Should armor changing-classes get dual mog options?

[Holgarr]

I'm unsure if this has been brought up by other folks on the official forums before, but to my knowledge it hasn't been questioned here... so I figured I'd ask here to get a good idea of how to post about it there.

Do you think that classes that change armor types while leveling (hunters and shamans going from leather to mail, warriors and paladins going from mail to plate) should be allowed to transmog both types they use?

For example, a plate-wearing Paladin mogging his outfit using mail gear, or a mail-clad hunter mogging with leather?

[Vephriel]

Part of me loves the idea of having the cool leather gear added to our transmog options, but at the same time I'm not sure if they'd do something like that. I'd feel bad for the clothies who are stuck with just a single type, I think it's probably more fair in the long run that each person only gets to choose from one armor pool.

[Holgarr]

Part of me loves the idea of having the cool leather gear added to our transmog options, but at the same time I'm not sure if they'd do something like that. I'd feel bad for the clothies who are stuck with just a single type, I think it's probably more fair in the long run that each person only gets to choose from one armor pool.

Hey, druids, rogues, and death knights all only use one armor type, too, not just casters, and I've never heard of anyone feeling sorry for them.

I'm just saying, if there's classes that use (and I mean "use", not just "can wear", so no dress-clad tanks) more than one type of armor, they ought to be able to utilize those types, cosmetically if nothing else.

Otherwise, what's the point of making hunter/shaman leather and warrior/paladin mail at all, if it is made useless before you even leave the old world?

[Lisaara]

If you cater to one, you must cater to all, and that wouldn't work. I wish I could mog some cloth stuff but I can't on my druid.

[Chimera]

Hey, druids, rogues, and death knights all only use one armor type, too, not just casters, and I've never heard of anyone feeling sorry for them.

I'm just saying, if there's classes that use (and I mean "use", not just "can wear", so no dress-clad tanks) more than one type of armor, they ought to be able to utilize those types, cosmetically if nothing else.

Otherwise, what's the point of making hunter/shaman leather and warrior/paladin mail at all, if it is made useless before you even leave the old world?

Rogues/Druids. They only benefit from leather.
Hunter/Shamans. They only benefit from leather until lvl 40.
Warriors/Paladins. They only benefit from mail till lvl 40.
Mage/Priest/Warlock. They can ONLY use cloth.

Rogues/Druids. They only ever benefit from leather. Ever.
Hunters/Shamans. They only ever benefit from mail after lvl 40. Ever. But they can transmog the Warrior/Paladin gear from below lvl 40.
Warriors/Paladins/Death Knights. They only ever benefit from plate after lvl 40. Ever.
Mage/Priest/Warlock. They can still ONLY ever use cloth. Nothing else. Ever. Cant use any other armor type.

Its not fair to the cloth users to let everyone who can wear different armor types (plate/mail/leather/cloth) to be able to mog those other types when the cloth users are stuck with only cloth. Frankly id feel like it would be a huge slap in the face to cloth users by Blizz if they did that. Blizz has also made it clear for a very long time that you are supposed to wear the armor type that is the maximum upgrade and avoid types that are below that. So how does this:

I'm just saying, if there's classes that use (and I mean "use", not just "can wear", so no dress-clad tanks) more than one type of armor, they ought to be able to utilize those types, cosmetically if nothing else.

work? They dont use the lower qualities of armor anymore, so its no longer a 'use' but rather a 'can wear'.

Hey, druids, rogues, and death knights all only use one armor type, too, not just casters, and I've never heard of anyone feeling sorry for them.

They all can use other armor types, just none are any good to them as with ALL classes that have a maximum armor type. Death Knights can wear all armor types but only use plate. Rogues/Druids use leather only but can wear cloth.

The logic.. i cant find any.. no research at all went into the post i feel. Its all very biased and one-sided.

[Holgarr]

They all can use other armor types, just none are any good to them as with ALL classes that have a maximum armor type. Death Knights can wear all armor types but only use plate. Rogues/Druids use leather only but can wear cloth.

Unlike rogues/druids in cloth, or DKs in non-plate, hunters/shamans CAN use (IE, it is what they begin with and what they are designed around, not simply what they are capable of wearing) leather and warriors/paladin CAN use mail.

The fact they stop wearing it as they level-up is beside the point - it was, at some point, useful. Contrarily, cloth is never useful to a rogue, for example, nor is mail ever useful to a DK.

I'm not asking for post-40 leather to be itemized for hunters/shaman, nor do I ask for post-40 mail to be itemized for warriors/paladins. Only that those two classes be allowed transmog access to both types of armor they use. if I want my mail-wearing hunter to go farm up the purple-recolor Shadowcraft leathers from Outland 5-mans to mog for laughs, then I should have that option. If my guildmate's Warrior wants to mog his Gladiator's Battleplate using the Scarlet Mail set he collected ages ago, he should have that option.

