Lore Bosses:How many times will we have to kill them?

[cowmuflage]

Im not freaking out about the old instances become H im glad for it! i have all ways wanted WC to be a H but SFK and Deadmines will have to do for me for now.

[Dulanie]

This makes me wonder if Blizz is going to take the "LFM 40 man Hogger raid" jokes to the next level and have Hogger return as an instance boss or "world raid" boss like The world dragons, or some of the other big baddies that took a big group and good co-ordination to beat.

[Palladiamorsdeus]

*Raises an eyebrow* I don't really see anyone getting huffy or freaking out over anything. We are discussing it, and some of us find it annoying, but that's a long way from huffy.

You also seem to be missing the point entirely. Actually, no, you seem to be getting the point, but getting it in the way that Blizzard WANTS you to get it. You're getting excited about Blizzard recycling old bosses and content. You're happy to see the old familiar faces being put back in. Which is exactly why they are doing it. It's a nostalgia factor, and it's something that you know about, and something you can relate to. Ony and Nef will be well within more peoples range this time, and that's something that they KNOW will attract players, both old and new. It isn't a new ploy, it's been around for a long time now. Go back and read what I said about soap operas and comic books, it's just Blizzard trying an old trick.

It's annoying to me because I feel like they are skimping out on development. They are taking old bosses and reskinning them, and doing it for recognition sake. It's a good trick, sure, but I'd rather see other bad guys rise in the place of Onyxia and Nefarian. I'm actually kind of glad, on the other hand, that Van Cleef is actually getting some respect. He was always one of those lore characters that kind of got shafted. That being said, I still hope they don't skimp out on developing new instances or bad guys for players.

Also, the whole Hogger thing needs to die. Like last year.

[cowmuflage]

Well they have not made a 40man since TBC so i don't think so would be fun tho. I think its good there bring back old bosses as i don't like the ones in WOTLK.

[Senna-Umbreon]

*Raises an eyebrow* I don't really see anyone getting huffy or freaking out over anything. We are discussing it, and some of us find it annoying, but that's a long way from huffy.

You also seem to be missing the point entirely. Actually, no, you seem to be getting the point, but getting it in the way that Blizzard WANTS you to get it. You're getting excited about Blizzard recycling old bosses and content. You're happy to see the old familiar faces being put back in. Which is exactly why they are doing it. It's a nostalgia factor, and it's something that you know about, and something you can relate to. Ony and Nef will be well within more peoples range this time, and that's something that they KNOW will attract players, both old and new. It isn't a new ploy, it's been around for a long time now. Go back and read what I said about soap operas and comic books, it's just Blizzard trying an old trick.

It's annoying to me because I feel like they are skimping out on development. They are taking old bosses and reskinning them, and doing it for recognition sake. It's a good trick, sure, but I'd rather see other bad guys rise in the place of Onyxia and Nefarian. I'm actually kind of glad, on the other hand, that Van Cleef is actually getting some respect. He was always one of those lore characters that kind of got shafted. That being said, I still hope they don't skimp out on developing new instances or bad guys for players.

Also, the whole Hogger thing needs to die. Like last year.

Now, did I ever say people HERE were getting huffy? No, I didn't.

Yes, it's nothing new, but somehow I don't think it's just for nostalgia reasons, lore wise, it makes sense anyway. Killing two birds with one stone, way to go Blizz. And heck yes am I excited for Ony and Nef's return, but not for the reasons you stated; I've always been a giant fan of the Black Dragonflight, even back when I first started playing! Heh, blame my best friend for getting me into the game then us going on a giant adventure on WoWWiki trying to figure out where Deathwing was. Not to mention us being giant fangirls of both Ony and Nef.

Aaanywho, I don't see how new bosses taking the place on Ony and Nef would work, considering their ties to Deathwing, why make new bad guys when there already are two that would suit the lore perfectly and would be totally awesome to bring back? And besides, we're gonna have loads of new bosses anyway, why bother getting so upset over two bosses? Besides, this IS only alpha, so you never know, undead Ony may not even go live, it may just be an idea that Blizz randomly had. Concept ideas!

[Palladiamorsdeus]

You never SPECIFIED, and since you are here, it's only natural for people here to think you are talking about them.

As for lore wise, are you being serious? We KILLED THEM. They've been killed and dead in lore for a while now. It does NOT make sense to bring them back. It's just another "Hey, I know you!" point. I never said it was a bad idea, it just annoys me.

And again, it isn't that hard to create or bring in other lore characters to fill in the holes, instead of using major lore figures all over again. We already dealt with the whole re-raising of long dead dragons with Arthas, and now we get to do it again?

You make a lot of assumptions, by the way. Maybe you are once again not talking about this thread, but I don't really see anyone getting upset. It's kind of annoying to see stuff being recycled, but I said that already. And the whole depressing thing was just me cracking a joke.

[Senna-Umbreon]

Lore wise, it DOES make sense to bring Ony and Nef back. Besides, WE didn't even kill Ony in the lore, Varian (Gah I hate him so much) killed her. But yes, it does make sense to bring them back seeing as their FATHER is the main focus of Cataclysm.

Again, why should Blizzard create new bad guys to replace Deathwing's infamous children? We're getting a LOT of new bosses anyway, I see no problem with "reusing" TWO bosses, especially ones that are related to Deathwing.

And assumptions? I was actually talking about this thread when I mentioned people getting upset over the whole thing. And to be honest, I was talking about you specifically, as you seem to be quite upset about all of this.

[cowmuflage]

oh um lore wise Nef did not truely die in black wing lair the black flight was just saying he did. He did the same thing his dad did fake his own death. Those black drakes are good at that.

