinion, constantly questioning why people think that these shouldnt be pets. I anwsered because I dont think they're classified as pets and as I said in my last post even if they were they should belong to MAGES and maybe then only as a temporary summonable skill like a shamans ghost wolf. I have a different opinion than you, I dont remember when having a different opinion than someone became a crime. And why? Because a phoenix is a being of fire, why do warlocks get sapient warlock minions? Because they rule over demons. A mage rules over elements.

[Crotalus Horridus]

I didnt say they were I said to ME they're like dragons. They sure dont seem "animal like". They're far more than that, I dont see a phoenix bowing to the will of a mortal any more than I do a dragon. Dragons are used as mounts it would seem in WoW an an agreement between dragon and rider, because you sure arent supposed to be "forcing" it to do anything. Would a hunter tame a dragon? No. Should a hunter tame a phoenix? No. Thats MY opinion. I'm sorry you disagree so much but to me you seem to be disliking everyone who doesnt share your opinion, constantly questioning why people think that these shouldnt be pets. I anwsered because I dont think they're classified as pets and as I said in my last post even if they were they should belong to MAGES and maybe then only as a temporary summonable skill like a shamans ghost wolf. I have a different opinion than you, I dont remember when having a different opinion than someone became a crime. And why? Because a phoenix is a being of fire, why do warlocks get sapient warlock minions? Because they rule over demons. A mage rules over elements.

I myself see me attacking people's opinions I don't like a lot, kinda like an Army Ant protecting her nest. If something opposes something that I like, I attack in. In the case of other forum goers, it's people with a different opinion than mine. So I apologize if I attacked you with my strange habits.

And not trying to go off on the same thing again, but the Pandaren Phoenix's are Non-Elementals, unlike the BC Phoenix made from fire.

[Slickrock]

meh... one problem.

take a look at one in the model viewer, from the view of riding on it. Gonna have those tail feather flapping at you all the time. I'll ride the rocket mounts instead.

[cowmuflage]

Still Phoenix's are elementals and we can't tame them. I don't want us to tame elementals as where does it stop from there? Yes I know we have Shale spiders etc but the Phoenix has always been an elemental in lore and it should stay that way IMO. They could bend the rules yes and retcon the things but that would be silly and where would you tame one anyway? Firelands?

But I'm talking about the classic one. These on the other hand I have no clue.

[Yoruko]

I myself see me attacking people's opinions I don't like a lot, kinda like an Army Ant protecting her nest. If something opposes something that I like, I attack in. In the case of other forum goers, it's people with a different opinion than mine. So I apologize if I attacked you with my strange habits.

And not trying to go off on the same thing again, but the Pandaren Phoenix's are Non-Elementals, unlike the BC Phoenix made from fire.

I'm not even sure where to start, but let's just say that every person has every right to form an opinion for themselves and it should not be considered a valid reason to attack them. From what I see, people have been trying to make reasonable arguments why they think these will not be tameable as in not to get anyone's hopes up or create misinformation.

There are lots of people who come to this site for actual facts for upcoming content, so everyone tries to keep speculation in reasonable levels. (Or so it would seem to me.) This means that no one is saying that you are wrong in hoping for a tameable version of a wonderful, beautiful model; we are just saying that it's not likely it will be one based off of what we have been shown before. Some of us think it would be unfair to other classes if we could tame this model and they have every right to having that opinion.

Regardless what they might call this model in game and that it's not exactly elemental looking, it still shares the model base with the old phoenixes and very rarely we're allowed to tame something that does so. Proto Drakes - Fire Hawks. Nerubian - Cinderweb Clutchkeeper. These come to mind, for example. There was lots of speculation about both when the Molten Front patch was under way.

As far as speculation goes about what Blizzard might do, we have to use the information we've been given previously as a base of judgment. Of course there is lots of things they can or could do, it's just that if it seems unlikely, then it's unlikely they will do so. (Such as referencing a peacock for the walk animation if they think the model does not need one.)

[Wain]

From what I understand, the reason we can't tame fire hawks and phoenixes is simply that they're "too fiery"

This new one is an organic bird. I understand the theory that it's the base "family" that sets precedence for whether something can or can't be tamed, but I don't believe this is actually the case.

On the other hand, the bad news is there's no "no saddle" version in the database. At least not yet. So currently the point is moot.


One thing that you could all do to help with preventing these threads from becoming heated is to please stop accusing each other of reacting negatively. While it may sometimes be called for, my observation in this thread is that it's been more prevalent than anything anyone has been accused of, and has ironically become the major source of negativity. Please count to 100 before taking anyone to task. Then re-read their post and look for any possible way their meaning could be interpreted differently. If there's a more positive possibility then please assume that's what they meant.

[Suicune]

I love that they are creating the creatures to be true to beautiful Asian artwork... the Siberian tiger model is a dead ringer for the one on my wall scroll, as is the cloud serpent, not to mention the Quilen. Now we have these gorgeous Phoenixes to add to that list. Well done Blizz, well done!

[MaximumOverdrive]

I still love these phoenixes...they're just beautiful. But I don't really wanna see them as hunter pets either, they don't feel like hunter pets to me. Phoenixes are kinda legendary and that's not something to be a pet really. But I will get one of those as a mount! And it'll be awesome!

[Arwyn]

I'm crossing my fingers that at least one of these is going to be a faction reward from The August Celestials or for whatever battleground(s) are slated for MOP.

[Meggers]

Hopes that they don't become the new arena mount models.

[Mozag]

My, my, my...these are very beautiful indeed. Can't quite decide on a favourite yet, but unless it's arena, I will probably do pretty much anything to get at least one of them.
Maybe the third...or the fourth...or wait, the first! Can't decide.

Nice work, Blizzard, really astounding artwork!

[Loki]

They look very birdlike, far more than the original phoenixes. Calling them phoenixes seems like a bit of a misnomer to me; I'd like to see one tamable but I'm not holding my breath.

[Chimera]

if they're arena.. god.. id never in all of WoW's existence have a shred of hope of getting one.. i cant do arena for the life of me >< ive never been a fan of arena and expectations are so ungodly high among players who have the capability of acheiving the top gear and acheivs and mounts n whatnot that id burn myself out from stress of dealing with my arena partners..

[Bangeall]

I am thrilled that they have created these Asian-themed phoenixes. I love phoenixes, but I have never been a fan of Ashes of Al'ar. I absolutely love these mounts, but I am not going to get my hopes up that I will ever own one. The last phoenix is hands-down my favourite, but I am convinced that it is going to be a raid-achievement mount, as its colouration is somewhat more distinct from the other three. I wouldn't mind camping for one of them in the least.

I think the feet are sort of sweet, though they look out of place on a creature that certainly doesn't look like it is capable of walking. It probably would have been better to not include them, but they don't bother me at all.

[Equeon]

if they're arena.. god.. id never in all of WoW's existence have a shred of hope of getting one.. i cant do arena for the life of me >< ive never been a fan of arena and expectations are so ungodly high among players who have the capability of acheiving the top gear and acheivs and mounts n whatnot that id burn myself out from stress of dealing with my arena partners..

Oh no... if these are arena rewards I will smash something!

[Kalliope]

Aren't arena rewards usually drakes of some kind? At the very least, they're recolors of mounts that are available in other ways.

[cowmuflage]

Aren't arena rewards usually drakes of some kind? At the very least, they're recolors of mounts that are available in other ways.

Yeah ones with armor of some kind.