I mean, it can't be a class thing you're protesting - I've seen more than a few Rogues wearing recolored Druid stuff, and DKs wearing pally-lookalike gear, and I can't even recall anyone complaining about that, even if gnomes do look ridiculous wearing antlers...

To put it another way, since you seem to be oddly defensive of casters, seeing them as "deficient" in my suggestion here - mages, priests, and warlocks are the only classes in game where EVERYTHING they can wear is usable and valid for transmog. None of the classes I've discussed has that benefit - each one has to say "Man, I loved how that looked when I first wore it, but it's not my armor type now, so I can't use it for transmog."

I'm not asking for plate wearers to be able to mog cloth, or even leather. Because no plate wearer starts with/uses cloth or leather. I ask for this, and this only:

Hunters and Shaman should be able to transmog mail and leather.
Warriors and Paladins should be able to transmog plate and mail.

That's all. No more, no less. They use two armor types during play, so they should not be restricted to one armor type for transmog.

[Sar]

Agreed. Makes no sense that if you find gear while levelling that you love the look of, that you can't use it for xmog after 40 :s

[Lisaara]

Again I say....cater to one, you must cater to all. If you get to have special privs on transmog, I want my druid to have it too for cloth gear.

[peanutbuttercup]

Again I say....cater to one, you must cater to all. If you get to have special privs on transmog, I want my druid to have it too for cloth gear.

I have to agree with this. I would love to be able to transmog leather or mail (and cloth and plate) on my hunters, for example. But then I'd want my lock get at least two types of armor to choose from as well.

The fact they stop wearing it as they level-up is beside the point - it was, at some point, useful. Contrarily, cloth is never useful to a rogue, for example, nor is mail ever useful to a DK.

Also wanted to touch on this. Back before they put in armor type prioritization (i.e. hunters in mail get extra agility boost) it was not uncommon for let's say a holy paladin to wear leather or even cloth as a BIS piece. So shouldn't a holy pally then be allowed to transmog that, because at one point it was a valid piece of gear that they were using?

[Holgarr]

I don't understand why there's so much protest here.

If anything, you should complain that casters can transmog everything they can wear, since they only wear cloth, meaning anything they can wear, they can use the look of. My hunter can wear cloth and leather, but can only transmog mail. My paladin can wear everything, but can only transmog plate.

Really, casters have the best setup, regarding transmog - nothing is unusable.


I ask for this, and this only:

Hunters and Shaman should be able to transmog mail and leather.
Warriors and Paladins should be able to transmog plate and mail.

That's all. No more, no less. They use two armor types during play, so they should not be restricted to one armor type for transmog.

[Makoes]

I don't see why they just don't get rid of the armor change completely. Why have shammys/hunter wearing leather at all? why have warriors/pallies wearing mail at all? why cant they wear their proper armor type from level 1? Would also fix the low level gear issues (ie a lv 40 druid/rogue loosing a leather pants upgrade to a lv 39 hunter/shammy)

Fixing that issue would be a lot better then messing what can be mogged to what.

[Sigrah]

I don't see why they just don't get rid of the armor change completely. Why have shammys/hunter wearing leather at all? why have warriors/pallies wearing mail at all? why cant they wear their proper armor type from level 1? Would also fix the low level gear issues (ie a lv 40 druid/rogue loosing a leather pants upgrade to a lv 39 hunter/shammy)

Fixing that issue would be a lot better then messing what can be mogged to what.

This is probably the most sensible statement I've read here. I like this idea better than the idea of letting classes that can wear multiple armor types being able to mog their gear from one type to another. It also makes the most sense in that after level 40, you should be wearing your class favored armor, and at 50, you better be if you don't want to take a penalty for not wearing it.

I don't think it'll happen because it would require a lot of work on Blizzard's end to go back and update all the low level armor and also make plate for Paladins and Warriors 1 to 40, but I like it better than the idea of opening a can of worms where some classes get to mog their armor from one type to another while others can't.

[Lisaara]

I don't see why they just don't get rid of the armor change completely. Why have shammys/hunter wearing leather at all? why have warriors/pallies wearing mail at all? why cant they wear their proper armor type from level 1? Would also fix the low level gear issues (ie a lv 40 druid/rogue loosing a leather pants upgrade to a lv 39 hunter/shammy)

Fixing that issue would be a lot better then messing what can be mogged to what.

I agree with this so much. Druids get enough competition with the many rogues out there. I hated losing my druid stuff to hunters at level 39.