[Saturo]

Short post below:

Better to reuse old and beloved characters than just implementing new ones.
For example:
"Hi, I'm an old lore character that died, and then I was brought back again to fight for my father, since I was his most powerful child."
"Hi, I'm a completely new character. There has never been any clue to my existence earlier, and I was only conceived to act as a boss in one raid. Sometimes lore contradicts me, but that's ok, because I hardly have any lore associated with me at all."

[Palladiamorsdeus]

*Chuckles* Touche, Saturo.

[Saturo]

Basically, what I'm trying to get across is that I think it's better to have a smaller bunch of "core" characters, than an ever growing amount of characters, with usually bad background infgormation. I'm just too sleepy to put it in a nice fashion...

[Palladiamorsdeus]

No, it made sense. I disagree, mind you, I don't like the whole reviving of old characters just for recognition sake, but I do understand what you are saying.

[Kayb]

yes, it's already been stated that SFK won't have the same mobs/characters for the heroic, it's story will also have progressed. I imagine the same will be true for deadmines

as far as all these lore bosses go, none of them are officially dead unless killed by a major Blizz character. they're not going to pick out a specific player across all those servers and say that it was them who killed Arthas now are they?

theres plenty of lore bosses i doubt we're ever gonna see again. illidan and arthas are just two. the lvl 80 rehash of Onyxia as I heard it doesn't actually have anything in lore, it was just done as an extra treat for players. so i would say that yes, she did infact get killed off, and come cata, will be risen as an undead. by whom we don't know yet obviously, but you can bet her daddy has a play in it

i'm more interested in watching all these potential super bads develop, there are a couple in waiting that could explode into major bad guys for the lore

[Noba]

I think its fun to occasionally bring a few old baddies back into the spotlight. However I do agree that it could get dull if they go overboard and do tons of that, without creating enough that is new and interesting.
At least they are not on a "kids kick" to any major extent. That is what I hate most in book series and movies. As soon as the focus switches to the old character's new kids, it is like the original characters you once liked become emotionless ghosts devoid of any personality they once had in previous books.

In other news, 6 of the squirrels who have been killed during Wrath of the Lich King are being revived by Deathwing, in a dungeon near the Worgen starting area.

[Ryai]

okay so blizzard has a recurring theme of reviving lore characters just so we or another lore character can kill them again
for example onyxia was killed by players then blizzard went back and revived her for varian to kill in the comic and then she was revived again as an 8o for the 5th anniversary.
but what do you think is happening in cataclysm?
That's right shes back again!
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/ima ... undead.jpg

You do realize when she was rezzed for the anniversary it WASNT breaking lore as she is STILL dead, blizzard did it because people were QQing so much for 'hard mode Ony' and wanted to reward people. So we got harde mode Ony, an Onyxian whelp AND A 310 MOUNT.

I want that damn thing.


But seriously look at Neltharion[?]/Nelfarion[?] Do you honestly think he'd let his children continue to rot away in the lands of humans and orcs? I can seriously see him or his minions raiding, probably minions, stealing away the rotting skulls of his slain children. Mean we're dealing with a bloody insane dragon who wants to blow up the rest of the world.

Quoting Palla;

As for lore wise, are you being serious? We KILLED THEM. They've been killed and dead in lore for a while now. It does NOT make sense to bring them back. It's just another "Hey, I know you!" point. I never said it was a bad idea, it just annoys me.

Which would you rather have.

Dead zombie dragons.

Deathwing breaking all lore as we know it, actually reproducing with a black dragon- when it's been proven he killed all consorts by coupling alone EXCEPT for one. And she STILL bears the scars. Well she would but she's dead.

Dead Zombie Dragons sound better. I mean Deathwing letting his children rot? No no no no. It sounds like he ripped them asunder from their eternal resting places, forcing them to work for him, punishing them for their failures upon the black flight. For failing to be the next flight leader[well he was 'dead'] or brood mother.

Though to be honest this always made me think the two had a thing going on and all blacks from Ony were incest babies. Bleh.

And again, it isn't that hard to create or bring in other lore characters to fill in the holes, instead of using major lore figures all over again. We already dealt with the whole re-raising of long dead dragons with Arthas, and now we get to do it again?

Who Palla; who would Deathwing use or abuse? And besides does it really matter? We're talking about a game that's thrashing SFK history for Arugal, making him out atm as an anti hero. Tarnishing Worgens as mutinagenic Werewolves that carry a curse when up until Cata there was never any sign of that.

Tbh I think we're safer with zombie dragons.

It's annoying to me because I feel like they are skimping out on development. They are taking old bosses and reskinning them, and doing it for recognition sake. It's a good trick, sure, but I'd rather see other bad guys rise in the place of Onyxia and Nefarian.

Tbh they really aren't- I mean think about it. Deathwing is such a sick, twisted, sadistic bastard that if he isn't rezzing his children to punish them; he's ressurected them to prove his superiority of the black flight/his bloodline/himself AND to kill challengers with the very dragons they had once defeated.

How grueling would it be to be destroyed by a zombie of a creature you so casually killed and grinded for several years?

I'll tell ya mate.

It's as pathetic as being killed by the murloc in WC when Paletress summons him.

[Palladiamorsdeus]

That's what I am afraid of, Noba. One or three are fine, but are we going to just see all of the old raid bosses ressurected?

[Kayb]

mmm 6 undead squirrels? awesome, i hope they throw flaming acorns!

[Chrizesu]

This makes me wonder if Blizz is going to take the "LFM 40 man Hogger raid" jokes to the next level and have Hogger return as an instance boss or "world raid" boss like The world dragons, or some of the other big baddies that took a big group and good co-ordination to beat.

That would be awesome.

[Ryno]

MAGISTER'S TERRACE WAS MERELY A SET BACK!!

[Zangor]

VARIAN WRYNN WAS MERELY A SETBACK!!!!!!

hows that?