Patch 5.4 Trailer *Released*

[Silivren]

Well yeah, but it's not like Cairne started the whole thing anyways. Of course he doesn't feel remorse. It was made quite clear it was a battle to the death. Hell, Garrosh wanted to give Cairne a way out but Cairne kept pestering Garrosh until it came down to a battle to the death. And of course he's upset about it being dishonorable--Cairne, if he had to die, deserved an honorable death, not a death by poison.

^ That's the way I remember it too. I feel bad for Garrosh, not for the way he's acted but for the way he's been written. He makes a fantastic villain but I feel he could have made a great hero too, that is, if they'd let him.

Garrosh WAS having a turn around in Cataclysm and then they ripped it right out from under him. Yes, I don't like him, I wish I could have grown to like him though.

[Lisaara]

Well yeah, but it's not like Cairne started the whole thing anyways. Of course he doesn't feel remorse. It was made quite clear it was a battle to the death. Hell, Garrosh wanted to give Cairne a way out but Cairne kept pestering Garrosh until it came down to a battle to the death. And of course he's upset about it being dishonorable--Cairne, if he had to die, deserved an honorable death, not a death by poison.

Actually, yes he did. Cairne is the one that initiated the challenge cause he didn't feel Garrosh was fit to lead.

That's if you're speaking of the fight between them. Garrosh accepted the challenge.

[cowmuflage]

You know if they had written him better Garrosh could of been a really good hero. Sometimes heros start off doing bad things.

Still he is one of my fave leaders of all time. I don't like most of the leaders in game. (hell I can't stand any of the ally ones for a start >.<)

[Shay]

This wow trailer is definitely one of the best ones I have seen along with Ulduar and Icecrown.

[Bangeall]

^ That's the way I remember it too. I feel bad for Garrosh, not for the way he's acted but for the way he's been written. He makes a fantastic villain but I feel he could have made a great hero too, that is, if they'd let him.

Garrosh WAS having a turn around in Cataclysm and then they ripped it right out from under him. Yes, I don't like him, I wish I could have grown to like him though.

I really agree with this. He could have been an excellent morally ambiguous hero - he wanted what was best for his people, and he was prepared to cross certain lines to get it - but it seems morally ambiguous heroes in WoW don't tend to stay that way for long. Instead of developing him as a character with a bit more complexity, he's now just a straight-up bad guy.

Still, I don't actually hate him. He does make quite a good villain. I hate Varian, and the fact that when other Alliance racial leaders finally got some attention in MoP, they were run down just to make him look better. I love Garrosh compared to how much I hate Varian. I haven't got a Horde character up to 90 yet, but hopefully poor old Lor'themar came away better than they did.

[Lisaara]

^ That's the way I remember it too. I feel bad for Garrosh, not for the way he's acted but for the way he's been written. He makes a fantastic villain but I feel he could have made a great hero too, that is, if they'd let him.

Garrosh WAS having a turn around in Cataclysm and then they ripped it right out from under him. Yes, I don't like him, I wish I could have grown to like him though.

I really agree with this. He could have been an excellent morally ambiguous hero - he wanted what was best for his people, and he was prepared to cross certain lines to get it - but it seems morally ambiguous heroes in WoW don't tend to stay that way for long. Instead of developing him as a character with a bit more complexity, he's now just a straight-up bad guy.

Still, I don't actually hate him. He does make quite a good villain. I hate Varian, and the fact that when other Alliance racial leaders finally got some attention in MoP, they were run down just to make him look better. I love Garrosh compared to how much I hate Varian. I haven't got a Horde character up to 90 yet, but hopefully poor old Lor'themar came away better than they did.

By 'Alliance leaders', you must mean Tyrande. Not to burst anyones bubble but Tyrande was ALWAYS like that. Brash and impatient. Malfurion has chided her on it many times in Warcraft III. I'm glad they showed how she really was once again cause everyone was getting this fake image that she was perfect when she was far from it.

[Bangeall]

I was thinking of the Council of Three Hammers also, in the 'Blood in the Snow' scenario. I think there is so much potential for interesting lore there, but of course Varian has to wade in, and there's really not much insight there. The gripe I have with their portrayal of Tyrande wasn't that they were showing her as being a flawed character, and I am more than willing to acknowledge that she is. My problem is that in a comparison, she came off as worse than Varian, of all people. It's the portrayal of his character that bothers me. I just wish that one of the other racial leaders would get a share of the limelight without him for once. Or that Velen or Mekkatoque would any attention at all.

[Azunara]

Well yeah, but it's not like Cairne started the whole thing anyways. Of course he doesn't feel remorse. It was made quite clear it was a battle to the death. Hell, Garrosh wanted to give Cairne a way out but Cairne kept pestering Garrosh until it came down to a battle to the death. And of course he's upset about it being dishonorable--Cairne, if he had to die, deserved an honorable death, not a death by poison.

Actually, yes he did. Cairne is the one that initiated the challenge cause he didn't feel Garrosh was fit to lead.

That's if you're speaking of the fight between them. Garrosh accepted the challenge.

Sorry, I didn't make my point clear. I was trying to say that yes, Cairne did start the whole thing. But no, from what I was informed, essentially Cairne stormed in, threw a hissy fit, smacked Garrosh, and then was like "Bring it." So Garrosh didn't exactly have a choice one way or another. It was impossible to back down. And yeah, it was totally Cairne who started it.

whoo that was rambly

[Danielfboone]

I thought the trailer was amazing. One of the best they've done. However, being dedicated to the Alliance, I never thought of Garrosh as anything but a villain and a potential traitor even to his own people. I have always said that Thrall is the only good Orc and I don't understand the hate directed towards Varian at all. I like the guy .

My favorite Horde leader was always Sylvanas until she went kind of nuts. Now it has to be Vol'Jin even though I don't trust the Trolls either. The Goblins remind me of the Ferengi from Star Trek.

[Lisaara]

Well yeah, but it's not like Cairne started the whole thing anyways. Of course he doesn't feel remorse. It was made quite clear it was a battle to the death. Hell, Garrosh wanted to give Cairne a way out but Cairne kept pestering Garrosh until it came down to a battle to the death. And of course he's upset about it being dishonorable--Cairne, if he had to die, deserved an honorable death, not a death by poison.

Actually, yes he did. Cairne is the one that initiated the challenge cause he didn't feel Garrosh was fit to lead.

That's if you're speaking of the fight between them. Garrosh accepted the challenge.

Sorry, I didn't make my point clear. I was trying to say that yes, Cairne did start the whole thing. But no, from what I was informed, essentially Cairne stormed in, threw a hissy fit, smacked Garrosh, and then was like "Bring it." So Garrosh didn't exactly have a choice one way or another. It was impossible to back down. And yeah, it was totally Cairne who started it.

whoo that was rambly

Oooh. Hehe. Yeah. He pretty much did that. Then the old crone from the Grimtotems decided to rig the fight without Garrosh' knowing.