Rather than catering to only 2 classes that change out of 11.

[Holgarr]

Rather than catering to only 2 classes that change out of 11.

Four classes out of eleven, which is slightly less than half.

[Lisaara]

Rather than catering to only 2 classes that change out of 11.

Four classes out of eleven, which is slightly less than half.

Even still, the only two I've seen you mention is shaman and hunter and again is in the minority.

[Holgarr]

Rather than catering to only 2 classes that change out of 11.

Four classes out of eleven, which is slightly less than half.

Even still, the only two I've seen you mention is shaman and hunter and again is in the minority.

I've mentioned, repeatedly, Shaman, Hunter, Warrior, and Paladin. I just focused on the leather-to-mail (Shaman and Hunter) rather than the mail-to-plate (Warrior and Paladin) because this is primarily a Hunter forum.

And if you want to argue minorities, there's fewer cloth-only classes than armor-upgrading ones, and even fewer leather-only classes than that (well, until Monks show up, then they're equal), and not one person thinks ANY of them is getting unfair mogging treatments, while I've heard more than once about the four armor-changers getting the short end of the stick from only getting to use half their gear for mogging..

Frankly, the only argument I'm seeing against the concept is "we don't change armor types, so the classes that do change shouldn't get to use their types because I say so."

I mean really, are you afraid your druid is going to lose a leather roll to a Hunter wanting a mog? Rogues already do that, and vice versa - and soon Monks will join you in that quarrel - and I've yet to see anyone protesting about that. Ditto for all three clothie classes trading their robes around like gradeschoolers discovering dress-up games.

Hell, Hunters can swap around guns, bows, and crossbows in whatever blend they wish and I've not heard one damn breath spoken against the idea from day one. Really, how is that any different from what I'm proposing at all?

Seriously, I have yet to hear one solid and objective reason why this should not be implemented.

[Makoes]

Do you think that classes that change armor types while leveling (hunters and shamans going from leather to mail, warriors and paladins going from mail to plate) should be allowed to transmog both types they use?

For example, a plate-wearing Paladin mogging his outfit using mail gear, or a mail-clad hunter mogging with leather?

you asked for peoples opinions on the idea, and now you bite the people who's opinions don't match yours?

As for the bow/gun/Xbow...considering that hunters can only (now) use 3 types of weapons as opposed to the plethora of other classes (both main and off-hand)...yes, allowing cross mogging of ranged weapons does make sense.

As for you initial question. NO, I don't think that plate should be able to mog to mail, or mail to leather, look at the damn wow economy and players and tell me honestly that that would NOT open a huge can of griefing! There is already enough issues caused by classes (as have been stated in prior posts) taking loot that they can only use for one or two more levels before getting a better armor type.
There is a difference between a druid loosing a roll to a rogue as opposed to losing it to a hunter (around the lv 40 bracket) Truth is that Each and every class wears only ONE type of armor past the lv 40 mark, and still one one type of armor before that! In fact, the warlocks, mages, priests, druids, rogues (and later monks) are the lucky ones because they don't have to really worry about making sure they get the right armor types at lv 40, by then, they already have it (and access to it!). Mail and plate wears have to essentially re-gear at lv 40 to a different type completely!
And then with armor specialization, it was an added incentive to make sure that classes wear actually wearing what they were suppose to wear.

Seriously, I have yet to hear one solid and objective reason why this should not be implemented.

As has been stated already...
If you throw in letting classes cross mog armor types...EVERYONE suffers for it because people WILL take gear away from players who actually NEED that gear type for no other reason then "it looks neat".
and again, since only ONE class actively uses ranged weapons...there isn't an added issue there.

[SpiritBinder]

Just my 2 cents, but personally I like the idea of hunters having access to leather for mog purposes, even if it does come from a mildly selfish direction. The fact that it once was the only thing we were able to equip does make a little sense, and also think the..

"Hunters and Shaman should be able to transmog mail and leather.
Warriors and Paladins should be able to transmog plate and mail."

..is a rather clean, methodical and unbias way of looking at it, with a method and a reason to it. (not just "I wants a cloth hoody on my warria now!)

If all was equitable and fair as some are saying, then why are hunters and shaman the only 2 classes that have 2 classes to borrow looks from?

Plate ~ Paladin, Warrior, Death Knight = 3
Mail ~ Hunter, Shaman = 2
Leather ~ Druid, Monk, Rogue =3
Cloth ~ Mage, Priest, Warlock = 3

I know Monks are only being introduced in MOP, but it will still end up being imbalanced and unfair no?

