/sigh... Arpen and spreadsheets.

[Suicune]

So I use spreadsheets to make sure I am doing the best thing for my DPS. I check armories, inspect people, and do tons of research. I know the Arpen softcap is less for BM hunters than MM, which is my secondary spec. I am gemmed agil for MM, and was gathering my gear up to hopefully get to the point of being able to gem Arpen. I got rid of all my non exotics save for Gezzerak, whom I can't really raid with, so I am locked into BM for the most part, and am perfectly fine with that. The thing I am not fine with is the problem that has me stumped, and anyone I talk to- regemming full Arpen will be a DPS loss for me. I was a bit under the softcap for BM, but figured, eh, what the hell, and when I first ran it through, it was only a 2.4 or something upgrade- not worth the money or time to regem.

I made my Rock-Steady Treads today, and when I compared agil vs Arpen, the Arpen came out on top by a little, so I went with that since it was fresh sockets. When I played with the gems in the spread more, the agil game out higher by a little than Arpen every time in every lot except the boots. I did get confused, however, because in one run, the spread showed my high lvl items (Onslaught Cloak, Sanctified gloves, but oddly not Longstrider's Vest) having the arpen gem as a slight upgrade, and then when I tried again later, a DPS loss...

I did the math, and by my train of thought, by gemming full Arpen, minus the meta/Nightmare Tear, would bring me almost to the Arpen hard cap when NES procs, which is what we want, ideally, at least from the media I read. My guildmate told me to try Rawr, and see the results. I like the interface, and at first it showed the Arpen as an upgrade, once I applied the raid buffs, or so it seemed, the Arpen was a downgrade. It still suggested Arpen gemmed gear as my upgrades, so I don't understand why my estimated DPS went down (even if only a few points).

I would swap the gems in my good gear if it was an upgrade, but it just wasn't showing that way. I don't know if I am missing something or not. Any help? Hope it's not something blindingly obvious...

Edit-- armory link:
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... cn=Suicune

[Slickrock]

It's hard to calculate really. I use the spreadsheet at FemaleDwarf, and to be honest, the point where it's better is really fuzzy.

What I'm doing is just putting Arp in my BiS or near-BiS gear that I won't likely be able to upgrade soon, and not worrying about it. The dps gain is minimal near the cross-over, so don't worry about it.

Also remember that the raid buffs don't buff Arp, while they can increase your Agi, that's why you are seeing Arp as a downgrade with raid buffs. You need a sizeable amount to overcome that crossover.

[Suicune]

Yeh, that's the spread I use as well. I think I'll just suck it up and do the same as you, since it can't be a terrible idea.
I didn't even think of that- because it did go up when I applied the Arpen/intel elixir, but down when I applied the others and swapped gems.

[Adam-Savage]

Arpen is overrated by far. On Female Dwarf it always shows a very slight dps gain but nothing much at all. I found that agility was a better dps gain as it gave attack power and crit rating. So when u gem for Arpen your loosing attack power and a bunch of crit rating.

[Slickrock]

Arpen is overrated by far. On Female Dwarf it always shows a very slight dps gain but nothing much at all. I found that agility was a better dps gain as it gave attack power and crit rating. So when u gem for Arpen your loosing attack power and a bunch of crit rating.

Yeah, I have even been thinking about going back to a pure Agi setup until I have enough passive Arp from gear to really push it over the top. (and gemming Agi gives the chance to play with a SV spec).

[Dulanie]

I am not worried about ArP that much especially considering it will be gone in Cata. Though I wonder what they'll do with all the gear/gems/chants that have ArP one them.

[Anansi]

As stated quite frequently, ArPen scales exponentially, that is, the more you have of it, the more each point is worth. If you only gem a little bit for ArPen, you won't get a lot of gain, but the more you gem the stat the more each point helps the next. So mixing ArPen and Agility will not help you, it's best to pick one and go all out.

Don't rely on the NES proc for reaching your ArPen cap as the proc is too unreliable. For ArPen to really function properly it needs to be a static amount. For example, that ArPen proc isn't going to help you much if your next shot is Arcane Shot, and you want a stable ArPen so your Auto Shots are always taking advantage of the stat.

I know BM can go for a full ArPen build much earlier than Marksmanship, but I'm not entirely certain what the parameters are, but something tells me that once you have around 400 static ArPen you could consider going full ArPen gemming. But I would research that before making a costly change. Remember too that ArPen does not transfer to your pet unlike AP.

To address the losses in going from AGI to ArPen, it takes about 14 AP points to equal 1 DPS, so there's no appreciable DPS loss there, and you'd lose roughly 1% Crit which isn't huge if you're getting a comprehensive gain from the ArPen.

As for what ArPen is being converted to in Cataclysm, I believe it's changing to Haste and/or Crit so your ArPen gems will convert to something useful if you decide to gem it now. Personally, I'm still stacking AGI on my Hunter and I don't think I'll bother making the change. I've decided to pretty much stick with 10 man raiding so my ArPen is not likely to reach the point where I'd get appreciable gain for transitioning from AGI to ArPen.

Oh, Rawr is not a very reliable source for assessing your builds. You're best to use a combination of either Shandara's spreadsheet or Zeherah's on-line sheet at femaledwarf.com and Simcraft.

[Chrizesu]

I wouldn't worry about it till you have about 50% crit.

[Suicune]

I had used the spreadsheet and Rawr and they both said the same thing, really, but femaledwarf is my go to before anything. That's why I gemmed the Arpen in new boots because it showed as a little more of an upgrade than if I were to gem agility. If they were already gemmed I wouldn't have even bothered. I guess I will just play things by ear and if any new gear I get show as an upgrade with diff gems than agil, I will use them. Thanks for the input guys

Edit because of a post made while I was posting- I have 53% crit.