I'm just playing devils advocate here and adding to the discussion, and don't forget, we also know, as they have mentioned before, that they would like to (and intend to?) relax some of the Mog rules in the future.

Those whom are not in agreeance with Wykea in regards to this proposal, how would you propose that they introduce the relaxing of these Mog rules (in which they and mentioned they would like to do)? What are your ideas? (And in particular in reference to Armor, not Weapons)

[SpiritBinder]

As has been stated already...
If you throw in letting classes cross mog armor types...EVERYONE suffers for it because people WILL take gear away from players who actually NEED that gear type for no other reason then "it looks neat".
and again, since only ONE class actively uses ranged weapons...there isn't an added issue there.

That is a fair call to make. If they did intend to relax the rules in regards to cross armor types for mog, they could also implement a new rule in the rolling sequence, similar to that of what the old LFR had. If your in a pug group, you can roll need or greed on what ever you like, how ever if the hunter rolls need on the leather, and the druid rolls need, a simple extra roll for those who's class matches the armor type could then negate the "Ninja" effect.

I know it's a little extra work, but they have the coding and would save a lot of headache in the long run.... anyways, just musing

[Sigrah]

Just my 2 cents, but personally I like the idea of hunters having access to leather for mog purposes, even if it does come from a mildly selfish direction. The fact that it once was the only thing we were able to equip does make a little sense, and also think the..

"Hunters and Shaman should be able to transmog mail and leather.
Warriors and Paladins should be able to transmog plate and mail."

..is a rather clean, methodical and unbias way of looking at it, with a method and a reason to it. (not just "I wants a cloth hoody on my warria now!)

I have to disagree with that. There are plenty of Paladin, Shaman, and Druid Healers/DPS casters that will wear cloth items that have intelligence and/or spirit on it simply because its an upgrade to whatever they are replacing in the pre-level 40 range. Likewise, there are plenty of Paladins and Warriors that will do the same for any leather or cloth piece they find that boosts their strength and/or stamina depending on if they are tanks or melee DPS. And just tonight on my server, there's no shortage of cloth pieces ending in "of the wolf", "of the monkey", and "of the falcon" (all have agility on it), and plenty of leather pieces ending in "of the bear", "of the boar", and "of the gorilla" (all have strength on it). I've seen plenty of lowbies make use of such armor pieces regardless of whether the armor was lighter than their favored armor type.

Because of this, I simply can't see why Hunters, Shamen, Paladins, and Warriors should get special treatment while the other classes that can wear multiple armor types and make use of pieces that boost their primary stats are left out in the cold. The fact that the 4 classes mentioned above change favored armors at level 40 is irrelevant to me, especially when you consider that Rogues, Druids, and Monks can all find equally valid reasons as to why they should be allowed to use the appearances of cloth pieces for their leather armor when it comes to transmogrification. I personally like Makoes idea better: Do away with classes wearing multiple armor types and restrict each class to their favored armor type from Level 1. That way, there's no reason to bother collecting or using armor types that are lighter than your favored armor, and you no longer have any confusion as to what you should be wearing anymore.

I'm just playing devils advocate here and adding to the discussion, and don't forget, we also know, as they have mentioned before, that they would like to (and intend to?) relax some of the Mog rules in the future.

Those whom are not in agreeance with Wykea in regards to this proposal, how would you propose that they introduce the relaxing of these Mog rules (in which they and mentioned they would like to do)? What are your ideas? (And in particular in reference to Armor, not Weapons)

Honestly, I don't have any major beefs with the current transmogrification rules when it comes to the restrictions surrounding armor and weapons. However, there are a few things that I think could be changed to make it better. These are the ones off the top of my head:

- Allow the use of White and Grey quality items for transmogrification purposes. Anything that fits the "silly" description can be excluded, but it would be nice to be able to use some of these items, especially for the low level sets that use a combination of green and white quality items to make a complete set.
- Do away with the main-hand and off-hand restrictions when it comes to most weapons. I get that some weapons can't have this restriction lifted because their graphic only fits one side or the other (mostly amongst the fist weapons), but there's no reason to disallow the appearance of most of these weapons that would appear the same in either hand from being used in either slot.
- Add in a way to transmogrify weapon enchantments from one type to another. That way, we have variety instead of being stuck with either the same old enchantment glow or finding a weapon that hides it.
- Also add in a way to turn off the graphical effects from weapon enchantments. There are times where you just don't want to see it at all, or where it displays poorly on a weapon.

Beyond the stuff I mentioned above, I can't think of any rules that are too strict or harsh. There are some specific items I would like to see usable for transmogrification, such as the Twilight Cultist armor pieces and a few holiday clothing pieces, but those are outside the rules discussion.